APA equipment really puts the "Amature" in APA

[cardiac kid]

we play on the table WE are on... if I can adjust and you cannot... I deserve to win...so you adapt to the table that you are on... or ... you LOSE...simple as that...

In a perfect world, you're correct. When playing with the "big" weighted ball I change my routes to attempt to take the "rolls" into account. Sometimes that just isn't possible. Sometimes you must play "precision" position. LOL with the big weighted ball. Who wins comes down to who get one less bad roll. Not who deserves to win.

Lyn

 

[Cornerman]

Softshot,

Explain to me how you make the heavy ball move along the tangent line?

If you asked 256 of them if they would mind swapping in a heavy bar ball for their match, how many do you think would be ok with it?

Kerry, after all the posts, I'm still completely befuddled. That cueball isn't heavier. So, I'm confused. That green aramith logo cueball has been measured and weighed by many people. It's not heavy. Mine happens to weigh 5.8 oz. The tolerance allowed is 5.5 - 6.0 oz. If you weigh all your object balls, you'll see they are all in that 5.7 - 5.9 range when new.

From previous measurements:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/ce31cc21103cc5da?dmode=source

Red Circle 5.9 oz
Blue Circle 5.9 oz
Aramith Logo 5.9 oz
Aramith "pro cup" (red "polka-dot" ball) 5.8 oz

and

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/ab60251c1beb722a?dmode=source

So, even the Red Circle (a real one, not a fake one) is the same weight as the rest of the balls. Some (Tate) have reported at even slightly heavier by a tenth of a gram. The Red Circle we've found out from Saluc (Aramith) is made from a different resin than the other cueballs. It might be why it's livelier. But, the Aramith Logo (green) is the same weight as the other cueballs.

Fred

 

[cardiac kid]

I never here the winners coplaining about the QB. Johnnyt

You obviously weren't at the ACS event. I heard Tony Mougey complaining even as he won the Master event. We were second in the 9 ball and 5/6 in the eight. The teams that won were no different than Tony. From time to time, everyone complained a bit about the conditions!

Lyn

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I don't play in pool leagues, but I do agree you should have good equipment at a national level tournament.

However, I question the logic made in some of the posts. Many of the players in APA are bar room hacks. To say they're providing a green aramith ball because "that's what they're used to playing with" is simply insane. 90% of the APA players have no clue how balls play. They think they know, but they really don't.

Here's a good proposition bet: Take 5 brand new cue balls, all unmarked, and take 5 random APA players. Tell them to pick out the "super aramith" out of the bunch. Good luck. It's like a hack golfer saying they need XYZ brand because it feels better. In the meantime, they can't break 100 and don't even know what feel is. It's nonsense.


Thanks Cornerman for proving my point.

 

[chefjeff]

The APA does not care about a qball. It a business. Money making racket for the operators & head office. Heard em in take their money & heard em out. Just that simple.

They're very good at herding them in....and this thread shows that once a player gets good, the APA is also good at herding them out.

That's its function, imho, and it is a necessary one. It is the first rung on the ladder, so to speak.

My suggestion is to step up a rung or two.

Jeff Livingston

 

[cardiac kid]

Kerry, after all the posts, I'm still completely befuddled. That cueball isn't heavier. So, I'm confused. That green aramith logo cueball has been measured and weighed by many people. It's not heavy. Mine happens to weigh 5.8 oz. The tolerance allowed is 5.5 - 6.0 oz. If you weigh all your object balls, you'll see they are all in that 5.7 - 5.9 range when new.Fred

Fred,

I believe most of the problem with the wieghted magnetic cue balls we play with is the weights eventually break free, come loose, what ever you wish to call it. I don't have any problems with a good weighted ball such as the green dot aramith which has the magnetic material mixed into the "batter". Different weight cue balls are like jumping from Simonis 860 to the cheap cloth used on most barroom bar boxes. You get used to it. One or two racks at the most. Its just a different condition. The solid weighted cue ball with the weight loose is a different story. Add in the "big" weighted cue ball and that's another story entirely! The problem in Vegas was I counted three diffferent cue balls in use. Wouldn't it be nicer just to use the cue ball that comes with the ball set?

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

They're very good at herding them in....and this thread shows that once a player gets good, the APA is also good at herding them out.

That's its function, imho, and it is a necessary one. It is the first rung on the ladder, so to speak.

My suggestion is to step up a rung or two.

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,

Where do you go? Valley and ACS use the same old tired equipment as the APA in Vegas. At the moment, only BCAPL and TAP use Diamond tables. The TAP is certainly not a step up from APA. Regionally and locally your correct.

Our local BCAPL leagues are growing again because players get tired of the APA after a few years. Way too much sandbagging. No one to really teach them. They may get coached. But not taught! Once they arrive at BCAPL, they find out quickly the difference in levels of play.

Lyn

 

[Cornerman]

Fred,

I believe most of the problem with the wieghted magnetic cue balls we play with is the weights eventually break free, come loose, what ever you wish to call it. I don't have any problems with a good weighted ball such as the green dot aramith which has the magnetic material mixed into the "batter".

