APBU Bans Players

[onepocketchump]

There are two things that are standing for the WPA:

1: the sanction fee is there to support pool world wide, not only one tournament with big bucks but also Wheelchair pool or kids pool. This is very importuned for the sport and believe me the sport can't survive with KT way. Dividing the million per tournament among the top 50 players of the world is nice BUT there are millions of other players.

BS. Please provide proof of any tournaments/organizations in the United States which have received any money FROM the WPA. The WPA sold out the men's World Championships without doing anything for the Women and Juniors.

2: Sources tell me that the WPA gave KT an offer for a free sanction by the WPA but he declined that offer because he doesn't recognize any other organization. Not even the WPA that have taken care of all the players for the last 23 years.
I know that if KT would like to organize the biggest tournament in the world and would work together with the WPA thing would be very good for all players. But KT decided to ignore them and organize a World Pool Championship 8-ball with 2 players.......

If so then why did the WPA then ask for $150,000? Did they feel that KT would recognize them if they put a price tag on the sanctioning. The hard, cold truth is that KT does not NEED WPA sanctioning. If he did then he would of paid the $150,000 without blinking. But he knows who is who in the pool world and knows who he needs to deal with and who he does not. That is the failure of the WPA and the BCA.

John

 

[Dr. Dissent]

As good as Bustamante and Reyes are they are getting up in age and are not at their peak anymore. Yet they both have a pretty good chance to do very well in the IPT. If they spend 2006 playing in the IPT will their earnings surpass what they could possibly earn with the WPA? If they are banned by the WPA will that affect the contracts they have with their sponsors? Will they lose popularity with their home country fans?

Gee. I wish I had those problems and decisions to make.

Reyes, Bustamante, Alex, Manalo, should have no problems deciding, but other Filipino players would have to think about it.

Let's take another example, this time the CPB (Confederation Panamerica of Billiards (CPB) - Region: South America. Ernesto Dominguez and Morro Paez belong to this region. These two could live with a ban by the CPB because the CPB does not promote money tournaments in the Region. Dominguez and Paez make their living in the US but what about the other South American players selected by the IPT?

Acosta, Gonzalez, Calderon, Franken, Carvajal. I do not recognize these names. I don't think they have played in the U.S. I guess Acosta made it to the WPC a few years ago but that is it. Franken was in last year's World 8 Ball Championship that Efren Reyes won but I don't know his game. Would these players be willing to risk a ban from the CPB? Are they happy with the CPB or are they ready to let go and risk playing for the IPT. Only these players know.

The BCA is inoperative in the USA. I guess they don't have players to impose a ban to, and if they had, I don't think the US players would care much about it.

We dont know what the EPBF (European Pocket Billiard Federation), AAPA (All Africa Pool Association) or what the Oceania Pocket Billiard Association (OPBA) players will do but one thing is for sure. Anyone who is not a top player in the World, would have to seriously think about what the ban could do to them.

It is not that simple or easy for some players........

 

[Dr. Dissent]

At least he picked a fitting name... Dr. Dissent

Thank you Kimberly, it was my intention to pick a fitting name.

Definition of dissension...

Main Entry: dis·sen·sion
Variant(s): also dis·sen·tion /di-'sen(t)-sh&n/
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin dissension-, dissensio, from dissentire
: DISAGREEMENT; especially : partisan and contentious quarreling

Other Definitions:

1. To differ in belief or opinion: disagree.
2. To reject the doctrines and forms of an established church.
3. The rendering of a minority opinion in the decision of a law case.
4. Religious nonconformity.

If we take the "church" out of these definitions and replace the word with WPA or APBU, you will see why I am dessenting.

By the way Dr. Dissent, I didn't happen to catch your name. What is the reason behind hiding behind a screen name?

My name is Dissent, Dr. Dissent. Do you get my drift?.....

 

[JAM]

...When Mr. Strickland was banned from the UPA....

