Are some Pros afraid to play some other Pros?

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
In every Pool room, you have silent rankings of players, the very best player(s), the ones just under them, and so on. When you frequent these rooms you begin to learn what the rankings are. And in most cases the very best players do not play each other, they usually 'play down' where the odds are in their favor.

My question is does this same thing exist among the Pros? Once you made it to Pro status and you have a reputation that you have to maintain. Are some Pros afraid, or just don't match up, with other Pros because they are afraid to lose, or they think that their reputation will be damaged?

There are quite a few Pros who haven't won 3 tournaments in the last 5 years, especially if you don't count Amateur tournaments. How can they be held up there to be so good, when they don't win anything for years?

I am adding a footnote, 'Up and comers' have to play 'up' to climb the ladder so to speak. Mike Dechaine, I would say, is an 'Up and comer', but has not attained true Pro status yet. But I am talking about the Pros that have attained Pro status, and maybe considered a Pro for some years now.

I would like to hear what some of you think about this!
 

LHP5

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hmmm.......interesting post. Well I always assumed pro pool players are like pro poker players. When a "pro" is playing poker at a table and there is another "pro" at the same table they tend to avoid big hands and keep the pot small between themselves. No point in sharks trying to take each other out when there are so many other fishes at the table. Same concept I assume would exist in pool. Two top pros playing each other is just a matter of who is in stroke that day. Why match up with each other when these other up-and-comers will give you a game where you're either slightly or pretty damn well ahead?
 

LHP5

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh yea the other thing I would assume would hinder a game between most top pros is that when you get to that level I doubt they're playing for bragging rights. They're playing for the cheese. Would you rather flip a normal coin or a weighted coin for 1k? It's all about the monies.......
 

CharlesUFarley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
By the way, Mike Dechaine is one of the best players on the planet. Nobody has to love drawing him in a tournament, and only a select few would have the best of it for the cash.
 

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
I don't know many who would think Dechaine hasn't attained true pro status. The guy just won Turning Stone and was on the last Mosconi cup team.

As has been said, there is no edge for two top guys matching up, at least if they are playing with their own cash. Tournaments are different because your entry fee is leveraged - there is both dead money and added money.
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
"Are some Pros afraid to play some other Pros?"

Yes.

Ego being the primary factor.
 

randallt6

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is why Asian players are so good, they're pro's are always playing with each other.
 

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
"Are some Pros afraid to play some other Pros?"

Yes.

Ego being the primary factor.

Yes, these guys do not like to lose but who does. I think a pool players ego is pretty big, much bigger than the paychecks they get that is for sure. I believe you have pros who gamble a bit, others who just want to steal, the fearless players who will play anyone and then those who just do not gamble. Pretty much the same categories as you see in a pool room. Funny thing happens when a guy tries to stroke you and offer you a very small handicap say 9-7 when this same person has beat some of the best players in the world, talk about nitty. :eek:
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
I don't know many who would think Dechaine hasn't attained true pro status. The guy just won Turning Stone and was on the last Mosconi cup team.

As has been said, there is no edge for two top guys matching up, at least if they are playing with their own cash. Tournaments are different because your entry fee is leveraged - there is both dead money and added money.

I disagree about the edge when two top guys match up. There is an advantage in such a game for both of them....they are playing a tough game. The experience in itself has value for someone trying to compete with the worlds best. The day the idea that top guys should only match up for big amounts when they are staked came about was the same time American pro players started their decline IMO.

There is an old saying I heard somewhere "Steel sharpens steel"

Everyone wonders why the Fillipinos are so good? Because they are constantly playing one another even at the very highest levels. When is the last time you saw two top Americans playing $200 sets? Its kind of hard to play on the bleeding edge of the worlds elite when 95% of the time you play people you know you can beat.

The Euro players are constantly playing each other in the Euro tour and other events all over the world. US players play tough fields what maybe six or seven times a year ? The only to play top guys in the US is to match up. But no one wants to play $500 sets.....everyone wants to bet tens of thousands....actually they want someone else to bet tens of thousands and take their share.

