APA Strategy Question

There are different ways to look at it, for sure. You were in a good position to win, and you went for the kill...nothing wrong with that, at all.

Ordinarily, I would want my most seasoned, strongest player in a position to play the final, deciding match. A strong SL7 should be able to beat any lower skill level player, based more on his ability to control the cueball and play defense, than for any other reason. Of course, that does not always happen, but I would always play those odds.

You can (and will) always second guess what you did, and how things wound up, but you did things like you thought was right at the time, so no reason to sweat it. That is just how things go in pool. The best player does not always win a short match, especially with team pressure riding on the outcome.

I have told people many times that I feel it is much easier to gamble with my money than it is to play for the team. In gambling, the pressure is just about me. In a team event, everyone else's hopes are riding on you, too.

Joe
 
Ken_4fun said:
I never understood why you would not put your best players first.

I would love to have to win 1 out of the next 3 for the cash.

A win is a win.

ken
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Very simply because if you throw your good ones out first, they won't be available to you in the 4th and 5th matches where you need people with experience and ability.

Long story short, they can't change the match around for you in the clutch because you moved your queen and rooks out first and now you're left with pawns to decide whether you go to vegas or not.
 
NewStroke said:
Hey Jim, I think it was a good matchup altogether.

I expected Larry to beat Dawn and she played him well.

Bill lost which I did not expect.

The match between Jeff and Buffy was a tossup like it is everytime they play.

Monte and Jim was another coin flip.

That really left it up to me and you and you know we have some really good matches. I got lucky this time.

I think if I had anything to change that it would be that I would have played your son against Wonie, because of the way I saw him shooting the night before. And I think he gets under Wonie's skin much more than Bill.

As a side note, you were better off losing, the next match was a "rules clusterf*ck" which I'll post about later. Needless to say, it became a match about who *****ed the most and nothing about pool.
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Hey Dan,

I am still waiting to hear about the next match...lol. I want to get the skinny on what happened...lol... particularly because I know that team.

We can talk about our match later; it was a very good match. But give some details on the drama because that is what AZB is all about...lol. and you know that.
 
JDB said:
This will probably be a long post, but I have a question regarding APA Strategy during the playoffs or County Championships.

During normal weekly play, I prefer to play the best player on the other team; I am an SL7 in 8-ball and an 8 in 9-ball. In fact, even in the playoffs and other higher level tournaments I like to do the same because I expect to win. Therefore, why throw a lower level player against them and waste a game?

However, today I think I may have changed my opinion and probably cost my team a chance to continue with the tournament for our chance to go to vegas.

Today we played in the County Championships and played a team from our division that we are very familiar with. We won the first two matches, which put is in a great position to win. All we had to do was win one match out of the next 3 matches.

My team still had a SL7, SL5 and an SL4 to play the last 3 matches while the other team had an SL6, SL5 and SL3 remaining.

For the third match, it was our put up and we elected to go with the SL4 and they countered with their SL5. Their SL5 won the match, putting the match at 2 - 1.

Now for the question. Since it was their put up; I had a choice between going head to head with the SL6 and having my SL5 play the SL3, or I could wait to play the SL3 and put my SL5 against their SL6.

My logic was that by me playing the SL6, we had (2) very strong opportunities to win. As I said, I expect to win and I believed my SL5 should also be able to beat the SL3. If I play the SL5 against their SL6, I am 90+% expecting a loss because of the relative playing abilities of each (the SL6 is a very strong SL6 borderline 7, the SL5 is a weaker SL5).

So what do you do in this situation? Do match up the higher Skill Levels together or do you have the SL7 wait and play the SL3?

I will say, if my team was down to an SL7 and an SL3, I would have thrown the SL3 against the strong SL6.