Sorry to interrupt this nice discourse about the pros and cons of WPA sanctioning, but just for the record, Earl Strickland was NOT banned from the UPA. He quit due to reasons which are well known within the American pool community.

Carry on, if you must, Dr. Dissent, but you're barking up the wrong tree on this forum, unless you enjoying being in the minority party!

LONG LIVE THE IPT!

JAM

 

[Snapshot9]

It is not a surprise ...

That when someone that 'thinks outside the box' and
can support their ideas would cause waves within
disjointed Pool community organizations. How dare you
defy us and our procedures? Except none of them has
enough power to wield to prevent it, try as they may.
Gosh, those other organizations might really have to go
work, change, and start thinking about the players then.
I hope the IPT succeeds because our sport has been desperate
for a long time for better promotion, better image, and
more recognition in the public's eye. Heck, KT might even
end up being responsible for many youth programs sprouting
up, getting out sport into the Olympics, and putting big
dreams again into the heads of many a Pool player.

In my opinion, our sport is going to end being better in
the long run, whether the IPT is a success or not, hopefully
it is though.

 

[Gabber]

Do you actually read other posts?

Why do think that Kevin is using pool for this venture and not golf.
John

Like you siad- he wouldnt have a tournament with any top players!
Or maybe its because he only has to flash a few $$s around and everyone wants to jump on the gravy train so badly, they are even prepared to put all their faith in a snake oil salesman, who up till now has done diddely squat for the game.

Berry said,
"Sources tell me that the WPA gave KT an offer for a free sanction by the WPA but he declined that offer because he doesn't recognize any other organization. "

It must be pretty obvious by now that KT wants to divide the pool world. IMO, he wants to force a split. If the rest of the pool world decides to ban all IPT players from their tournys, those players will be the mercy of KT!
They wont be able to play anywhere else!
He could cut the payouts by 50% and they wouldnt be able to do anything about it!
He could hold the next meeting at the North Pole and disqualify all those who didnt attend!
He could call all the Euros faggots and insist they wear pink tutus when playing.


The list is endless.......................

For the WPA to be able to promote pool around the world, they need sponsers and to attract sponsers, they need to be able to sell their tournaments. They need the top players. Their job is to avoid tournaments conflicting with each other.

What would be your reaction if KT decided to hold a tourny at the same time as the US Open. Would you see that as being good for pool?
What would happen to the IPT players who choose [ out of loyalty] to play Barry's tourny?
Make no mistake about it, they would be out of the IPT.

Think about it.

Gabber

 

[DaveK]

World Curling Tour? OMG! Tell me they have huge Corporate sponsorship and all their players are rich.

I was watching a late-season tournament final last spring, I'm not sure what 'tour'. The commentators said that one of the (4 person) teams had won about $400K to that point, and they stood to win the $75K first prize money in that one. Top team members can make $100K in the 3 or 4 month season, enough that lots quit their jobs or make arrangements for a leave of absence for a few months. Of course not all the players are rich, but it pays well if you are good. Moderate professional curlers would make more than the best Canadian pool pros. Yes, there are major corporate sponsors in curling, and lots of television coverage.

The best curlers are also household names in Canada. You must realize what status the game enjoys here in Canada. Every small town, and we have many small towns, has a curling rink. They build it right after they finish the hockey rink A few of these small towns may have pool halls.

Several years ago I was on a sales call with a very nice fellow from Winnipeg. I commented on the number of good curlers that his firm employed. He replied "ya, but my wife has something none of them have ... an Olympic gold medal".

Dave

 

[jjinfla]

If, If, If If. So many If's.

So negative, so pessamistic. How do you get through each day.

Trying to divide the pool world. Laughable

Conflict with the US Open. Don't think so according to the 2006 IPT schedule. You are thinking of the UPA. (Couldn't resist)

So far the IPT has held one event. I think the participants liked it. I think the spectators liked it.

Nov 30th will be the second event. Let's see what the 43 (plus Mike) participants think of that event. Let's see what the spectators think of it.