The sickest thing I see every year in vegas is two top players woof a game, decide its too much like gambling then promptly go dead broke on the dice table. I have told more than a few guys I know "You are better off giving the seven to some world beater than walking up to that dice table. You can out the run nuts on a pool table...you aint outrunning them in a casino" No one ever listens though so I just shut up and walk away.
 

OUSooner

Known Fish
Silver Member
While I'm not the biggest Dechaine fan around. Few can argue that he hasn't achieved pro status. He's currently in the elite playing big box 10 ball. Which is the stick that others are measured. He's definitely one of the top Americans playing the game right now. He won the Ultimate 10 ball last year in Texas. Played on the Mosconi team. Won Turningstone. What else do you want in a year? I don't think another American but SVB had a comparable year.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
 

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Justin. I don't disagree with your "steel sharpens steel" idea, but I was simply relating the way it is, and I think you confirmed it. Top pros just don't get in tough games with their own funds that often.
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Justin. I don't disagree with your "steel sharpens steel" idea, but I was simply relating the way it is, and I think you confirmed it. Top pros just don't get in tough games with their own funds that often.

You are 100% correct.

One of the funniest things in the world is seeing five out of the top ten pool players in the world sitting around a poker table because they would rather do that than play $100 sets because the action is too tough.

One reason that does make sense to me though is that pool at that level is so damn mentally tough on a guy I can see how it would not be worth it. Better to just sit down, relax and hope the luck rolls your way.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I consider Mike Dechaine a here and now pro player and not up and coming.

Yes, some American pro players are afraid to play each other for various reason as some have already mentioned. It's not the smartest thing for their overall benefit but until they take a lead from the Filipinos, nothig is going to change.

There's no doubt that American players would increase their level of play by playing FREQUENTLY WITH OTHER TOP PLAYERS and by playing for stakes they can afford to take out of their back pocket.
 
Yes, some pros are afraid to play other pros just like some regular players are afraid to play other regulars. Corey Deuel will tell what Shawn Putnam does wrong in practice and all Shawn can do is listen, so if they have to gamble, Shawn would probably ask for a spot or he'll most likely lose.

But there's one exception though. Which is that if the player is a Korean and that Korean has too much confidence and doesn't know his true limit then he must take his lifetime lessons to realize how suck he is.

The classic sample is this Korean guy names Gin, in New York. He had to take not one, but two humiliation beatings from me before he finally realized how suck he really was.... Or how good I really was...^__^ ^__^

Or both!
 

Buckzapper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool
I don't know many who would think Dechaine hasn't attained true pro status. The guy just won Turning Stone and was on the last Mosconi cup team.

As has been said, there is no edge for two top guys matching up, at least if they are playing with their own cash. Tournaments are different because your entry fee is leveraged - there is both dead money and added money.




Dechaine won Turningstone and I think 4 of his matches went 9-8. Sure he won, but would the tournament have ended differently if Alex, Appleton, Earl, Thorsten and Ralph were in it? I think so.....definitely. Mike is a nice fellow, I'm happy for him for his wins and his dad is one of the nicest people I ever met, but rope is rope until steel cable is around.
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Scott...I think you don't "get out" much! :rolleyes: LOL Dechaine is definitely top 10 in the US or better (now that he just won Turning Stone). I would agree that he is not top 10 in the world...but who is? Oh yeah, Shane is.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Mike Dechaine, I would say, is an 'Up and comer', but has not attained true Pro status yet. But I am talking about the Pros that have attained Pro status, and maybe considered a Pro for some years now.

I would like to hear what some of you think about this!
 

backplaying

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Are some Pros afraid to play some other Pros?"

Yes.

Ego being the primary factor.

I have played several games and pool players have by far the biggest ego's. I would bet there are quite a few who refuse to play certain players due to the possibility of losing and hurting their ego. I also know there are a few out there that are not worth the trouble of gambling with do to their actions whiles playing with them.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dechaine won Turningstone and I think 4 of his matches went 9-8. Sure he won, but would the tournament have ended differently if Alex, Appleton, Earl, Thorsten and Ralph were in it? I think so.....definitely. Mike is a nice fellow, I'm happy for him for his wins and his dad is one of the nicest people I ever met, but rope is rope until steel cable is around.

He had several world beaters in his bracket, