APA Strategy Question

J

JDB

Idiot Savant
Silver Member
This will probably be a long post, but I have a question regarding APA Strategy during the playoffs or County Championships.

During normal weekly play, I prefer to play the best player on the other team; I am an SL7 in 8-ball and an 8 in 9-ball. In fact, even in the playoffs and other higher level tournaments I like to do the same because I expect to win. Therefore, why throw a lower level player against them and waste a game?

However, today I think I may have changed my opinion and probably cost my team a chance to continue with the tournament for our chance to go to vegas.

Today we played in the County Championships and played a team from our division that we are very familiar with. We won the first two matches, which put is in a great position to win. All we had to do was win one match out of the next 3 matches.

My team still had a SL7, SL5 and an SL4 to play the last 3 matches while the other team had an SL6, SL5 and SL3 remaining.

For the third match, it was our put up and we elected to go with the SL4 and they countered with their SL5. Their SL5 won the match, putting the match at 2 - 1.

Now for the question. Since it was their put up; I had a choice between going head to head with the SL6 and having my SL5 play the SL3, or I could wait to play the SL3 and put my SL5 against their SL6.

My logic was that by me playing the SL6, we had (2) very strong opportunities to win. As I said, I expect to win and I believed my SL5 should also be able to beat the SL3. If I play the SL5 against their SL6, I am 90+% expecting a loss because of the relative playing abilities of each (the SL6 is a very strong SL6 borderline 7, the SL5 is a weaker SL5).

So what do you do in this situation? Do match up the higher Skill Levels together or do you have the SL7 wait and play the SL3?

I will say, if my team was down to an SL7 and an SL3, I would have thrown the SL3 against the strong SL6.

Anyway, please let me know your opinions. Sorry for the extended post; however, I did use punctuation and paragraphs...lol.
 
I never understood why you would not put your best players first.

I would love to have to win 1 out of the next 3 for the cash.

A win is a win.

ken
 
I don't think you made a mistake.

A 7 vs. a 3 can end up real bad more often then not. It is a lot of weight to give up.
 
Ken_4fun said:
I never understood why you would not put your best players first.

I would love to have to win 1 out of the next 3 for the cash.

A win is a win.

ken
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For me, I play because I enjoy the competition, which is the reason that I want to play the best player on the other team.

I could really care less about winning a trip to vegas. It really isn't that important to me. I also understand that this may not be the case for the rest of my team, which does bother me if I screw up the strategy, which is the reason I posed the question.

However, I did talk to my team regarding the strategy and everyone pretty much left it up to me.
 
deebee53 said:
I don't think you made a mistake.

A 7 vs. a 3 can end up real bad more often then not. It is a lot of weight to give up.
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I was thinking that too, which is why I went ahead with my strategy. Even though I knew I would be in a tough match, I thought my SL5 would be able to beat their SL3 as long as I continued to remind the SL5 to shoot smart.

I also thought I had a very good chance of winning my match.

Just didn't work out this time.
 
In the playoffs I threw a 2 and the other team threw their 6. This was in the second match too, so no need for desperate moves.

They got greedy and where punished with a beat down.


I very rarely throw a player that is 2+ difference in skill rankings if I don't have to.
 
Sorry there is wayyyyyyyyy to much math in that post.

Your post reads like a course on boolean operators.

If I put up this player, then if for but not 3<5>7- 2xy7

JUST PLAY POOL...
 
been in the league for a decade or better...been a captian or co captian for all of it. Who plays next has always been up to me.....even as co captian it goes through me because my team trusts my logic considering the experience of all those years.

I would have played just as you did...no question.
 
as a former apa team captain and a SL7, i would have played the 3, and let the 5 play the 6.

im a firm believer in the 1 up 2 down approach to skill level matchups but with vegas on the line, im playing the 3.

i'd give a 3 no more than a 10% chance of beating me. If the player is a true 3, i'd say more like 5%.
 
I have played the league off and on for 8 years. I am a SL 7. I have been to vegas 5 times.

With that out of the way.

I would have played it just like you did. Control the last two, YOU play the 6 and put your 5 on their 3.

If your team doesn't win one of those two matches, i don't know what to tell you.