Pool players will go play wherever they think they can make money. They really do not care who is running the event or what it is called. Their loyalty is strictly to Benjamin. With a few exceptions. A few men and most of the women.

So far everything I see or hear about the IPT seems to be positive and what they say is happening. Their website is good. I had no problem talking to a real person when I ordered tickets for Orlando. I am looking forward to seeing a bunch of celebrities - both on the tables and in the spectator seats. Just follow the poparatzi (sp).

And why not do it in golf? How ridiculous. You finish 100 in the PGA and you win close to $100,000. And make a million in sponsorships.

 

[Gabber]

Tisk, tisk

If, If, If If. So many If's.thats my whole point!

So negative, so pessamistic. How do you get through each day.Who knows!

Trying to divide the pool world. LaughableYou think so?

Conflict with the US Open. Don't think so according to the 2006 IPT schedule. You are thinking of the UPA. (Couldn't resist)What if he does? What if he changes the schedule?

So far the IPT has held one event. You call that an event? I think the participants liked it. Yeah- BOTH of them. LMAO I think the spectators liked it.So you dont know for sure?

Nov 30th will be the second event. It might be an event, but its not a normal tounry! Let's see what the 43 (plus Mike) participants think of that event. Let's see what the spectators think of it.

Pool players will go play wherever they think they can make money. Exactly! The whole problem with US pro pool has been that the players have NEVER been united! They really do not care who is running the event or what it is called. Their loyalty is strictly to Benjamin. With a few exceptions. A few men and most of the women.

So far everything I see or hear about the IPT seems to be positive and what they say is happening. You are basing this opinion on chit-chat and the massive INFOMERCIAL that has been running on the web- ESPECIALLY on this forum! Their website is good. I had no problem talking to a real person when I ordered tickets for Orlando. A multi-million enterprise with a supposedly massive budget is selling tickets to an event , that hasnt even been publicised, before they have even confirmed the venue!
Have they ever said on that website how many tickets are available? I am looking forward to seeing a bunch of celebrities - both on the tables and in the spectator seats. Just follow the poparatzi (sp).

And why not do it in golf? How ridiculous. You finish 100 in the PGA and you win close to $100,000. And make a million in sponsorships.

In golf, you cant buy the whole tour by flashing a wad of cash and making promises! Especially when you have a history of of making false promises/claims. He hasnt been BANNED from TV for nothing you know!
All I,m saying is, that based on the history of KT, we should doubt his intentions until he has proved otherwise.

Gabber

 

[straybullet]

Berry said,
"Sources tell me that the WPA gave KT an offer for a free sanction by the WPA but he declined that offer because he doesn't recognize any other organization. "


Gabber

This is that "disastrous fallout" that Blackjack referred to in one of the other threads. It is the IPT's choice not to be part of the WPA. By flatly refusing to pay the WPA sanctioning fee, they are showing that thye do not want to be part of the "International" community. I think that this forces the players to have to choose sides, which is unfair. These players just want to play (and make money). I don't view this as a strong arm tactic to harm players, it looks as if it is a show of unity in opposition to this tour. The players are caught in the middle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Why doesn't this guy just pay the amount of the sanctioning? Supposedly he is a bejillionaire, why would it matter? Is it because he wants to be the top guy and not have to answer to anybody? I understand the fact that he has all this money and he can do whatever he wants to do, but that type of attitude wreaks of isolationism. Wouldn't it be to his advantage to work with the WPA and be a leader in the community as opposed to thumbing his nose at them? From a business standpoint this makes absolutely no sense to me. I would think that if he wanted to help the game of pool globally, that he would try to become a member of the community and try to improve it with his money, his connections, and his influence. If I am missing something here somebody please respectfully explain this to me with facts, not wishful thinking or woo-woo stuff that supports one side or the other. I'm just curious.

 

[Timberly]

Thank you Kimberly, it was my intention to pick a fitting name.

My name is Timberly (I didn't realize how much "T" looks like "K" )

I still haven't seen your name... your surname, not the one your choosing to hide behind.

 

[onepocketchump]

I was wondering when you would get around to me. Don't come at me like an ass please and I'll be courteous to you.

Like you siad- he wouldnt have a tournament with any top players!
Or maybe its because he only has to flash a few $$s around and everyone wants to jump on the gravy train so badly, they are even prepared to put all their faith in a snake oil salesman, who up till now has done diddely squat for the game.

Well, isn't it sad that the organizations that have been in place for 20-50 years couldn't get it done so that the players don't HAVE to rely on the benevolence of promoters? Why don't you direct your criticism where it belongs. I am sure that you would have a problem with ANY millionaire who started a pool tour. I am positive that you would find ANY reason to be negative about what you think are their motivations.

Berry said,
"Sources tell me that the WPA gave KT an offer for a free sanction by the WPA but he declined that offer because he doesn't recognize any other organization. "

It must be pretty obvious by now that KT wants to divide the pool world. IMO, he wants to force a split. If the rest of the pool world decides to ban all IPT players from their tournys, those players will be the mercy of KT!
They wont be able to play anywhere else!
He could cut the payouts by 50% and they wouldnt be able to do anything about it!
He could hold the next meeting at the North Pole and disqualify all those who didnt attend!
He could call all the Euros faggots and insist they wear pink tutus when playing.

He could do all of those things and there are those that would go along with it and those that would not. The point IS that neither you nor anyone else has an alternative that is the least bit attractive or financially viable to the PLAYERS - you remember them don't you, the ones whose livlihoods you want to dictate without any substance.

The list is endless.......................

For the WPA to be able to promote pool around the world, they need sponsers and to attract sponsers, they need to be able to sell their tournaments. They need the top players. Their job is to avoid tournaments conflicting with each other.

What would be your reaction if KT decided to hold a tourny at the same time as the US Open. Would you see that as being good for pool?
What would happen to the IPT players who choose [ out of loyalty] to play Barry's tourny?
Make no mistake about it, they would be out of the IPT.

Think about it.

Gabber

As I said before, and which you either did not read, comprehend or just chose to ignore, the WPA has had 20 years to refine and sell it's produict AND IT FAILED.

If KT put up a tournament against the US Open and the stipulation was that if you play in that one you can't be a part of this one then that's the way it is. I wouldn't much care for that stipulation, just like I don't care for the APBU doing it but I would have to live with it. Again, it is the FAILURE of the WPA and all the other acronymiuos groups in pool which is to blame for the POSSIBILITY of ONE PERSON having a shot at OWNING professional pool.

And anyway, we have all lost sight of the fact that the WPA is supposed to be an AMATEUR organization, why are they meddling in professional pool anyway?

But all I have seen from you Gabber is NEGATIVE SPECULATION. Put you money where your mouth is and bet something on what you think will happen. Then we will see whether you actually are convinced of the nonsense you spout or whether you just want to be contrary for the fun of it.

John

 

[pete lafond]

Can you guys expound on your statements of "weak" and "stupid"? I am sure everyone knows why you are saying these things and there are of course arguements for both sides. I figured a forum like this is to share information, not just call people names.

Have WPA pay more money to the players and there is no problem. Otherwise they are being very unfair to the players.

 

[pete lafond]

Berry said,
"Sources tell me that the WPA gave KT an offer for a free sanction by the WPA but he declined that offer because he doesn't recognize any other organization. "

If this is the WPA stand, then I suggest that the remaining players ban together and create their own billiards organization. Many of these tours would have to go with this new association because ther would not be any players left.

Why can't the WPA live with everyone?

 

[Rich R.]

Why doesn't this guy just pay the amount of the sanctioning? Supposedly he is a bejillionaire, why would it matter?

There is much more involved than the sanctioning fee.
If KT were to join the WPA and pay the fee, the WPA would want a say in the format of the IPT tournaments and the player selection. It is obvious that KT has some strong ideas about who he wants in these tournaments and how they should be run.
Since he is putting up the money, why should he let someone else decide how that money is spent?

