Roger you realize this post makes too much sense for the topic?
Just kidding, this is pretty much the long and short of it and most people can't accept that people play for different reasons.
APA - What a Rip Off.
- Thread starter mongoose-
- Start date
Roger you realize this post makes too much sense for the topic?
Just kidding, this is pretty much the long and short of it and most people can't accept that people play for different reasons.
Anybody who joins any league to make money is a fool, just like anybody who walks in a casino to make money is a fool. It is just a place to play pool. They're in the entertainment business, if you're not entertained go someplace else.
mongoose-
Banned
From what I understand they aren't very happy but the MAJORITY of the players in that are lured for that FREE trip to Vegas & can't add 2 + 2 anyway. Suckers are born every day I guess... just glad it isn't me.
And anyone who can post here that taking $3800 out of a $4800 purse is justified is full of SH** period. I haven't seen anyone say they was in a league for the money but in this thread... either way you look at it that take out of "the players money" is ridiculous.
Its amazing to me that people here complain so much about the APA making a profit. Thats what businesses do --hopefully.
Do you really think that a bottle water company doesnt make a fortune. Or that a pet food company doesnt make 300-400% profit?
I cant imagine going through everyday totally looking at who I am doing business with and worrying about how much they are charging.
We can only hope that its fair and operated correctly.
I wonder just how many times the complainers actually thank a place for doing it in a manner that they apporve of. How many times they tell the owners that they appreciate the good rates etc.. I bet it isnt nearly as often or emotional as the complaints.
Do you really think that a bottle water company doesnt make a fortune. Or that a pet food company doesnt make 300-400% profit?
I cant imagine going through everyday totally looking at who I am doing business with and worrying about how much they are charging.
We can only hope that its fair and operated correctly.
I wonder just how many times the complainers actually thank a place for doing it in a manner that they apporve of. How many times they tell the owners that they appreciate the good rates etc.. I bet it isnt nearly as often or emotional as the complaints.
You keep talking about this purse as the division winner being the final payout of that $4,800... They paid $1,000 of it to the winner of the division. From there they qualify for the next level tournament (cities, regionals, etc, depending on how the LO does it in that area). Once you win your division you don't pay the fee's in the high level tournaments.
Maybe the LO in that area does take a huge portion of the money paid in, maybe they don't. Until you know how many teams they have, how many and how much they get paid in higher level tournaments, how many they send to Vegas, and how much each team gets in travel assistance, you can't say they are taking $3,800 out of the purse as you're only seeing a tiny portion of the purse. The purse is all the payouts in all the various forms for the entire session, not just that one divisions winner.
And don't just look at the "cash" prize. Think of the cost for plaques, t-shirts, etc for teams that won different awards that may be in that division. There is the cost of the patches that people win for different accomplishments.
So, when you come back with the breakdown of how all the money is spent and what % goes back to the players when you factor in the entire session/year you can continue to *****. As you only have _ONE_ number out of many and using that to make your assumptions you're just showing ignorance.
Brian
Ok Roger, I agree with the part about some players just wanting to have fun. But, I have to disagree with the ACS having strong competition. I have played with many leagues, starting out in the Falcon Leagues which became the VNEA. Later I went into the BCA, VNEA, ACS, APA and finally back to the BCA. The reason I switched around was that our league operator switched one year from the BCA to the ACS.
I was very happy playing in the BCA which has 600 to 800 open teams show up to Vegas each year. When we arrive to play, we have to visit the brackets and see which one we are in and when we play. Well, 3 years ago we tried out the ACS and upon arriving in Vegas, I said to my team mate "let's go check out and see what bracket we are in"? Guess what, there was only 1 bracket for all the open teams. It was a 128 team bracket and was not even full, there were about 96 teams in total. I'm not saying the competition was bad, just not a very good turnout.
Ok, back to OP. I also play in a APA Masters team which after we win the city championship, we have our whole trip payed for. I like the format of race to 7 in the Masters. I don't think I could ever play in the APA handicap league because after having a few beers, I don't think I would be able to score correctly. It's much easier to mark a win or loss lol.
I have to agree with Paul. This is a social League with possibilities of cash and trips to Vegas. I also Captain an 8 ball team that lost in the finals for Vegas last year, and played on a 9 ball team than won the trip, so I can't complain. League Operators in some places do pay $1.00 per person per night in green fees, plus they do have to pay a royalty on each player that plays that night.
We have three "Money Cups" ( $10,000) each year and the "Vegas Cup" ( 2 8 ball teams and 1 9 ball team wins)for both 8 ball and 9 ball and the payouts are fair and the trips run about $4000.00 per team x 3. But yes the LO is running a business.
This is a small 48 team franchise.
I enjoy the time with people who enjoy the same hobby. Yes, I don't make a living playing pool.....not many do.
