are custom cues really worth the $ ?

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
after reading a thread about having problems with yet another cue maker that has been added to the list i have seen posted on here i have to wonder if custom cues are worth the aggravation and money.

i have never dealt with a custom cue maker and therefore am not going to bash any of them but after reading so many horror stories on here about peoples dealings with them i have to wonder if they are worth it.
i also will not question their craftmanship or attention to detail.

my question is are they really worth the 5-10 year wait ? is getting the weight, pin , joint, rings or the design you want worth the unanswered calls or e mails you make ? or the outright lies they give you on a completion date ? when you finally get your hands on it does it actually make you play better than a production cue would ?

my next question concerns going through a dealer, now let me say i have nothing against anyone making money anyway they can legally.

if you do not want to wait or go through the hassle with a cuemaker a dealer is the way to go. but that defeats the argument of you getting a custom to your specs dont it ? thats the reason you want a custom in the 1st place right ?

if you see a cue that a dealer or flipper has , is it worth paying up to double what the cuemaker charges just so you do not have to go through the waiting list ?

curious as to what your thoughts are.
 
Worth 10 years wait? No, I don't think so.

Are they worth having/buying/playing in general? Yes.

As for going through a dealer, I would prefer not to myself. If a dealer would happen to have a particular cue I wanted I suppose that would be the only way. But as for getting a new cue from a current maker, made to order, I would prefer to deal directly.

These are difficult times. I myself am in serious financial straights. Cue makers run into problems too.

I would say that this forum serves as a magnifying glass for such things. They are, in general, greatly magnified. When you consider the number of cues made for people and or repairs and or modifications done, I really doubt that the problems are encountered in any exaggerated proportion.
 
lorider said:
after reading a thread about having problems with yet another cue maker that has been added to the list i have seen posted on here i have to wonder if custom cues are worth the aggravation and money.

i have never dealt with a custom cue maker and therefore am not going to bash any of them but after reading so many horror stories on here about peoples dealings with them i have to wonder if they are worth it.
i also will not question their craftmanship or attention to detail.

my question is are they really worth the 5-10 year wait ? is getting the weight, pin , joint, rings or the design you want worth the unanswered calls or e mails you make ? or the outright lies they give you on a completion date ? when you finally get your hands on it does it actually make you play better than a production cue would ?

my next question concerns going through a dealer, now let me say i have nothing against anyone making money anyway they can legally.

if you do not want to wait or go through the hassle with a cuemaker a dealer is the way to go. but that defeats the argument of you getting a custom to your specs dont it ? thats the reason you want a custom in the 1st place right ?

if you see a cue that a dealer or flipper has , is it worth paying up to double what the cuemaker charges just so you do not have to go through the waiting list ?

curious as to what your thoughts are.
Click to expand...

First: No dealer gets double on a new cue (unless you have pics of the cuemaker and some farm animals..) :p

Second: The one useful thing a dealer has is inventory. If its not new unchalked, you can generally try them out. Which is a big bonus. SBE and all the cue shows are great for this.

Third: Cuemakers inhale a lot of fumes. The fumes also disrupt the time space continuum. :p

4th: If you find the cue of your life, your soulmate of cues, so to speak, you'll never need another. So will you play better, maybe...

JV
 
There are a few cuemakers that, based on their history and the collector values of their past work probably warrant the high prices and long waits, and so from a collector point of view are probably good investments for hopefully a better cue market someday than we have currently.
As far as playability, I doubt if many, if any, of them play any better than alot of cues being made as we speak. There are alot of great cuemakers today, probably more than there ever has been at any single period of time in the past.
I personally would much rather support a small guy building a handful of cues a year and supplementing his income with local repair work that supports his geographic pool community than waiting for years to pay 5-10 times as much for a cue that I may never even play with.
There are some great cues from the past that warrant extreme prices, but no way can we be assured a new cue by that same maker will ever be,,,,,and they were probably the small guy making a handful of cues a year, supporting their local geographic pool community with cue repair work when they made those particular cues.
So basically, support the local, or smaller cuemakers, they'll build you a great cue that plays the way you want it to, for a fair price, and stand by their work. Who knows, maybe they'll be the next Balabushka one day.
 