 

[pete lafond]

This is that "disastrous fallout" that Blackjack referred to in one of the other threads. It is the IPT's choice not to be part of the WPA. By flatly refusing to pay the WPA sanctioning fee, they are showing that thye do not want to be part of the "International" community. I think that this forces the players to have to choose sides, which is unfair. These players just want to play (and make money). I don't view this as a strong arm tactic to harm players, it looks as if it is a show of unity in opposition to this tour. The players are caught in the middle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

.

This is every reason we need a professional billiards organization. Maybe IPT will fill the bill.

 

[onepocketchump]

This is that "disastrous fallout" that Blackjack referred to in one of the other threads. It is the IPT's choice not to be part of the WPA. By flatly refusing to pay the WPA sanctioning fee, they are showing that thye do not want to be part of the "International" community. I think that this forces the players to have to choose sides, which is unfair. These players just want to play (and make money). I don't view this as a strong arm tactic to harm players, it looks as if it is a show of unity in opposition to this tour. The players are caught in the middle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Why doesn't this guy just pay the amount of the sanctioning? Supposedly he is a bejillionaire, why would it matter? Is it because he wants to be the top guy and not have to answer to anybody? I understand the fact that he has all this money and he can do whatever he wants to do, but that type of attitude wreaks of isolationism. Wouldn't it be to his advantage to work with the WPA and be a leader in the community as opposed to thumbing his nose at them? From a business standpoint this makes absolutely no sense to me. I would think that if he wanted to help the game of pool globally, that he would try to become a member of the community and try to improve it with his money, his connections, and his influence. If I am missing something here somebody please respectfully explain this to me with facts, not wishful thinking or woo-woo stuff that supports one side or the other. I'm just curious.

I think it is because the WPA likes to use scare tactics with promoters. Kevin already has 2000 applications of people who WANT to be part of what he is doing. Those applications include the top players in the world for the most part. Kevin also understands that since the WPA is essentially powerless to provide a platform for players to earn a very good living and become famous then he is competing against no one. The question is WHAT possible benefit is there to WPA sanctioning when the players will walk anyway?

John

 

[onepocketchump]

In golf, you cant buy the whole tour by flashing a wad of cash and making promises! Especially when you have a history of of making false promises/claims. He hasnt been BANNED from TV for nothing you know!
All I,m saying is, that based on the history of KT, we should doubt his intentions until he has proved otherwise.

Gabber

Well, duh. That's what I and others have been saying for weeks now.

As far as the FTC Ban, neither you or I know the full scope of that deal. For the record though, the American public is plied with outlandish claims everyday via infomercials and otherwise. The American public is defrauded by both commercial and non-commercial enterprises every moment of every day and the government does nothing. We don't know if the FTC lawsuit was instigated by an outside or not. For someonw with som much capacity for speculation, conspiracy theories, persecution and domination fantasies, it is diheartening to see you giving the government and big medicine a FREE PASS.

John

 

[Gabber]

Lol

"For someonw with som much capacity for speculation, conspiracy theories, persecution ".

LMAO.

" speculation"
KT makes claims for products that he cant back up with facts. Thats why he is off the airwaves.

"conspiracy theories"
KT claims the Govt, the drug companies, the food industry, the medical profession, etc are all in a conspiracy to make and keep people sick- then only to deny them a cure!

" persecution"
KT should never have gone to jail. It was all the result of an over zealous prosecutor. The reason he has been kicked off TV is because EVERYBODY is against him. LOL


Give me a break!

G...........

 

[Colin Colenso]

My name is Timberly (I didn't realize how much "T" looks like "K" )

I still haven't seen your name... your surname, not the one your choosing to hide behind.

Timberly,
From what I can decifer from Dr. Dissent's words, remember he only posted the APBU notice, he didn't write it, is that he seems to have a balanced and realistic insight into what is going on. I suspect he is involved in the system and it could be risky for him to say what he is saying under his own name.

I think he has made some intelligent contributions, and I hope he continues.

Colin