That's the only one we're really talking about here. The green aramith logo cueball. And it doesn't have the "magnetic material mixed into the batter. The magnet is in the table. There is a thin foil shell that molded/cast onto the cueball. Oh, here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=88923 see "Method 4 - Foiled for the first time.

The problem in Vegas was I counted three diffferent cue balls in use.
Lyn

Now that's a completely different problem. There were different cueballs?

Wouldn't it be nicer just to use the cue ball that comes with the ball set?

Although I know what you mean to say, there are too many people who point to wanting the Red Circle Pro Aramith cueball. That one doesn't come with any set.

Fred

 

[cardiac kid]

Fred,

I stand corrected. Since their inception, I always thought the magnetic material was in the green dot cue ball, Thanks for the ruler across the knuckles! There were two versions of a blue dot. One with a circle around the dot, one without. The green dot and one without a marking. I only said three because I thought the two blue dots were really the same ball. They were the ones taking the big j-hooks and "falling" sideways when nearly stopped. Thanks again.

Lyn

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,

Where do you go? Valley and ACS use the same old tired equipment as the APA in Vegas. At the moment, only BCAPL and TAP use Diamond tables. The TAP is certainly not a step up from APA. Regionally and locally your correct.

Our local BCAPL leagues are growing again because players get tired of the APA after a few years. Way too much sandbagging. No one to really teach them. They may get coached. But not taught! Once they arrive at BCAPL, they find out quickly the difference in levels of play.

Lyn

I don't do Vegas anymore as my teammates are unable to get their sheet together and make the trip. Every year they say, 'let's do Vegas this year' and every year they fail to save money or time for it. I suggested putting $10 a week each into a kitty and use that money for the trip, but they refused to part with that. The same with the state tourney. I'm tired of reserving a hotel room and then they expect me to let them crash it and pay me NOTHING. Hell, the last time, one of them even stole the tip money I put out for the housekeepers...and then he stiffed me for the room.

Last time I was in Vegas for the VNEA was '95 or so.

This may be my last year for these leagues anyway or last year may have been, since my teammates (sic) won't communicate. I'm tired of slugging through the mud just to be on a team. It is soooo easy but my teammates make it sooooo hard.

Jeff Livingston

 

[cardiac kid]

Jeff,

Our local league has one night set aside for the "Free Trip to Vegas". Win the league playoffs and $3000 is yours! The team has to go. No we'll take the money and think about it. For those players who don't want the "pressure", two other nights are set aside for league play strictly for fun. We also have a scotch doubles league set up along the same lines with top prize $1100 for the Vegas trip. If enough teams participate, they have a "luck of the draw" for a second trip in both leagues.

Lyn

 

[Bigkahuna]

Fred,

I believe most of the problem with the wieghted magnetic cue balls we play with is the weights eventually break free, come loose, what ever you wish to call it. I don't have any problems with a good weighted ball such as the green dot aramith which has the magnetic material mixed into the "batter". Different weight cue balls are like jumping from Simonis 860 to the cheap cloth used on most barroom bar boxes. You get used to it. One or two racks at the most. Its just a different condition. The solid weighted cue ball with the weight loose is a different story. Add in the "big" weighted cue ball and that's another story entirely! The problem in Vegas was I counted three diffferent cue balls in use. Wouldn't it be nicer just to use the cue ball that comes with the ball set?

Lyn

They do have a lot of problems with people stealing balls and I was a ref there so I know. I think the vendor that supplies the tables is responsible for the balls and there are a good number of mixed sets of balls out there. The tables in the main tournament room tend to be better. They really should have some good equipment in the Mini Mania room where the Masters, Doubles and other events are played out just in that area. Really with as many people that are there it is kind chaotic and I think the APA really does a pretty good job of putting on a decent event. Of course there are some issues. Really lets get some Diamond tables in there!

 

[Bigkahuna]

Jeff,

Our local league has one night set aside for the "Free Trip to Vegas". Win the league playoffs and $3000 is yours! The team has to go. No we'll take the money and think about it. For those players who don't want the "pressure", two other nights are set aside for league play strictly for fun. We also have a scotch doubles league set up along the same lines with top prize $1100 for the Vegas trip. If enough teams participate, they have a "luck of the draw" for a second trip in both leagues.

Lyn

Lyn,

Do you have an League Operator in Rochester or is the APA running it? I think they were looking for an LO for that area weren't they?

 

[KMRUNOUT]

WOW .. ok here it is black and white...

YOU entered THEIR tourney... YOU were unable to adjust to the conditions and you got BEAT!!!!

how is that their fault?

if you want to live in a bubble and only play on your table with your balls and only play those you deemed worthy... it would be pretty weak


we play on the table WE are on... if I can adjust and you cannot... I deserve to win...

if you have the ability to make every single pool table on planet earth the same... including perfect climate control... so that the balls roll the same every time.. I will support you..

but you can't..

so you adapt to the table that you are on... or ... you LOSE...

simple as that...

