Archers Not So Comeback and Commentary

[BasementDweller]

Can't stop as I find this philosophically interesting...

As a landlord, if a tenant quit paying their rent when you knew they had the money, would you get upset? Of course you would. Now after they were evicted, if they came back to you with five thousand dollars of the missing ten thousand total, how would you view them? Especially, if that former tenant had recently lost their marriage and their job?

As a landlord, I would be SHOCKED beyond belief that they payed me anything! People wrongfully walk away from debts all the time in our society and few people bat an eye. So I would likely hold out hope for their redemption.

I guess this is why I find myself in purgatory on this matter. I recognize Johnny did Oscar wrong but I'm hopeful he can still do the right thing and I'm not so sure it should be the scarlet letter that so many others do.

 

[maha]

i would give them some respect. but if i felt they wronged me in the first place i wouldnt give them too much respect.
and of course they still owe me the rest even if i thought i would not have gotten anything. i consider a debt not paid in full that is owed in full being cheated.
most anyone can at the very least make some payment plan to keep the debt alive and show some trying to make good.
if not a p.o.s. person in my book. maybe not yours. each to his own standards.

keep your word or have a good articulated reason to deviate from if you must.

this post isnt about johnny's debt or dealings. he has to live by what he does or did and i dont follow it or care. and how he lives his life is all his own doings, the same with the rest of us.

many forget what you do follows you the rest of your life, and can have really good or bad results going forward.

 

[Shannon.spronk]

Can't stop as I find this philosophically interesting...

As a landlord, if a tenant quit paying their rent when you knew they had the money, would you get upset? Of course you would. Now after they were evicted, if they came back to you with five thousand dollars of the missing ten thousand total, how would you view them? Especially, if that former tenant had recently lost their marriage and their job?

As a landlord, I would be SHOCKED beyond belief that they payed me anything! People wrongfully walk away from debts all the time in our society and few people bat an eye. So I would likely hold out hope for their redemption.

I guess this is why I find myself in purgatory on this matter. I recognize Johnny did Oscar wrong but I'm hopeful he can still do the right thing and I'm not so sure it should be the scarlet letter that so many others do.

Now what if they had someone else to pay their rent and they had collected the money to pay you, but instead of paying you they decided to pocket that money?

 

[maha]

in any deal, the person that owes the money is responsible for the money to get to where it needs to go.
unless the party agrees for a change in the deal.

 

[BasementDweller]

Now what if they had someone else to pay their rent and they had collected the money to pay you, but instead of paying you they decided to pocket that money?

There's an endless number of reasons someone doesn't hold up their end of the deal. That's probably fairly common when it comes to paying rent. Maybe it's all a form of theft. The point is -- there's been at least some effort to right the wrong. I know that's not everything but it's something.

 

[FeelDaShot]

There's an endless number of reasons someone doesn't hold up their end of the deal. That's probably fairly common when it comes to paying rent. Maybe it's all a form of theft. The point is -- there's been at least some effort to right the wrong. I know that's not everything but it's something.

Your argument is ridiculous. You can't compare Johnny Archer (a celebrity) to some random guy in the pool hall who you'll never see again or some broke tenant of yours. These aren't comparable at all.

This was a publicly advertised match up with trustworthy backers. After Johnny lost, his backers paid him the money and Johnny skipped town with it. So of course the first thing to do is ruin his reputation all over the internet. What else can you do besides physical violence? I bet you would do the same if Johnny Archer or some other celebrity was renting an apartment from you and didn't pay.

And honestly, most regular people (non-celebrities) who act like scumbags are treated the same way. If someone steals your cue, you're going to tell everyone you know so they can be careful. Well it just so happens that A LOT of people know Johnny Archer so there are a lot of people to tell.

 

[krelldog]

JA took someone else's money for his own benefit. To add insult to injury... made no real effort to pay it back. That's stealing...

He seems to reject the notion that he needs to get a job and be responsible for the mess that he's created for himself.

JA- The ride is over..Time to implement Plan B. Working for a living isn't all that bad. Be a better example for your kids.

You became one of the greatest pool players in the world through hard work and dedication. Its time to redirect your energies into a second career. Its not going to be nearly as lucrative, but it could be as rewarding if you give it a chance.

 

[jay helfert]

Literally or figuratively?

Literally. He swung at his head but Arnie deflected the punch and he caught it on the shoulder. Danny D. was there and saw the whole thing, and told me the story. I think the Burbank tourney was in 1966 because I didn't arrive in L.A. until 1967 after I finished Basic Training at good old Ft. Polk.

 

[jay helfert]

I would have mentioned Warren Kiamco too.

Jimmy Moore traveled over to Hard Times to play in a couple of our big Jamborees in the early 1990's. He was over 80 then but could still run 100 balls in Straights. One year (1991?) in a strong 64 man field he finished tied 5-6th. He could damn sure still play!

 

[dendweller]

You became one of the greatest pool players in the world through hard work and dedication

that's speculation

 

[Straightpool_99]

I've learned from previous threads on Az not to pile on to these character assasinations. Usually there is another side to the story and the person(s) starting or maintaining the threads are often found to have some sort of agenda.

Maybe I have a soft spot for older, struggling pros. I'm thinking it cannot be easy to have little to nothing put away and slowly losing the only skills you've had. Even athletes in sports where big money is being made, often lose it all due to poor financial understanding and being plain cheated. In pool, where for the last 30 or so years the only big money has been made in the top 2 or 3, things are exponentially more difficult. It's probably going to take a toll on even the strongest psyche.

"Just get a job" is not going to be an easy path for someone who's probably never worked a proper job in his life and with little to no training or schooling. This late in life, it's going to be an uphill battle, even to keep a roof over his head.