Anyway, please let me know your opinions. Sorry for the extended post; however, I did use punctuation and paragraphs...lol.
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What you do there is put up your 7 in the 3rd spot. There are many reasons for this. First, however, you need to know if you are a "strong" 7. In my area, it is easy because there are only 2 other guys in my whole league that can give me a match. So I know that I am likely to beat anyone, regardless of their skill level. Thus when my team wins the first two, we always choose to drop the hammer (ha ha) an play me 3rd to seal the deal. If by chance I lose, we still have 2 more chances. If the other team knows me, they might consider sacrificing a low ranked player on me, but once it is 2-0 us, they can't do this anymore. So not only do I have the advantage of playing better (most likely) than the guy they will put up against me, I also have the advantage of him being very nervous and pressured to win, since if he loses his team is all done. If you are more of a middle of the road 7, this can still work well, mainly due to the nerves factor of the opponent playing in the do or die situation. Plus, I think there is a certain psychology that happens for some people in which a voice in the back of their head says its OK to lose since 2 of their teammates did. In summary, go for the kill immediately!

Just my $0.02.

KMRUNOUT
 
Match

I would put up the 5 (middle handicap). If they put up the 6, and the next match put up the 3, play your 4. That way the last match comes down to you playing the 5, which you should win being the 7, and you are the anchor man anyway.

If they put up their 5, and say he beats your 5, then you have the choice next match if they put up their 3 (saving the 6 for the anchor match).
Myself, I would put my 4 against their 3, and save the last match to play their 6, which you should win too.

And I don't think there would be anyway they would play their 3 against your 5 if you put him up.

My way gives you the advantage in 2 out of 3 matches left.
 
Derek said:
If you win the flip at the beginning to decide which team puts up first, choose your team to put up first. That is if you think you have a solid player who is going to get that first match for a win. Once that occurs, the other team has to put up next and you hold the advantage for the rest of the match in how you want to match up against their players. However, you lose the first match and then you are at a disadvantage.

-- I am adding that if you throw up first, starting with a solid 4 or 5 will most likely cause the other team to match up. It would be unusual for the other team to throw off on a 4 or 5 for the first match. A good 6 or 7 might be thrown off on and a 2 or 3 might have too much pressure on them to play first. Save the 2 or 3 for a later match as a possible sacrificial lamb.

I prefer holding back the 7 on the team for later matches. Two things could happen if a 7 plays first. One, the other team may throw off with a 2 or 3. Playing on a bar box, while the 7 has the superior advantage, you never know what could happen. Knock in an early 8 and then the 2 or 3 is on the hill in the very first match.

Second, if the 7 loses to whomever, it could have a negative effect to the morale of the team for the rest of the matches. Unless you have a strong 6 to back up the 7, having the top dog go down early can be the demise of the team. Better to save the 7 for matches 3 thru 5.
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The best advice given so far!

Every team with a very strong SL4 should play that player first if they have the first put up. This is the worst matchup for an SL7 in 8 ball as the SL4 only needs 2 games to win. A strong SL4 who can play safe and who is a straight shooter is very dangerous to any skill level.

To put up your strongest player first is stupidity. A good team will counteract an SL7 ot DL6 with an SL2 to throw the game and count on winning the rest.

While in Vegas however, it is difficult to pick out the strongest player. That is why you start of with an SL4 most of the time.
 
In the past I would have played as the OP played it. However, this has changed since this last playoff session. We threw heavy early and were up 2 -0. Tried to go for the kill with our third best player in game 3 and he lost. Had a 4 against a 3 in game 4 and a 2 against a 4 in game 5. We lost the night. Our player in game 4 never showed up (figuratively) and our player in game 5 was nervous and started telling me it was unfair because the person she was playing had dreadlocks and that's where he got all his power from. Comical if you weren't there. Truth be told I think they weren't used to going up late and weren't able to handle the sauce. We have always been a very social team and want to keep it that way, but playoffs doesn't equal party until after the night is over.
 
Keep a RED APA log book.

In APA, keep a log. Capture the team and players name and rating. Also evaluate the player and record that also. After 3 years, you will have a blue book of most of the players actual ratings. Log also detail about the play. Make your log book recognizable as such. Red is a nice color.

Campaign with some other like minded team captains to get on he handicap review committee. In 2/3's of the meetings discussion of players will be had. Regretfully, 1/3 of the meetings go to administrative issues. If you can't make it onto the committee, support a peer.

For bad cases, include commentary on the back or the score sheet. This is your first LO advisement.