lorider said:
after reading a thread about having problems with yet another cue maker that has been added to the list i have seen posted on here i have to wonder if custom cues are worth the aggravation and money.

i have never dealt with a custom cue maker and therefore am not going to bash any of them but after reading so many horror stories on here about peoples dealings with them i have to wonder if they are worth it.
i also will not question their craftmanship or attention to detail.

my question is are they really worth the 5-10 year wait ? is getting the weight, pin , joint, rings or the design you want worth the unanswered calls or e mails you make ? or the outright lies they give you on a completion date ? when you finally get your hands on it does it actually make you play better than a production cue would ?

my next question concerns going through a dealer, now let me say i have nothing against anyone making money anyway they can legally.

if you do not want to wait or go through the hassle with a cuemaker a dealer is the way to go. but that defeats the argument of you getting a custom to your specs dont it ? thats the reason you want a custom in the 1st place right ?

if you see a cue that a dealer or flipper has , is it worth paying up to double what the cuemaker charges just so you do not have to go through the waiting list ?

curious as to what your thoughts are.
Click to expand...



Not all dealers selling Custom Cues are charging double the price the Cue Maker would charge. For instance, I own a Pool hall, and sell Custom Cues, however, I sell them on commission from the Cue Maker. For every cue I sell the cue maker gives me a percentage based upon the price of the cue. The cues are shipped to me at no cost and the Cue Maker sets the price for each individual cue, so there is no difference if the cue is purchased directly from him or from me. Currently I am the only dealer for Billy Webb Custom Cues and we have been doing by business in this manner for around 5 years. Currently I have 13 of his cues for sale at my business that cost between $750 and $2200.

As far as the other issues you mentioned in your thread, in my opinion taking deposits or payment in full up front is risky business when it comes to building Cues. Far to many things can go wrong during the process of construction or in someones life in general, and Murphy's Law always applies.

Craig
 
Chopdoc said:
Worth 10 years wait? No, I don't think so.

Are they worth having/buying/playing in general? Yes.

As for going through a dealer, I would prefer not to myself. If a dealer would happen to have a particular cue I wanted I suppose that would be the only way. But as for getting a new cue from a current maker, made to order, I would prefer to deal directly.

These are difficult times. I myself am in serious financial straights. Cue makers run into problems too.

I would say that this forum serves as a magnifying glass for such things. They are, in general, greatly magnified. When you consider the number of cues made for people and or repairs and or modifications done, I really doubt that the problems are encountered in any exaggerated proportion.
Click to expand...

as i stated, i agree their quality is above a production cue.

i would rather deal directly with a cuemaker myself.

i also have fallen upon hard times. i used to own my own bussiness until the housing market went bust, now i work for someone else making quite a bit less. i have to make every penny count now a days.

i dont know how widespread the problem is but it seems you have to be really careful. it seems people are reluctant to post their problems with cuemakers. you hear nothing but praise for a certain cuemaker then someone comes on here posting about their problem. you usually wind up with a bunch of people defending the cuemaker and bashing the op only to have more posters coming on here stating they have had similar problems with the same cuemaker. then you have cuemaker come on here telling the customer basicaly to go f^ck himself.

seems to me some of them make great cues but cannot run a bussiness. some people downplay certain cuemakers customer service because they like his work or whatever. if you make cues and sell them you run a bussiness, no matter if you do it part time or not. customer service is an important part of that bussiness.

to all those supporting this type of behavior i ask this question. if you had a carpenter remodeling your house and kept putting off when he would finish leaving your house in a mess and your life in limbo. when you kept asking for a completion date he outright keeps lying to you and basicaly tells you to go f^ck yourself you gonna tolerate it ?
 
classiccues said:
First: No dealer gets double on a new cue (unless you have pics of the cuemaker and some farm animals..) :p

Second: The one useful thing a dealer has is inventory. If its not new unchalked, you can generally try them out. Which is a big bonus. SBE and all the cue shows are great for this.