My $.02
Dom
does anyone (the complainers)actually have a clue how much time is put into entering score sheets and dealing with dues and renewals and such??? my wife does all of ours for our tap league and ill bet she puts in 15 hrs a week for this alone after she works her normal 45-50 hr 6 day a week job, so i tell you the league operators are not making a killing, step back and look at the real deal guys, put yourself into this, would you work for free? NO, also dont you realize that all those free trips are paid for by the lo, not to mention all the time setting up reservations and rental cars and so on. so think a little more about the people who provide you these services and the time they put in for you!!!!!
keep in mind some leagues offer nice amenites also besides free practice, we have 9 diamond bar boxes with simonis cloth and aramith balls, tell me who has that (im sure we arnt the only ones)? its just the point, we have league 4 nights a week and about to 5, so all those night you all play practice for free we cant make a dime on the hourly rate charged for those tables, so league does help keep the doors open to some of the places you all frequent and enjoy. and play many many games of pool!
keep in mind some leagues offer nice amenites also besides free practice, we have 9 diamond bar boxes with simonis cloth and aramith balls, tell me who has that (im sure we arnt the only ones)? its just the point, we have league 4 nights a week and about to 5, so all those night you all play practice for free we cant make a dime on the hourly rate charged for those tables, so league does help keep the doors open to some of the places you all frequent and enjoy. and play many many games of pool!
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Your LO was generous. Our first place team got a trophy and about $20 PP. plus the chance to play in the state tournament for a "chance" to go to Vegas. The rest of us got the old RD. Didn't get enough back to buy a drink. And from what I have heard the money that you get may not be enough to pay for the air fare and requires about 4 players to a room. The thing about this is some teams have female players and from the looks of them I don't want to be in the same room. Plus my wife wouldn't let me go to Vegas without her and I wouldn't want to either so it would cost me more than it is worth.
Right now I have a 7 day trip planned for Vegas in June. All the nights have been comped and all I have to do is pay for the air. Don't have to meet anyones schedule and can really enjoy it without all the BS. Don't need the APA to go there.
APA is a franchise. I look at it as nothing more than a night out to enjoy competition without fights. Don't depend or rely on money back. It costs $8 if I play and that is a cheap night out. If I wanted or needed the money I would do something else.
Right now I have a 7 day trip planned for Vegas in June. All the nights have been comped and all I have to do is pay for the air. Don't have to meet anyones schedule and can really enjoy it without all the BS. Don't need the APA to go there.
APA is a franchise. I look at it as nothing more than a night out to enjoy competition without fights. Don't depend or rely on money back. It costs $8 if I play and that is a cheap night out. If I wanted or needed the money I would do something else.
tap tap tap!!! Leave it to a golfer and they'll pay an arm and a leg for anything that allows them to play. A pool player expects someone else to pay for it!
tim
REPOST
You could have just searched
If ya want leagues, pay da money and have fun.....if ya want cash back, you can get a game for $5 a rack at almost any pool hall....put in some work, it's not all that hard to make $100 a week.....20 weeks, $2k, take a trip to Vegas or anywhere ya want :thumbup:
EDIT - forgot to add, instead of someone else using a magic formula, when you match up on your own, you get to negotiate and handicap your own matches.....even more fun...
You could have just searched
If ya want leagues, pay da money and have fun.....if ya want cash back, you can get a game for $5 a rack at almost any pool hall....put in some work, it's not all that hard to make $100 a week.....20 weeks, $2k, take a trip to Vegas or anywhere ya want :thumbup:
EDIT - forgot to add, instead of someone else using a magic formula, when you match up on your own, you get to negotiate and handicap your own matches.....even more fun...
I tried the APA and even though my experience wasn't 100% positive, I'd probably do it again.
As so many others have posted, you do not go into it looking to make money. You are paying to play, just like you'd pay table time to play if there were no league. Maybe it's more expensive than just playing with a buddy, but it also offers the chance to win money back and you're getting a different kind of competition and a social thing (for lack of a better word).
I can see why the original poster would feel like it's a ripoff, but apparently he's in the minority... the APA is the most successful and it's not just marketing. If people truly hated losing 70-90% of that weekly seven bucks, the league would have shrivelled up and died.
I was guaranteed at least 5-7 games for my 7 bucks, nevermind free practice, so I can't really say it's a ripoff. Yeah, it seems that way if you see the league operator rolling in dough... but I don't mind donating to someone who helps brings people to the table and gets an amateur to take pool more seriously. And anyway I dunno if he's as rich as he sounds. He can't singlehandedly be running all 250 without paying people to help? If the guy's making a half million bucks I'll be pretty shocked. Maybe he is?!
As so many others have posted, you do not go into it looking to make money. You are paying to play, just like you'd pay table time to play if there were no league. Maybe it's more expensive than just playing with a buddy, but it also offers the chance to win money back and you're getting a different kind of competition and a social thing (for lack of a better word).