At the meeting, bring out you log and read out some of their shots. Focus discussion of players that appear to be 2 levels better than their current ratings. You want to build a following from the other members. This makes many sand baggers DOA, as the other members on the committee will recall their play and vote accordingly. Very few baggers can escape detection and adjustment. My success rate was 80%.

I kept my record file on computer, for easy sorting. I haven't played APA for years. The local league is being purchased by another. I know the operator, and provided him with a printout from my old blue book. Most of the older players had been identified as to proper levels, but a few were not.
 
Thanks, everyone, for your input to my question. I wasn't going to bring this back to the top; however, since someone else did, I thought I would say thanks.

I think that I came to realize that both options were viable options and whichever I chose was either right or wrong based on the result, which in this case meant wrong...lol.

I genuinely thought I gave us (2) chances at winning versus only (1) by playing it like I did, which is why I chose that option.

Again, thanks for the input.
 
Don't beat yourself up...
I'm a very strong SL7, I've taken 3 teams to Vegas
3 years in a row. My local league operator who is a
friend of mine, kindly asked me not to build any
more teams, he had teams threatening to quit if he
continued to let me build teams. I really have an
issue with the APA because of their system. If they
would do away with the "slop counts" part of their
system things would be much better. That way when
someone misses a shot but "sh*ts" a ball in they
continue to shoot and therefore on paper it makes
them appear to be better than they are due to the fact
there isn't a box to mark down a "lucky" shot. That
being said...(thanks for letting me vent) I don't think
you did anything wrong in your decision to play it as
you did. If we were up 2 to 0, I would have played
myself and closed out the match as well. Keep strokin'
and get 'em next time...
 
Someone earlier mentioned something that bears repeating. You really have to know the makeup of your players, and how they handle things, regardless of their ability.

I'm not very good at this point, just moved to SL4 last session. But I don't rattle easily. My team captian saved me for later in the match during our playoffs and qualifier tournament since the pressure wouldn't affect me as much as it would the other SL3 that we have on our team. (I was a 3 at that time as well.) That way we could use any combination of the stronger players that we wanted to, as the match progressed, to take the match as early as possible. Not because I was sitting there ready to beat anyone necessarily, but at least I wouldn't screw it up before even getting to the table by being pysched out.

I believe that played to my advantage in the championship game of the qualifier tournament, I played the last match against an SL4. He is a few years older than me, too, but he seemed far more nervous than I was. Our league playoffs went the same way, I played the last match of the deciding game against a young lady who had beaten me twice during the session, but boy was she nervous.

How your own players handle pressure has to be accounted for.... That's what little I know.
 
Strategy

I would have done the same thing.
I have been involved with APA for 15 years and you can not second guess yourself.
Someone earlier posted about the coin flip and having first player put up.
I believe in my years playing this is the best way to go for two reasons.

1. You have control of 3 matches that you are deciding the talent level.
2. In the 4th match which usually is the key tell all you are giving the other team the decision to make.
If you are down 1-2 and you have to choose the 4th match it almost never fails the higher rated player gets dodged.

If your team is up 2-1 they have to decide and you can react by finishing it off or saving the top player for the lower level players.

Just my 2 cents worth
 
4th match they put up there SL6, then I would have put up my SL5 and i would have played there SL3. I am also a SL 7 and this has come up before. I always say if I can, I want to put all the pressure on myself and not leave it in the hands of my teammates because I know I can handle it. Also there SL 3 would have been really nervous and it would have made for a easier win as long as you didn't scratch on the 8ball.
 
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works great, when it works...

We had it set up the way we wanted to, during our second round match. SL4 beats SL4, SL4 beats SL3, we're up 2-0. They put up their SL7, we put up our Sl3, now we're 2-1. We put up our SL7 to get the win, they put up an SL5. SL7 is on the hill, can't close it out, match tied 2-2.

Last match, SL4 (me) vs an SL3. Again, we had this set up perfectly, right? He gets the first game, already on the hill. I get the second game, and am in perfect position to close out the second game to get to the hill, and promptly screw it up.

Moral of the story is you can set it up perfectly on who you put up, but it don't mean a thing if you don't win the games you're supposed to.
 
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