Archer wins "from the lag"

rayjay

rayjay

some of the kids
Silver Member
Somebody at the ph told me today that Johnny Archer ran 100 & out "from the lag" and his opponent never had a shot, but he didn't know what Johnny's first breakshot was that he did this with. First, true or not? Second, what was the break shot? If true, I'm guessing a corner ball banked to the short rail and up to the same side kitchen pocket. Thanks all...
:p
 
Johnny would never disrespect an opponent by playing such a silly opening shot. Johnny is a class act all the way.

Both of Johnny's 100-and-outs were done the legitimate way, after the opening safety.
 
i can't imagine anyone in a world championship 14.1 event pulling such a stunt. it's a very low percentage shot that only a fool would try when there's so much at stake. furthermore there's no guarantee of a another shot even if you do make it.
 
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Not true, Johnny Archer ran over 170 balls to finish the match with Danny Smith. At one point Johnny was stuck and needed bridge to make a shot. Danny being the gentlemen lent his personal bridge, this helped Johnny continue his run.

Sharing a conversation from the audience at the Sigel-Cohen match. Pointing at Cohen, Is that Ginky? No, that's Stephan Cohen, defending champion from last year. Oh, well he could pass for Ginky's brother, and he plays like Ginky. Someone else asked, where is Ginky?
 
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Vahmurka said:
just another example of an attacking opening break:
http://yfrog.com/j3hebreakz (from this thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=181980). That was the first time I ever saw such a way to break at all, leave alone at a major tournament like European champs!
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This is a sick shot. If you practice it, why not put it into play at a World's tournament? Anyone at any time in these tournaments should be able to run 100 and out (yes, I know it's difficult, but they wouldn't be in the world's if they couldn't). If you make this shot and get out without giving your opponent a shot, in my mind, it is a proper win. To say it's disrespectful seems a joke to me, it takes some skill and a lot of balls to try this shot and I would respect a player for trying it and completing the run-out.

Ben
 
Benward452 said:
This is a sick shot. If you practice it, why not put it into play at a World's tournament? ...
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Because the conditions/rack may be different there and it might not work. But if you could perfect this break when just the front three balls are tight, you should play the shot every time. Of course you should arrange to bring the cue ball back down the table farther than in the video.

A result of the perfection of this as the standard break would probably be a new requirement of a safe shot on the opening break. Otherwise, you would have good players taking 3 fouls a lot.
 
Benward452 said:
This is a sick shot. If you practice it, why not put it into play at a World's tournament? Anyone at any time in these tournaments should be able to run 100 and out (yes, I know it's difficult, but they wouldn't be in the world's if they couldn't). If you make this shot and get out without giving your opponent a shot, in my mind, it is a proper win. To say it's disrespectful seems a joke to me, it takes some skill and a lot of balls to try this shot and I would respect a player for trying it and completing the run-out.

Ben
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You have to keep in mind the quality of the competition. If you miss this very low percentage shot, you could very easily never get to shoot again. Most professionals would not try this shot except against a very unskilled opponent and probably not even then.
If you dare to shoot it against this kind of competition the odds are that it will be missed, I think, by most players.
I've heard this asked for years off and on the the answer most good players give is as above. Ask a good player if they would play this kind of shot against stiff competition. Most would not.
 
one of team Russia players told me he witnessed He practicing this very break on this very table several times. So he was tuned and pretty sure of the outcome. I doubt he would have tried it on other table "from scratch".
 
I never said it wasn't a foolhardy shot, I just feel that if you are confident that you can make the shot, why not go for it.

I agree that if the competition is stiff, there's no way someone is shooting it. Although if this became someones patented opening break and could it hit a bit above 55% on it, it might be worth the risk?

Some players can still run-out after the opening break...

I was just saying that I think calling this type of shot disrespectful, stupid. You still have to run 99 more balls to win the match.
 
Benward452 said:
I never said it wasn't a foolhardy shot, I just feel that if you are confident that you can make the shot, why not go for it.

I agree that if the competition is stiff, there's no way someone is shooting it. Although if this became someones patented opening break and could it hit a bit above 55% on it, it might be worth the risk?

Some players can still run-out after the opening break...

I was just saying that I think calling this type of shot disrespectful, stupid. You still have to run 99 more balls to win the match.
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It's disrespectful because it's saying that you don't think your opponent can run out, even with a wide-open table.

I fail to understand how you don't think it's disrespectful when you're saying "well of course you would never shoot it against a GOOD opponent, but why not shoot it against a BAD opponent?" The very nature of that question implies an insane amount of disrespect.

It's not about respect for an opponent's skill level. It's about respect for him as an opponent, period. People paid $550 to enter this tournament. For some people, it's purely a donation. The least the top players can do (and thankfully, they do) is treat everyone with respect.

- Steve
 
Ever see a world class player win the lag but opt to break in a major 14.1 event? Me neither. That's how you know for sure that there is not a single world class player that thinks that having the first shot of the game in 14.1 is an advantage, which is just another way of saying that no shot available on the opening break is worth shooting.
 
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Respect

sjm said:
Ever see a world class player lose the lag but opt to break in a major 14.1 event? Me neither. That's how you know for sure that there is not a single world class player that thinks that having the first shot of the game in 14.1 is an advantage, which is just another way of saying that no shot available on the opening break is worth shooting.
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You can imagine how I felt when in the Red Shoes Qualifier, Jeff Carter won the lag and chose to break.

Then later when I thought he was gonna play safe he played some wild ass combo shot from the kitchen into the stack and calling it in the side pocket.

I think he wanted to show me what he thought of me. I had heard that a few months earlier he had read something I wrote about one of the Red Shoes Tournaments and asked some others who the hell I was to be writing about them? The owner and a few others jumped on his ass and told him I was just trying to help the sport and the Pool Hall and what in the hell had he ever done for the game. He shut up then, but I guess he made his statement when he played me.

So, yeah, I think it is disrespectful and that most of the pros know to treat other players a little better than that.


I almost felt sorry for him when he was ahead 55-45 and said he had to quit because he wasn't feeling well. Almost. My patterns had probably made him dizzy.
 
Agree

Steve Lipsky said:
It's disrespectful because it's saying that you don't think your opponent can run out, even with a wide-open table.

I fail to understand how you don't think it's disrespectful when you're saying "well of course you would never shoot it against a GOOD opponent, but why not shoot it against a BAD opponent?" The very nature of that question implies an insane amount of disrespect.

It's not about respect for an opponent's skill level. It's about respect for him as an opponent, period. People paid $550 to enter this tournament. For some people, it's purely a donation. The least the top players can do (and thankfully, they do) is treat everyone with respect.

- Steve
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Steve, well stated. You are 100% correct.
That type of shot should be played when a player is practicing by them self and they are on a run with a solid rack for a break shot. Example: (Both the cue ball & break ball ends up in the rack. Break ball gets racked, cue ball up in the kitchen).
The other night, I had a good run going and ended up behind the rack after making the break ball and missing the rack with the cue ball. I banked the end ball in the back of the rack across side and made it. Well, I saved my run for a little longer, but it was just myself involved.
I would never take that shot during a match. It's not right.
 
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