APA should be Sanbagging inc. -

You mentioned the big 3, to the best of my knowledge. There is also the Valley leagues and I believe there is one more, but the name escapes me at the moment.
Of course, there are numerous in-house leagues.

It is the leagues that keep some pool rooms afloat.

I never understood why Mr. Lee of USA Billiards in Laurel did not have a league. In that location, his rent was low, but he and his family worked 24/7. That was the "last" of the great pool rooms in our area, IMO. The rest of them are more like bars. I don't enjoy them as much.
 
It is the leagues that keep some pool rooms afloat.

I never understood why Mr. Lee of USA Billiards in Laurel did not have a league. In that location, his rent was low, but he and his family worked 24/7. That was the "last" of the great pool rooms in our area, IMO. The rest of them are more like bars. I don't enjoy them as much.

Jen, the leagues definitely keep many pool rooms in business. We should be sending the leagues thank you notes, not bashing them on the pool forums.

You should check out Big Daddy's Billiards in Glen Burnie. There is no alcohol and good equipment. It is a real pool room.
 
the valley league is one of the best leagues. it doesn't really matter about handicaps so much.

Ironman

BCA, ACS, and Valley in my area are now all Handicrapped Leagues. 8 Ball on the break is no longer a win and scratch on the 8 ball is no longer a loss if the 8 doesn't go in. When in Rome, do as the Romans but that doesn't mean you have to like it. Best to just grin and bear it, the rules are the same for all.

I play in one League with my buddies one night a week. The rest of the week we play in different Non Handicrapped tournaments and try to car pool out of town to a different tournament a few times a month.

My point is, Don't take League Play too serious. It is what it is.
 
Ironman

BCA, ACS, and Valley in my area are now all Handicrapped Leagues. 8 Ball on the break is no longer a win and scratch on the 8 ball is no longer a loss if the 8 doesn't go in. When in Rome, do as the Romans but that doesn't mean you have to like it. Best to just grin and bear it, the rules are the same for all.

I play in one League with my buddies one night a week. The rest of the week we play in different Non Handicrapped tournaments and try to car pool out of town to a different tournament a few times a month.

My point is, Don't take League Play too serious. It is what it is.

i agree. i think leagues are great for pool and great for room owners. the apa is probably the most well known across the country, but that doesn't mean that it is the best as far as structure. i think the structure of the valley league is far more credible than the apa. how many times do you hear of sandbagging in the apa? how many times do you hear of this in valley (or some other) leagues?
 
is there some sandbagging in the APA.. yes, but it's not anywhere near as bad as the folk's on here make it out to be. there one local guy from this area that any time he loses he grouses that his opponent is cheating. some people just can't admit they lost!!
 
i agree. i think leagues are great for pool and great for room owners. the apa is probably the most well known across the country, but that doesn't mean that it is the best as far as structure. i think the structure of the valley league is far more credible than the apa. how many times do you hear of sandbagging in the apa? how many times do you hear of this in valley (or some other) leagues?

Ironman

In my Area it is great for Bar owners because they are all played on Bar Boxes. But I admit my social life revolves around Leagues and Pool in general. But we take turns having house parties also. One guy on our team Loans money to God while another has a hard time paying the league fee. Sports bring people together from different walks of life. The common interest creates a Bond that helps us in our every day life. One Team mate has helped advise me with my finical matters and I am tutoring an other for the same State Certification I have. We have bonded as Comrades in arms

But I grant you, Compared to APA all the other Leagues are more Creditable
 
I'm all too familiar with sandbagging in APA. My team just got back from the NTC in Vegas playing in the Open 8 Ball Division,where we placed 129th,and we ran into hugely stacked teams. The first one that beat us and put us on the losers' side of our bracket had 1 SL7,2 SL6s,1 or 2 SL5s,and the rest of the team consisted of SL4s that I know damn well play better than they put on. This team came in 2nd BTW. They were all nice as they could be and shot a damn good game but it pisses me off that a team can be as stacked as that and teams like the one I'm on have trouble staying a certain skill level because they shoot their true speed or sometimes have a good night and win. When they do get moved up,it punishes the entire team and eventually win force the team to split.
BS such as this is one of the reasons I'm close to quitting the APA. I much rather prefer playing in my local region where I know everyone and can have a good time playing. I just wish I could get some of these super 3 and 4s on the table,whether it be a barbox or 9 footer,and embarrass the crap out of them.
 
... I much rather prefer playing in my local region where I know everyone and can have a good time playing....

I agree, and that's what it's supposed to be all about: Having Fun! :smile:

I used to play on a league, and we had rated players on our team, from 3 to 7, I think it was. I was a 6, but we did have a 3 -- the late "Cab Driver Pete" for the local readers -- what we called our "secret weapon" who played better than me. Eventually, he became a 7, but everybody started out as a 3.

I did have fun on that league. I think a local league, like you say, would be more fun. JMHO! :p
 
I know someone who should be a 7 but is a 4. He'll run up innings and miss on purpose.
Blow easy posisition, mis cue, mess up the break, just stay a 4.
Then he plays in tournaments and doesn't miss.
I can't understand how it can be enjoyable to have to play bad.

There are two kinds of pool players. There are the kind who love the game and enjoy playing. Then there are the kind who want to hustle, manipulate, push the rules, and generally only care about what they can get for themselves.

I personally spend my time with people who love the game, and avoid the others. When I find myself in a situation where I must play a hustler, I admit, I take a little extra pride in punishing them whenever possible.

Steve
 
Jen, the leagues definitely keep many pool rooms in business. We should be sending the leagues thank you notes, not bashing them on the pool forums.

You should check out Big Daddy's Billiards in Glen Burnie. There is no alcohol and good equipment. It is a real pool room.

I like that Rick, the owner. He always treated me nice at the other joint.

I haven't been to this room yet, but it is on my hit list. We're heading out this year on a mission. :D

As much as I want to go South, I think we are heading North. This seems to be where the tournaments we enjoy are happening. The regional tours in our area, as you know, are experiencing problems. :(

I can't wait to get out of Dodge City. ;)
 
There are two kinds of pool players. There are the kind who love the game and enjoy playing. Then there are the kind who want to hustle, manipulate, push the rules, and generally only care about what they can get for themselves.

I personally spend my time with people who love the game, and avoid the others. When I find myself in a situation where I must play a hustler, I admit, I take a little extra pride in punishing them whenever possible.

Steve

Steve

True to life in general, There are those who play the Game and those who play the People. Most who play People get theirs in the end, But there are many who manage to slip by and never get theirs. Life is too short to try and get revenge on the People Players. If the Opportunity arises, then take advantage of it. But to go after People Players puts you in their class.
 
Sandbagging is very real and irritating.

I play on an APA team. I am a SL7, I have been for quite some time. I try to win every match I play. When I first joined the league ( over 16 years ago) I naively thought you were supposed to try and play your best and try to win every match. I thought that raising your level of play and your handicap was something to be proud of. It shows that you have learned something and have gained some knowledge from all the time you have spent playing pool. Somewhere along the line I leaerned I was mistaken.

I still cringe when I hear somebody profess very proudly " I have been playing in the league for 5 years and I am still a 4!". I will usually tell them that they have wasted a lot of time and money then! So you are telling me you have played this game prob at least 2 times a week for 5 years, and you are still rated at a very average skill level, AND YOU ARE PROUD OF YOURSELF?

I will tell you that sandbagging is very real, BUT the fact that there is so much sandbagging going on lets a lot of people kid themselves too! I know there are MANY players who DO try their best to win, but when thet lose , just PRETEND they were in fact sandbagging. They use it as a cop out for losing. " Well, I don't want to go up to a 4, so I lost". Bullshit. I know there are a lot of players who secretly would love to be a higher ranked handicap, but when thet fail they pass it off as dumping for their team. Ask all of these guys when the last time their team finished near the top in the last five years. When they stop and think about it, and realize the answer is never, ask them again why they are bothering to dump then? It is a convenient excuse for poor play, and not owning your performance. It is the same as the guy who always loses and acts as though he is hustling. Oddly enough you NEVER see this guy in action! The whole point of a hustle or sandbagging is a PAYOFF. If there is never a payoff, why are you going through all that trouble?


Just thought I would throw in another aspect of the sandbagging that bugs me a bit. I still just show up and play to win, even though it is frustrating to have to give up handicaps to evenly matched players. I still usually do just fine even with my handicap.

When I am having an off night, I usually joke that I am just worried about my handicap going up! :rolleyes:


Jw
 
Sandbagging is very real and irritating.

I play on an APA team. I am a SL7, I have been for quite some time. I try to win every match I play. When I first joined the league ( over 16 years ago) I naively thought you were supposed to try and play your best and try to win every match. I thought that raising your level of play and your handicap was something to be proud of. It shows that you have learned something and have gained some knowledge from all the time you have spent playing pool. Somewhere along the line I leaerned I was mistaken.

I still cringe when I hear somebody profess very proudly " I have been playing in the league for 5 years and I am still a 4!". I will usually tell them that they have wasted a lot of time and money then! So you are telling me you have played this game prob at least 2 times a week for 5 years, and you are still rated at a very average skill level, AND YOU ARE PROUD OF YOURSELF?

I will tell you that sandbagging is very real, BUT the fact that there is so much sandbagging going on lets a lot of people kid themselves too! I know there are MANY players who DO try their best to win, but when thet lose , just PRETEND they were in fact sandbagging. They use it as a cop out for losing. " Well, I don't want to go up to a 4, so I lost". Bullshit. I know there are a lot of players who secretly would love to be a higher ranked handicap, but when thet fail they pass it off as dumping for their team. Ask all of these guys when the last time their team finished near the top in the last five years. When they stop and think about it, and realize the answer is never, ask them again why they are bothering to dump then? It is a convenient excuse for poor play, and not owning your performance. It is the same as the guy who always loses and acts as though he is hustling. Oddly enough you NEVER see this guy in action! The whole point of a hustle or sandbagging is a PAYOFF. If there is never a payoff, why are you going through all that trouble?


Just thought I would throw in another aspect of the sandbagging that bugs me a bit. I still just show up and play to win, even though it is frustrating to have to give up handicaps to evenly matched players. I still usually do just fine even with my handicap.

When I am having an off night, I usually joke that I am just worried about my handicap going up! :rolleyes:


Jw



my point exactly! Well said sir.
 
Obviously, most miss the entire point. The real fun of APA is to play and win when it is only necessary to advance.

I am sandbagging 3, and really enjoy it.

The folks I really dont understand are those who are proud of being a 6 or 7. To me they are admitting they really dont understand how it really works and are pretty dumb.

There was one guy in a town I used to live in, that was so proud of that SL7 ranking he had, hell I would play him even gambling, but he wouldnt do that. :rolleyes:

UGH!

Ken
 
Obviously, most miss the entire point. The real fun of APA is to play and win when it is only necessary to advance.

I am sandbagging 3, and really enjoy it.

The folks I really dont understand are those who are proud of being a 6 or 7. To me they are admitting they really dont understand how it really works and are pretty dumb.

There was one guy in a town I used to live in, that was so proud of that SL7 ranking he had, hell I would play him even gambling, but he wouldnt do that. :rolleyes:

UGH!

Ken

Okay, so the APA was designed with this in mind? Is this written in the handbook? It is NOT the sytem, it is the MANIPULATION of the system. It is also called cheating. You are proud of being a cheater, NOT a highly skilled player able to win without an unfair advantage.

Look, I get it. I am not unaware of how it works, believe me! I am saying I am not thrilled with how it is. And I will ask the same question of you HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOUR TEAM WON BY USING THIS MANIPULATION?

I think it is really funny when you would admit to cheating to gain an unfair advantage, and then admit that you have not even won while cheating! I hope that your team has won at least 4 out of 5 attempts. Otherwise you are saying you can't win even dishonestly!

I still just show up and have fun. I do not live and die on every match. I genuinely try to win all of my matches. I think I could lose an arm, and they will not lower my handicap. It is no longer an issue for me.

Want to know what else? My team is on FIRST PLACE by a pretty decent margin and 2 or 3 weeks left! What do you think of that? I have played in the finals many times with my real and deserved handicap.

I get the most enjoyment I can out of the leagues. I take it for what it is, good and bad. I enjoy a good performance. I play my game and let the chips fall where they may. I guess this makes me dumb. I am less than intelligent for wanting a fair match up and to enjoy winning a deserved match in an organized national league. I guess I will shut up now before I embarrass myself any further.:grin:


Jw
 
I get the most enjoyment I can out of the leagues. I take it for what it is, good and bad. I enjoy a good performance. I play my game and let the chips fall where they may. I guess this makes me dumb. I am less than intelligent for wanting a fair match up and to enjoy winning a deserved match in an organized national league. I guess I will shut up now before I embarrass myself any further.:grin:


Jw

My point is you cant really win unless you sandbag or play the system. It is really like steriods in sports. Once someone is on them, to stay competitive you have to use them as well. ( I know that statement will not win friends)

As mentioned by others here, to win you have to play the system. If you just want to play then just play, but dont complain about the sandbagging.

My final point was said by a great young player in my hometown, who posts here as 1on1pooltourney. He said,"All league players are the same, they never practice or try to improve so they can beat anybody but constantly complain about handicaps and sandbaggers." In that town he was right, there were league players and then there was pool players.

Pool players (me included), practiced drills, matched up, gambled (cheap usually for me), played different games (snooker, onepocket, 10-ball, banks), played in unhandicapped tourneyments, etc.

Actually, I havent played leagues for years, and I think leagues do bring alot of players to the game, and they do help purchase tables, cues, balls and stuff. But like my young friend, I do get tired of hearing talk about sandbagging....

Ken
 
I play my game and let the chips fall where they may. I guess this makes me dumb.

Jw

Actually, I think that makes you a real pool player, and a decent human being. Sandbaggers are cheaters, and cheaters are scum.
Self admitted scum.....now THAT, I would consider pretty dumb.

Steve
 
APA should be Sanbagging inc. - 08-24-2009, 11:52 AM

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I've been asked many times to play in the APA and won't for the sanbagging reason.
I've actually been told to make sure I lose my fist match so I'd have more time before my handicap would go up.
I can't understand playing and not giving your best effort.
I also wouldn't be crazy about showing up and not playing.
I enjoy playing in leagues and tournaments knowing how good my opponent is. Making an art form out of Sandbagging and rewarding it is just a waste of time.

Anyone know if this is the way it is everywhere, or just in RI?

Then what would we call the usppa?
 
My point is you cant really win unless you sandbag or play the system. It is really like steriods in sports. Once someone is on them, to stay competitive you have to use them as well. ( I know that statement will not win friends)

As mentioned by others here, to win you have to play the system. If you just want to play then just play, but dont complain about the sandbagging.

My final point was said by a great young player in my hometown, who posts here as 1on1pooltourney. He said,"All league players are the same, they never practice or try to improve so they can beat anybody but constantly complain about handicaps and sandbaggers." In that town he was right, there were league players and then there was pool players.

Pool players (me included), practiced drills, matched up, gambled (cheap usually for me), played different games (snooker, onepocket, 10-ball, banks), played in unhandicapped tourneyments, etc.

Actually, I havent played leagues for years, and I think leagues do bring alot of players to the game, and they do help purchase tables, cues, balls and stuff. But like my young friend, I do get tired of hearing talk about sandbagging....

Ken


Ken

I think the question for some of us is, "Who Is Our Competition?" In my case My Competition is myself and I would rather play my best and lose to a better player, Than play my worst and beat a lesser player. But then I am a mature person with a comfortable income and I don't need to collect soda cans in order to buy lunch.

Now I am sure we all have Sandbagged at one time of an other. But to post on the World Wide Web that you are 7 who sandbags to a 3 is telling the world what a Jerk you can be, IMHO. We all like to win. But how we win is as important as winning.
 
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