APA vs BCA team champions

I have to agree. I don't know that players are better in the BCA. It's just the scoring and differences between the leagues. I would like to see what would happen between champions of both formats.:D We're just starting up BCA in our area again and I'm definitely giving it a try
 
This is the equivalent of having Indy cars racing against NASCAR in the Indy 500. Different rules for both leagues.

I don't think the quality of players means anything because we have the same players in our area playing in both leagues.

The players are the same, they play with the same skill, the only difference is the strategy is a little different because one uses ball count and the other uses wins and innings.



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This thread is is just so much blowing hard about nothing.

1. Yes if you talk normal teams, BCA has no handicap limit for a 5 man teams and APA does, so that's apples and oranges.

2. APA doesn't have a limit in the masters division, but that happens to be 3 man teams. Here's a Master's team that happened to win it all in 2006 that's a pretty good representation of potential at APA masters players:

Kenneth Brisbon, Jason Kirkwood and Richard Schmiegel, Jr.

I think that's a pretty good starting 3 to compete with any team period.

The comments about slop is misinformed at best. No player of that caliber ever significantly uses slops during a match. However, I guarantee the bigger rule that makes 8 ball too easy that they would want to keep is from BCA not APA and that's open after the break. That rule has a much bigger impact on a game of 8 ball than slop ever had with that level of player.

I don't even see the point of the conversation really it just a matter of who leaves the strongest borderline pro's in their tournaments that would win the match up (and even then its probably much closer to a coin flip than any APA or BCA basher wants to admit).

Both leagues at the top level have tons of strong players (I consider masters the top level obviously).

Before anyone fires off their comments about the list of players I choose. I picked them specifically since Jason also took 2nd in BCA Grandmasters that year as well (one spot higher than SVB, not bad for an APA banger).
 
flash5153 said:
I will agree with that,,,,, you would then have a match on hand. Is there something that would make you think ,you still need 15 balls??

Now,,, one problem I see. Get 5 APA 7s in the same room and it might take a few hours of arguing about who the captain is,,lol and about taking the slop away. ( no champion BCA player is going to play slop)

It would be a good match though.:smile:
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i should have read on to this see this. believe me we have ridiculous people playing as "7's" here in GA. and trust me, most of them play bca as well so the rules change wouldn't bother them, and no they wouldn't give a shit about being captain either. i wonder if they would be angry if i listed names? most of them are open bca and apa players anyway. i can give a list of just 7's from here in georgia that if you let them form an apa "team" it would be ridiculous, never mind the rest of the country.
i have said it before, i don't know what the apa looks like in the rest of the country but here in the atlanta area it's pretty damn tough. especially because a lot of the better players play in multiple leagues. so they transend the usual rules and format arguments.
 
APA players

Kirkwood an APA banger? That's a good one. I've never seen anybody play stronger on a diamond BB than he can.

Well all know the average APA player is well below a BCA player so I'm not sure where this thread is going. Would it be cool to watch the one team champ play the other, well sure. Probably never going to happen though since these leagues all are after the same markets.
 
I played Sal Butera at mini mania this year. He has an APA number. There are a number of guys like him across the nation that play jam up pool and are on apa. The single national roster is always full of guys running 2/3/4/5 racks on those bar boxes. Guys like Brisbon, Ernesto Bayaua, Jeff Sergeant, etc. APA does mostly suck ass on the local level and its totally understandable how people can think that its just a bunch of bangers.

The sheer numbers of players registered in the APA means that there are quite a few GREAT players lurking in the weeds among the masses of ball bangers.
 
u12armresl said:
But then you are cherry picking. You aren't taking an APA team.
The thread is APA vs BCA team, not pick the master's champ and then add the open champ, plus take the mixed double team + the super single (my head hurts from all this math)

It's APA team against BCA team and in that I believe it's a conscenous that APA falls well short. If you let BCA cherry pick, well then that would be 5 of the best players in the world.
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Actually this thread is about two specific teams, the national champions of each league. Because of the rule of 23 I would think the BCA champions would have an edge. Having said that, from what I've heard of the APA the true speed of most APA champion teams is probably over 23. But giving the benefit of the doubt to the legitimacy of the APA handicap system enforcement, you would have to figure the BCA team would generally be stronger.

If you could pick any 5 guys from either league to form two teams it would probably be a toss up, maybe even advantage APA. They do have way more players in their population.
 
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flash5153 said:
I will agree with that,,,,, you would then have a match on hand. Is there something that would make you think ,you still need 15 balls??

Now,,, one problem I see. Get 5 APA 7s in the same room and it might take a few hours of arguing about who the captain is,,lol and about taking the slop away. ( no champion BCA player is going to play slop)

It would be a good match though.:smile:
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The 15 ball thing was in response to another poster and since you brought up the slop factor the only sure thing is that you wouldn't be one of the 10 players in the match.
 
rope_one said:
This thread is is just so much blowing hard about nothing.

1. Yes if you talk normal teams, BCA has no handicap limit for a 5 man teams and APA does, so that's apples and oranges.

2. APA doesn't have a limit in the masters division, but that happens to be 3 man teams. Here's a Master's team that happened to win it all in 2006 that's a pretty good representation of potential at APA masters players:

Kenneth Brisbon, Jason Kirkwood and Richard Schmiegel, Jr.

I think that's a pretty good starting 3 to compete with any team period.

The comments about slop is misinformed at best. No player of that caliber ever significantly uses slops during a match. However, I guarantee the bigger rule that makes 8 ball too easy that they would want to keep is from BCA not APA and that's open after the break. That rule has a much bigger impact on a game of 8 ball than slop ever had with that level of player.

I don't even see the point of the conversation really it just a matter of who leaves the strongest borderline pro's in their tournaments that would win the match up (and even then its probably much closer to a coin flip than any APA or BCA basher wants to admit).