Third: Cuemakers inhale a lot of fumes. The fumes also disrupt the time space continuum. :p

4th: If you find the cue of your life, your soulmate of cues, so to speak, you'll never need another. So will you play better, maybe...

JV
Click to expand...

first; eric crisp stated in the thread bashing him that 90% of his cues are selling for double what he charges.

second ; i agree wholeheartedly

third ; i can see this

4th; pool is mostly mental so you are probably right.
 
there
Renegade_56 said:
There are a few cuemakers that, based on their history and the collector values of their past work probably warrant the high prices and long waits, and so from a collector point of view are probably good investments for hopefully a better cue market someday than we have currently.
As far as playability, I doubt if many, if any, of them play any better than alot of cues being made as we speak. There are alot of great cuemakers today, probably more than there ever has been at any single period of time in the past.
I personally would much rather support a small guy building a handful of cues a year and supplementing his income with local repair work that supports his geographic pool community than waiting for years to pay 5-10 times as much for a cue that I may never even play with.
There are some great cues from the past that warrant extreme prices, but no way can we be assured a new cue by that same maker will ever be,,,,,and they were probably the small guy making a handful of cues a year, supporting their local geographic pool community with cue repair work when they made those particular cues.
So basically, support the local, or smaller cuemakers, they'll build you a great cue that plays the way you want it to, for a fair price, and stand by their work. Who knows, maybe they'll be the next Balabushka one day.
Click to expand...

there are a couple of local guys here i want to deal with as finances allow. overall i agree with most of your post.
 
manwon said:
Not all dealers selling Custom Cues are charging double the price the Cue Maker would charge. For instance, I own a Pool hall, and sell Custom Cues, however, I sell them on commission from the Cue Maker. For every cue I sell the cue maker gives me a percentage based upon the price of the cue. The cues are shipped to me at no cost and the Cue Maker sets the price for each individual cue, so there is no difference if the cue is purchased directly from him or from me. Currently I am the only dealer for Billy Webb Custom Cues and we have been doing by business in this manner for around 5 years. Currently I have 13 of his cues for sale at my business that cost between $750 and $2200.

As far as the other issues you mentioned in your thread, in my opinion taking deposits or payment in full up front is risky business when it comes to building Cues. Far to many things can go wrong during the process of construction or in someones life in general, and Murphy's Law always applies.

Craig
Click to expand...

glad you are helping out what i hope to be an up and coming cuemaker. i have heard some good things about billy webb.

i realize unforseen problems arise from time to time. been there and done that a few times. it just seems like its happening more frequently that you hear of someone waiting for too long on whats promised. then you wind up not getting the product and have to get your money back in installments if you are lucky to get it at all.
 
lorider said:
to all those supporting this type of behavior i ask this question. if you had a carpenter remodeling your house and kept putting off when he would finish leaving your house in a mess and your life in limbo. when you kept asking for a completion date he outright keeps lying to you and basicaly tells you to go f^ck yourself you gonna tolerate it ?
Click to expand...

I don't support the behavior, but I understand it. It's not unique.

I wouldn't compare it to other trades. A roof on your house is one thing....a pool cue? A custom made pool cue is most often a work of art. You're dealing with artists. This isn't a matter of the roof over your head leaking.

Yes, they can be the tools of a professional player as well, but in most cases they are in fact not that.

As you say, some of them are not good businessmen. Of course. In fact that has nothing to do with how well they build a cue really.

To me they are artists. That they conduct business would seem secondary to that. Yes, customer service is very important....but even then....secondary to the art.
 
Here's the thing that one needs to ask themselves when considering commissioning a custom cue.....are you trying to keep up with the 'Joneses' and looking for an investment, or are you just wanting something uniquely your own to play with?