 

[rexus31]

Literally. He swung at his head but Arnie deflected the punch and he caught it on the shoulder. Danny D. was there and saw the whole thing, and told me the story. I think the Burbank tourney was in 1966 because I didn't arrive in L.A. until 1967 after I finished Basic Training at good old Ft. Polk.

Wow, that's wild!

 

[rexus31]

What she don’t know
Won’t hurt her

I'm sure your wife is proud.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

I'm sure your wife is proud.

I’m sure your the life of the party

 

[rexus31]

I’m sure your* the life of the party

*you're

Every time!

 

[Texas Carom Club]

*you're

Every time!

Your mistaken that I give af about meaningless grammar as well

 

[ChrisinNC]

I've learned from previous threads on Az not to pile on to these character assasinations. Usually there is another side to the story and the person(s) starting or maintaining the threads are often found to have some sort of agenda.

Maybe I have a soft spot for older, struggling pros. I'm thinking it cannot be easy to have little to nothing put away and slowly losing the only skills you've had. Even athletes in sports where big money is being made, often lose it all due to poor financial understanding and being plain cheated. In pool, where for the last 30 or so years the only big money has been made in the top 2 or 3, things are exponentially more difficult. It's probably going to take a toll on even the strongest psyche.

"Just get a job" is not going to be an easy path for someone who's probably never worked a proper job in his life and with little to no training or schooling. This late in life, it's going to be an uphill battle, even to keep a roof over his head.

Sorry to correct, but there has never been big $ in pro pool, not even for the best. As far as a profession, most plumbers and electricians are far better off financially than virtually all pro pool players.

 

[Dunnn51]

i would give them some respect. but if i felt they wronged me in the first place i wouldnt give them too much respect.
and of course they still owe me the rest even if i thought i would not have gotten anything. i consider a debt not paid in full that is owed in full being cheated.
most anyone can at the very least make some payment plan to keep the debt alive and show some trying to make good.
if not a p.o.s. person in my book. maybe not yours. each to his own standards.

keep your word or have a good articulated reason to deviate from if you must.

this post isnt about johnny's debt or dealings. he has to live by what he does or did and i dont follow it or care. and how he lives his life is all his own doings, the same with the rest of us.

many forget what you do follows you the rest of your life, and can have really good or bad results going forward.

It is all a question of character. When a MAN loses that; what does he have left??? Your whole life someone/something is trying to strip you of your character. Your wife/GF wants YOU to place her as #1 even above yourself. Your employer? Sure. Take the promotion, BUT you gotta do this...

So, if you bet/wager and play under the heat, you understand it is all or nothing. Win or lose. There is no "well, i am not paying that loss b/c it was bull***t."
Very few things make me angry, but this is one of them. I don't gamble anymore. Does not matter if it is $10 or $10,000 , you win you collect; you lose you pay. It is just not worth it Honor your debts.
I know nothing about Oscar/Johnny situation, but if the debt is forgiven that should be the end of it.
I have forgiven gambling debts ,BUT I haven't forgotten them.

 

[fjk]

I've learned from previous threads on Az not to pile on to these character assasinations. Usually there is another side to the story and the person(s) starting or maintaining the threads are often found to have some sort of agenda.

Maybe I have a soft spot for older, struggling pros. I'm thinking it cannot be easy to have little to nothing put away and slowly losing the only skills you've had. Even athletes in sports where big money is being made, often lose it all due to poor financial understanding and being plain cheated. In pool, where for the last 30 or so years the only big money has been made in the top 2 or 3, things are exponentially more difficult. It's probably going to take a toll on even the strongest psyche.

"Just get a job" is not going to be an easy path for someone who's probably never worked a proper job in his life and with little to no training or schooling. This late in life, it's going to be an uphill battle, even to keep a roof over his head.

Agree it's not going to be easy. But a lot of people, maybe even most, don't have it easy. My company is hiring people off the street with no real job skills for $20-25 an hour with as much overtime as they would like to work. Anyone that is willing to show up every day to put in an honest day's work, along with some OT, can make 60-70K a year with benefits. That certainly doesn't make anyone rich these days, but you can support yourself and hold your head up high. I respect hardworking people, regardless of what they do or how much they make. Those that don't want to work and instead just feel sorry for themselves, not so much.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Agree it's not going to be easy. But a lot of people, maybe even most, don't have it easy. My company is hiring people off the street with no real job skills for $20-25 an hour with as much overtime as they would like to work. Anyone that is willing to show up every day to put in an honest day's work, along with some OT, can make 60-70K a year with benefits. That certainly doesn't make anyone rich these days, but you can support yourself and hold your head up high. I respect hardworking people, regardless of what they do or how much they make. Those that don't want to work and instead just feel sorry for themselves, not so much.

I don't know what kind of job it is that you offer. Maybe none of what I'm about to write applies to it? However, physical jobs with no health insurance and 55 year old pudgy guys who led a sedentary lifestyle, don't necessarily mix. How long before his back, or joints give out from putting up drywall for 12 hours a day or his heart gives out from schlepping concrete bags in 100 degree weather?

Lots of people do these kinds of jobs, and many are probably worse off than Archer. Maybe they're older and more frail. I feel bad for them and Archer too, if that is his future. No savings at 55 and relatively low paying job (in terms of saving for retirement) means he's going to work until he drops. He probably wouldn't have health insurance, so he can't get any help when his body inevitably gives out or if pays out of pocket, his life savings will be drained instantly. Bleak AF. Hopefully he could work a sales job instead to at least give him a chance of a long life.