Both leagues at the top level have tons of strong players (I consider masters the top level obviously).

Before anyone fires off their comments about the list of players I choose. I picked them specifically since Jason also took 2nd in BCA Grandmasters that year as well (one spot higher than SVB, not bad for an APA banger).
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You explained this very well. I agree with ,,open after break being a huge difference.
There's no way to follow each leagues rules for a team,,and then try to play them against each other ,,,,and be fair. The format for a legal team is just too far apart.
And if you start picking the best of the best from each league,,it doesn't make much sense because the same people play in both leagues. Could go on about picking teams forever and has nothing to do with what league people play on!!!

I'm done with it,,it was a silly question and got people thinking way too hard about how it could possibly be done
 
I heard Jesse Bowman just joined APA today...they started him as a 4 since he is a new player. Still interested?
 
flash5153 said:
I will agree with that,,,,, you would then have a match on hand. Is there something that would make you think ,you still need 15 balls??

Now,,, one problem I see. Get 5 APA 7s in the same room and it might take a few hours of arguing about who the captain is,,lol and about taking the slop away. ( no champion BCA player is going to play slop)

It would be a good match though.:smile:
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why would it be any different than getting top bca players together and choosing a captain ? there is no slop in apa masters, top level apa players dont play slop shots. yea it would be a good match :smile:
 
flash5153 said:
I see your strategy but you are out gunned not matter how you look at it. Do you really think that team can beat 5 BCA 9's? Or if you converted it to APA,,,,,,, 5 sevens??

They are not meant to be matched up. And if they were,,,it's a matter of what handicap system to use. Well at least that's what comes to mind.. But it does not make a difference.
It's just not a fair match-up.

Tell me what rules,handicap system is used where your APA team has a chance to win,,where in this scenario you are playing 5 APA 7s.
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why not use 5 players that are the same handicap in their respective leagues ? there are s/l 9s in apa 9 ball.
 
u12armresl said:
Plus how does 5*7 = the APA # rule? You said APA team which means you have to play by the number of points allowed on one team.

If you take 5 7's then you don't have an APA team, you have 5 people who are 7's in the APA. And even then you can get played by teams.

Just of the top of my head, there is a super team in MN, IN, OH, and a few other places. When I say super team, I mean top to bottom no weaknesses, people who would match up with 99% of all pool players.

You've got Bowman teams, Nevel teams, J Miller Adkins team, and 2 really good Indiana teams.

Also some of those really good players are the 7 on an APA team so can't pull double duty.

Brickyard here in town has a wonderful set up for just such an event if you think you have the players, would be fun to sweat.
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you are contradicting yourself :o. you say that apa players have no chance and here you say there are some very good apa players on the above teams you mentioned that happen to play bca also ?
 
Spimp13 said:
I heard Jesse Bowman just joined APA today...they started him as a 4 since he is a new player. Still interested?
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you heard WRONG...due to known ability the league operator decided to start him off as a 5. He is on the league operator's team though :rolleyes::p
 
There's no contradiction, there are good APA players, but show me any 2 or any 4 who is going to play a world champion 7. The BCA team is going to be stacked from bottom to top.

lorider said:
you are contradicting yourself :o. you say that apa players have no chance and here you say there are some very good apa players on the above teams you mentioned that happen to play bca also ?
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Does the OP really want to get a match down? There are several interested parties.

There has never been a team streamed challenge match (not talking about Mosconi) but a real challenge match.
 
Black Cat 5791 said:
I'll take my 7, 2 6's & 2 2's and play what ever regular team you find BCA or otherwise and then you come tell me we don't have a chance. Some of you people are a plain joke. No league is better or worse than any other, there's not enough top players anywhere to make a single league or division so great that they'd beat any team they matched up against.

And by the way that is one of my real line up's available anytime I choose to play it. I win 3 matches on any given night and we win it all.

Black Cat :angry:
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My BCA 8 ball team had to spot one team 14 points per round and we won!!! That being said my team consisted of 5 players that all played at at least a SL7 rating!!!! There isnt a point limit on your team in the BCA so we couldve had all 8's and 9's if we wanted to. Im not saying your team couldnt win but i like a well groomed BCA teams odds!!!


One team that join in my last season had get this.... Are you ready??? NO i mean are you ready ready!!!????


Tony Chohan
Michelle Rakin
Amar Kang
Bryce Aliva (cant spell)
and some other strong subs!!!!

Its horrible that this team you see above^^^^ sandbagged the league all year long so that their handicaps would be really low. Quite classless and disgusting in my eyes because we tried our hardest to be the best!!!!

When it came time for our team to play their team we had to spot them 6 points per round. "F"ing BS!!!!!! :angry:
 
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So to get this straight you are wanting a team that is from a league designed for amateurs compared to a team that is from a league that is open? That's kinda silly. The BCAPL national champ is from where I'm at also a guy who placed top 10 in the APA singles last year is also from where I'm at. I bet the APA guy would give the BCAPL guy a helluva run for his money. On any table. It would almost be a coin flip difference. Also APA pays more. So this conversation is really irrelevant. :) I know some hardcore APA players and some BCAPL players that are hardcore. Both leagues are good. One is designed for people whom want to learn and the other one is well the other one. I play both. But I'm partial to the APA because the handicap makes it harder in my personal opinion.
 
master9baller said:
Kirkwood an APA banger? That's a good one. I've never seen anybody play stronger on a diamond BB than he can.

Well all know the average APA player is well below a BCA player so I'm not sure where this thread is going. Would it be cool to watch the one team champ play the other, well sure. Probably never going to happen though since these leagues all are after the same markets.
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Shows whut U know, J Kirkwood was an APA banger a few years ago :eek::frown::rolleyes:
 
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