Is the 'cue maker du juor' investment of today, still going to be the 'cue maker du juor' investment tomorrow? Are you willing to wait 5-10 years on the hope that you were important enough to the maker that your 'spot' wasn't skipped in favor of another? Are you willing to shell out the sheckles?

If you are just looking for a nice player uniquely your own, there are plenty of makers who will not break the bank, whose waiting list is typically less than a year, who will deliver exactly what you want...providing you were very detailed with your specs....in a reasonable time-frame.

For me...this is about as 'loaded' as I want a cue to be:

josey1-2.jpg


I am not nervous about taking it out to play with...and it doesn't scream 'custom cue' to most of the locals. The cue plays every bit as good as I had hoped it would...maybe even better. Beginning to end, the build took <9 months. All top grade materials. Total investment was <$1500. No hiccups, no issues, no excuses...a completely stressless and enjoyable experience. Would do it again in a heartbeat!! Will it retain it's value?...I don't know, and frankly, don't care...it's worth every penny to me, and that's all that matters.

Lisa
 
lorider said:
first; eric crisp stated in the thread bashing him that 90% of his cues are selling for double what he charges.

second ; i agree wholeheartedly

third ; i can see this

4th; pool is mostly mental so you are probably right.
Click to expand...

but they aren't going through "dealers" and the one dealer that gets them direct says he doesn't charge double.

JV
 
.



Buying from a cue maker is buying something on expectations and perception. Hopefully it turnouts to be something that you like. Buying from a dealer gives you the chance to see it, feel it and hit with it before buying. Many times the dealer can give you a better deal by going thru them than ordering directly with the cue maker because of the deal they have with them.

Many cue makers will also have booths at the various events with a selection of cues that you can try. If you find one you like you can buy it or have one made to the design you want.

No one can tell you what cue is the best for you. It can be a long tedious but enjoyable journey that may eventually lead you to the cue you are looking for. Some people don't think a cue matters and others do. If you don't feel a cue makes a difference then buy the cheapest one you find and play with it because a expensive one won't make you play any better.


.
 
lorider said:
as i stated, i agree their quality is above a production cue.

i would rather deal directly with a cuemaker myself.

i also have fallen upon hard times. i used to own my own bussiness until the housing market went bust, now i work for someone else making quite a bit less. i have to make every penny count now a days.

i dont know how widespread the problem is but it seems you have to be really careful. it seems people are reluctant to post their problems with cuemakers. you hear nothing but praise for a certain cuemaker then someone comes on here posting about their problem. you usually wind up with a bunch of people defending the cuemaker and bashing the op only to have more posters coming on here stating they have had similar problems with the same cuemaker. then you have cuemaker come on here telling the customer basicaly to go f^ck himself.

seems to me some of them make great cues but cannot run a bussiness. some people downplay certain cuemakers customer service because they like his work or whatever. if you make cues and sell them you run a bussiness, no matter if you do it part time or not. customer service is an important part of that bussiness.

to all those supporting this type of behavior i ask this question. if you had a carpenter remodeling your house and kept putting off when he would finish leaving your house in a mess and your life in limbo. when you kept asking for a completion date he outright keeps lying to you and basicaly tells you to go f^ck yourself you gonna tolerate it ?
Click to expand...

I own a construction biz and I can tell you that I couldn't get away with this, however, a cue is a luxury item. Your life is not going to be complicated by NOT having that cue.

But that doesn't give anyone a free pass. If you give a date and you accept money its a verbal contract. If a customer wanted to push it in small claims court, the cuemaker would have to pay the money, and possibly the prevailing interest rate for the duration of the "loan". Problem is most guys are out of state and this isn't usually an option. Even though its a hobby, to both them and the customer, they should act responsibly. I could see if the cuemaker got the vibe that the customer was going to flip it, he might get bumped to the back of the list or delayed.