Softshot,

Here is a great analogy for you. You are right now playing on a table called "my thread about how I wish a big league like the APA would take their equipment more seriously". You seem to be failing to adjust to those conditions. This is not a thread about who will win given advese conditions. You seem stuck on that. I did NOT get beat. I won my matches in Vegas. Again, you might want to read the whole thread before you start saying things that have already been said and corrected. Please try to get your head around the idea that the topic of this thread is "if you can use better equipment, then why not?". It is as simple as that.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Kerry, after all the posts, I'm still completely befuddled. That cueball isn't heavier. So, I'm confused. That green aramith logo cueball has been measured and weighed by many people. It's not heavy. Mine happens to weigh 5.8 oz. The tolerance allowed is 5.5 - 6.0 oz. If you weigh all your object balls, you'll see they are all in that 5.7 - 5.9 range when new.

From previous measurements:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/ce31cc21103cc5da?dmode=source

Red Circle 5.9 oz
Blue Circle 5.9 oz
Aramith Logo 5.9 oz
Aramith "pro cup" (red "polka-dot" ball) 5.8 oz

and

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/ab60251c1beb722a?dmode=source

So, even the Red Circle (a real one, not a fake one) is the same weight as the rest of the balls. Some (Tate) have reported at even slightly heavier by a tenth of a gram. The Red Circle we've found out from Saluc (Aramith) is made from a different resin than the other cueballs. It might be why it's livelier. But, the Aramith Logo (green) is the same weight as the other cueballs.

Fred

Fred,

Sorry. Your confusion is due to the way this thread sort of went on a tangent. I initially said that the green logo aramtih ball behaved as if it were heavier, and that there was something about it that didn't play right. Several others agreed with this idea. Somehow we got onto talking about playing with the heavy ball (like the red dot Dynamo ball, for example). So I may have responded to some posters comments about that (definitely) heavier ball. If you are still befuddled about whether the green circle ball is different, here is an email reply I received from Aramith:

Thank you for your e.mail.

We are a proud sponsor of the APA Pool League.
Another major sponsor is Valley tables, used by APA in their championships.

Even though the best possible pool set is the Super Aramith Pro-Cup, it makes only sense if the balls provided are suitable for the coin-operated Valley table which needs a magnetic responsive cue ball.

In our opinion, the best magnetic responsive cue ball is the Aramith Tournament cue ball because it is the only one guarantying a perfect balance. Due to the specific layer with metallic particles included, this ball may behave differently and is more sensible to wear and scratches.

Best regards.

ARAMITH - BELGIUM

So there you go, the people that make the ball say it may behave differently. It does. My concern was not specifically with the weight of the ball but rather how it reacts off the rails and how it plays. Try setting up some shots with a standard cue ball and the Green Logo Aramith and see if that helps eliminate some confusion. (Straight in draw shots will not be a good test.)

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

They're very good at herding them in....and this thread shows that once a player gets good, the APA is also good at herding them out.

That's its function, imho, and it is a necessary one. It is the first rung on the ladder, so to speak.

My suggestion is to step up a rung or two.

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,

Thanks for a reply that specifically speaks to the point of this thread. I was saying that if that is the way the APA views itself, it seriously makes me consider ending my membership.

Maybe you're right.

KMRUNOUT

 

[cardiac kid]

Lyn,

Do you have an League Operator in Rochester or is the APA running it? I think they were looking for an LO for that area weren't they?

Sorry, I failed to mention our league is BCAPL. The local APA operator also has a similar plan. A good friend of mine won the local APA trip to the team event last month.

Wow, two errors in one day. Good grief, I'm human:speechless:.

Lyn

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,

Thanks for a reply that specifically speaks to the point of this thread. I was saying that if that is the way the APA views itself, it seriously makes me consider ending my membership.

Maybe you're right.

KMRUNOUT

I lasted one season in APA. It is, to me, like dealing with tax law: no one knows the forumla for handicaps so it is arbitrary and depends on if the LO likes you better than someone else. When I asked for the formula, the LO said look in the rule book. I look in the rule book and it says to ask LO.

I made like 5 8-balls on the break that year and got a "trophy." It was a black ping pong ball on a little piece of wood. Trashed....quit.

Jeff Livingston

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

KMRUNOUT,

This Is My Take On This.......

If You Can't Adjust To Different Conditions, Don't Play In Traveling Leagues, Different Poolrooms, Or National Events.

The Green Dot Is The Best Cueball That Works Properly In A Valley Barbox.

What I'm Surprised By Most........ Is That It Was Some Of The Worst Cloth, And Cloth Installation That I Have Seen, And You're Worried About The CB.

What S/L Are You?

 

[rackem]

APA is a Barbox Pool League

I do not believe that the green logo valley ball is any heavier then the object balls. It will roll much better then the catseye magnetic ball that they use to use. Yes the APA did use the Diamond tables for a few years while the BCA & VNEA still used the Valleys. Now it has flip flopped.
The green logo ball is way better then the off center plug balls they tried a few years back before the diamond tables came out.