Good Luck in the future. The strategy part of the APA is the best part of it IMHO.
 
I feel it depends on how strong the players in question are (for their ranking) if known> you said the 6 is borderline a 7 so playing him he would seem to have a race advantage if he playes like a 7 but is only a 6

the same principal applies for the others depends on how strong they are for their number. since you know the opponents you kinda have the answers. as a former 7 current 6 I would have shot earlier and saved some other options for the end a 7 vs a 3 is never fun in my eyes not with the any pocket goes rule and a well placed timeout the odd aren't good at all JMHO as it is hard to say w/o being there
 
You gotta play anchor as the SL7. Give your SL5 a chance to win it, the SL6 has his back against the wall and has to give up weight.

I have not ever seen a lot of SL3's that play a good anchor they usually fold under the pressure.
 
Been in similar situations in APA

JDB said:
During normal weekly play, I prefer to play the best player on the other team; I am an SL7 in 8-ball and an 8 in 9-ball. In fact, even in the playoffs and other higher level tournaments I like to do the same because I expect to win. Therefore, why throw a lower level player against them and waste a game?


Now for the question. Since it was their put up; I had a choice between going head to head with the SL6 and having my SL5 play the SL3, or I could wait to play the SL3 and put my SL5 against their SL6.


So what do you do in this situation? Do match up the higher Skill Levels together or do you have the SL7 wait and play the SL3?
Click to expand...


In APA, it is the player match-ups that truly make the match interesting, and separates the good from the GREAT teams. You need 3 TEAM wins to win a match, so you need to make sure that you are matching up your teammates in a best possible situation for them to win 3 matches total. I understand the mentality of being the best player on your team, and wanting to play and beat the other team's best player, but that is not always good for your team - nothing is guaranteed.

I am a SL6 in 8 ball, the team captain, and the highest rated player on my team. But that certainly does not mean I will play the best player on the opposing team every night, and especially in the playoffs. Can I win 80% of my matches? My record proves it, but I must think of the entire team needing 3 wins, not just 1 win from me. YOU MUST PLAY THE PERCENTAGES!!!
I would have played the SL5 against the SL6, and saved yourself as a SL7 versus the SL3 in the final match, in case the SL5 Lost. But the SL5 might have won - pressure is all on the other team, since they cannot lose another game.
PRESSURE can be a killer, and with a SL3 playing you as a SL7 in the HILL match, it might have been rough, especially if you play some solid Defense, and make the SL3 play your game. I have played many a player in a Hill match, and nerves can really get on someone. Do not forget that there is more to the game then making balls and skill levels. Pool is a mental game, and both you and your SL5 might have had the advantage.

No games are wasted when the outcome is uncertain. I have many times sent my worst player against the other team's best player. Why? Because my winning may not be guaranteed, but with their best player out of the equation, I can now match-up my entire team much stronger. And who knows, my weakest player might win with the handicap and a few well placed timeouts. And then the match is OURS!!!!

I hope this helps.

Good luck next time.

JMHO
Michael
 
You play the 6 and the 5 play the 3. Those are the best matchups. Now if the other team had a 6 and a 5 and you only need 1 win, then I would say let your 5 play the 6 and you play their 5. I try to keep 7s off of 3s and 4s. The pressure is too great on the 7. The 3 and 4 are not supposed to win that matchup and shouldn't have a whole lot of pressure on them even if this is for the ship.
 
JDB said:
This will probably be a long post, but I have a question regarding APA Strategy during the playoffs or County Championships.

During normal weekly play, I prefer to play the best player on the other team; I am an SL7 in 8-ball and an 8 in 9-ball. In fact, even in the playoffs and other higher level tournaments I like to do the same because I expect to win. Therefore, why throw a lower level player against them and waste a game?

However, today I think I may have changed my opinion and probably cost my team a chance to continue with the tournament for our chance to go to vegas.

Today we played in the County Championships and played a team from our division that we are very familiar with. We won the first two matches, which put is in a great position to win. All we had to do was win one match out of the next 3 matches.

My team still had a SL7, SL5 and an SL4 to play the last 3 matches while the other team had an SL6, SL5 and SL3 remaining.