Here is the sick part.. after all the crap, with all the issues that happened, I guarantee NO ONE, and I mean no f*****g body, called the cuemaker and said, you know what, I don't want the cue, you're a dick. You know why???? Cause they are going to flip it and make money. Greed baby, that's the bottom line. That stands with every cuemaker you've read about that had an issue. I hear people all the time, this guy this, this guy that, at the end of the day, these people would still lick the crumbs off (insert any cuemakers name) plate. Now let me make it sicker.. I know a person that had an order, with a deposit for over 8 years, he finally after hearing every excuse in the book, and getting numerous d**k yanks, pull the order and say give me a refund. That cuemaker in turn spit out a dozen cues to rub his face in it. (IMHO) But if that person was to say something, he'd be the f*****g bad guy, how sad is THAT.

JV
 
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I bought a Diveney and would recommend them to anyone. Great guy and the cue plays amazing.

I suppose this is like anything, you get straight shooters and shady characters, ask around if you have any concerns about a cue maker. Do your research and that should help get rid of a lot of shady stuff. If you think billiard items are bad, you should try custom chopper/motorcycle parts. That's where the real shade comes in lol. I could write a book on that!
 
boogieman said:
If you think billiard items are bad, you should try custom chopper/motorcycle parts.
Click to expand...

First chopper (basket case) I ever bought turned out to be stolen.

Had an interesting conversation with the guy that sold it to me.
 
The reality is this....Eric has time-management issues, plain and simple. There are only but so many balls that only one man can juggle...and he's trying to juggle a lot. But he's not the only one. There's no denying the man can build a cue, and has a great passion for it...but he needs help. Some of us just have a harder time asking for it than others. I do not honestly feel his actions are intentional...he's just overwhelmed. And no, I do not have an order, nor do I anticipate an order for a Sugartree...I cannot afford them.

Most successful makers have/need an assistant. An assistant whose primary task is to handle the inquiries and orders, and any other small tasks that generally interrupt time in the shop proper, like placing materials orders and such. If it's an 'open' shop...they'll handle the foot-traffic as well. There are more than several makers whose shops are run in such a manner, usually with the assistant being a spouse or other family member or perhaps friend...and you know what?....you never see complaints concerning issues with these makers.
 
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first thing to realize

The first thing to realize is that unhappy people make at least twenty times the noise happy people do. For every unhappy post you see from a custom cue builder's customer there are many many happy customers. When I was in business I figured I could PO maybe two percent of my customers or less. I tried to make sure that two percent were people that I didn't want as customers anyway.

Every once in awhile I find something that is an extension of my arm. I have had pistols and shotguns like that, so much a part of my body it was freaky. I wanted something to happen, it happened. When you find a cue like that it is worth anything you pay for it. It may be a custom, it may be a production cue, doesn't really matter.

One thing that does matter, generally if you like the hit of a custom cue when you first get it, it is going to stay that way. Not true as much for production cues. Not that compromises can't be made in a custom shop but they have to be made on a production line, the nature of the beast. When any one of dozens made of one component has to fit with any one of dozens made of another component tolerances come into play. "Dozens" is the low end of course sometimes we are talking hundreds or thousands. A custom builder can fit oversized parts to perfection. That is the real value of a good custom builder aside from being able to specify exactly what you want within the limits of what the cue builder will build.

Hu
 
Chopdoc said:
I don't support the behavior, but I understand it. It's not unique.

I wouldn't compare it to other trades. A roof on your house is one thing....a pool cue? A custom made pool cue is most often a work of art. You're dealing with artists. This isn't a matter of the roof over your head leaking.

Yes, they can be the tools of a professional player as well, but in most cases they are in fact not that.

As you say, some of them are not good businessmen. Of course. In fact that has nothing to do with how well they build a cue really.

To me they are artists. That they conduct business would seem secondary to that. Yes, customer service is very important....but even then....secondary to the art.
Click to expand...

i think you are on to something doc. more than once i have heard of some cues refered as art. artists have a reputation of walking to a different beat. they think what applies to the common man does not apply to them.

as the saying goes , its hard to be humble when you are great. i am not talking about people such as ernie, richard black, scott gracio,etc, etc. you know who they are.
 
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