I can see why the original poster would feel like it's a ripoff, but apparently he's in the minority... the APA is the most successful and it's not just marketing. If people truly hated losing 70-90% of that weekly seven bucks, the league would have shrivelled up and died.
I was guaranteed at least 5-7 games for my 7 bucks, nevermind free practice, so I can't really say it's a ripoff. Yeah, it seems that way if you see the league operator rolling in dough... but I don't mind donating to someone who helps brings people to the table and gets an amateur to take pool more seriously. And anyway I dunno if he's as rich as he sounds. He can't singlehandedly be running all 250 without paying people to help? If the guy's making a half million bucks I'll be pretty shocked. Maybe he is?!
Thanks for your reply to my question. Think you are correct about people being lured at time.
I LIKE THIS ONE........
IT'S VERY VERY TRUE. I DON'T GOLF ALOT, BUT I HAVE SOME FANATICAL BUDDIES ABOUT GOLF, AND THE MONEY THEY SPEND TO "GET BETTER" IS ASTOUNDING.
ON THE OTHER HAND, EVERY DAY THAT I'M IN MY POOLROOM IT BAFFLES ME ON HOW CHEAP POOL PLAYERS REALLY CAN BE......... THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR A 10 DOLLAR TIP-PIK, THEY EXPECT ME TO OPEN A NEW ONE, PIK THE TIP FOR THEM, AND THAN JUST RECLOSE THE PIK AND HANG IT BACK UP. OR, THEY WHINE ABOUT PAYING 8 DOLLARS FOR MY 6 HOUR DAILY SPECIAL, AND THAN HAVE THE NERVE TO DUMP OUT A COFFE POT THAT IS AN HOUR OLD AND EXPECT NEW STUFF. (MY COFFEE IS FREE)
P.S. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE APA, OR CAN'T AFFORD IT, PLAY IN ANOTHER LEAGUE, OR DON'T PLAY.
Marcus
i second that, we play for fun/competition, if you wanna play for a living, get better and turn pro. otherwise come enjoy the evening like we do and join us in some great bs and story telling. were else can you enjoy a full evening for $7 (in our league). hell a movie and a soda is 12.00 and thats only 2 hrs if your lucky.
Just my 2 cents...
Without reading 3 pages of people sniveling that they aren't getting paid to play pool here is my 2 cents:
League play is supposed to be for fun, comradery, competition, and socialization.
The trip to Vegas, the point money, and singles boards are just bonuses to make it a little more fun.
When you go to a movie is it free? How about Dinner?
How about a softball team?
Golf Course?
LOs have plenty of expenses to cover.
Think of all the paper work. This includes computer time, printer ink, paper, envelopes, stamps.....
Organization...Making the schedules, changing the schedules, remitting the schedules...(more paper, ink, time, mailing)
Planning/Scheduling..Scheduling the season around holidays, busy vacation times. Planning the events and securing the locations. Putting together and recruiting help for the "City Cup" (regionals)
This is these people's jobs. Everyone has to make a living and some do it by owning a golf course, resturaunt, operating on brains, building pool cues..etc
Why should a LO earn 75,000 a year? Why should a football player earn 3,000,000 a year?
League play is entertainment that we pay for on a weekly basis. People who expect all the money back to the players crack me up. Consider it icing on the cake to get back point money or a "free" trip to Vegas.
Sheesh!
Without reading 3 pages of people sniveling that they aren't getting paid to play pool here is my 2 cents:
League play is supposed to be for fun, comradery, competition, and socialization.
The trip to Vegas, the point money, and singles boards are just bonuses to make it a little more fun.
When you go to a movie is it free? How about Dinner?
How about a softball team?
Golf Course?
LOs have plenty of expenses to cover.
Think of all the paper work. This includes computer time, printer ink, paper, envelopes, stamps.....
Organization...Making the schedules, changing the schedules, remitting the schedules...(more paper, ink, time, mailing)
Planning/Scheduling..Scheduling the season around holidays, busy vacation times. Planning the events and securing the locations. Putting together and recruiting help for the "City Cup" (regionals)
This is these people's jobs. Everyone has to make a living and some do it by owning a golf course, resturaunt, operating on brains, building pool cues..etc
Why should a LO earn 75,000 a year? Why should a football player earn 3,000,000 a year?
League play is entertainment that we pay for on a weekly basis. People who expect all the money back to the players crack me up. Consider it icing on the cake to get back point money or a "free" trip to Vegas.
Sheesh!
at $320.00 dollars a week the LO is really getting rich. and then he has to put up with a bunch of people that want to ***** ***** ***** some more. doesn't really seem worth it.
you hit the bulls eye, pool players are cheap, and because of that fact they dont have much comming back, the pool players economy is in a constant recession-because they are cheap. If they wernt cheap there would be more loose $$ circulating in their economy. They think being cheap is the way to make $$$, it aint,- if it was all pool players would be rich.