For the third match, it was our put up and we elected to go with the SL4 and they countered with their SL5. Their SL5 won the match, putting the match at 2 - 1.

Now for the question. Since it was their put up; I had a choice between going head to head with the SL6 and having my SL5 play the SL3, or I could wait to play the SL3 and put my SL5 against their SL6.

My logic was that by me playing the SL6, we had (2) very strong opportunities to win. As I said, I expect to win and I believed my SL5 should also be able to beat the SL3. If I play the SL5 against their SL6, I am 90+% expecting a loss because of the relative playing abilities of each (the SL6 is a very strong SL6 borderline 7, the SL5 is a weaker SL5).

So what do you do in this situation? Do match up the higher Skill Levels together or do you have the SL7 wait and play the SL3?

I will say, if my team was down to an SL7 and an SL3, I would have thrown the SL3 against the strong SL6.

Anyway, please let me know your opinions. Sorry for the extended post; however, I did use punctuation and paragraphs...lol.
Click to expand...

In my experience, a 7 playing a 6 is a great matchup for the 7. I used to lose to 3's now and then, but I don't think I ever lost to a 6 after I went up to a 7. The 3 only has to win 2 games, and that's tough to fade. The 6 has to win 4, and a good 7 shouldn't ever let a 6 get that far.

I would assume that my 3 is going to lose (you don't want to assume he can win), and therefore I would assume that I have to win my match for the team to go on. This is only fitting; I am the team's best player. So it really just comes down to who do I want to play for all the marbles. And the answer is the one that needs to win more games to beat me. I need to have the luxury of making 2 mistakes. I'm not perfect enough to play without that wiggle room. Against a 3, 2 mistakes can be your ball game.

-Andrew
 
If you win the flip at the beginning to decide which team puts up first, choose your team to put up first. That is if you think you have a solid player who is going to get that first match for a win. Once that occurs, the other team has to put up next and you hold the advantage for the rest of the match in how you want to match up against their players. However, you lose the first match and then you are at a disadvantage.

-- I am adding that if you throw up first, starting with a solid 4 or 5 will most likely cause the other team to match up. It would be unusual for the other team to throw off on a 4 or 5 for the first match. A good 6 or 7 might be thrown off on and a 2 or 3 might have too much pressure on them to play first. Save the 2 or 3 for a later match as a possible sacrificial lamb.

I prefer holding back the 7 on the team for later matches. Two things could happen if a 7 plays first. One, the other team may throw off with a 2 or 3. Playing on a bar box, while the 7 has the superior advantage, you never know what could happen. Knock in an early 8 and then the 2 or 3 is on the hill in the very first match.

Second, if the 7 loses to whomever, it could have a negative effect to the morale of the team for the rest of the matches. Unless you have a strong 6 to back up the 7, having the top dog go down early can be the demise of the team. Better to save the 7 for matches 3 thru 5.
 
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Hey Jim, I think it was a good matchup altogether.

I expected Larry to beat Dawn and she played him well.

Bill lost which I did not expect.

The match between Jeff and Buffy was a tossup like it is everytime they play.

Monte and Jim was another coin flip.

That really left it up to me and you and you know we have some really good matches. I got lucky this time.

I think if I had anything to change that it would be that I would have played your son against Wonie, because of the way I saw him shooting the night before. And I think he gets under Wonie's skin much more than Bill.

As a side note, you were better off losing, the next match was a "rules clusterf*ck" which I'll post about later. Needless to say, it became a match about who *****ed the most and nothing about pool.
 
u12armresl said:
Sorry there is wayyyyyyyyy to much math in that post.

Your post reads like a course on boolean operators.

If I put up this player, then if for but not 3<5>7- 2xy7

JUST PLAY POOL...
Click to expand...

So how would you match up....alphabetically?!?
 
I would have played it the same way, figuring that a 5 will beat a 3 a great majority of the time. Sometimes it just doesn't happen.
I watched a girl in the championship tournament yesterday. She was a 2 who had lost 11 straight matches...never won one. She went up against a six, and got her first win, which put her team in the big money match. So stuff happens. They put up this girl as a throw-away and she ended the match!
In the end, only one team is going to advance all the way....it wasn't your time. Don't second guess yourself....get 'em next time.

Steve
 
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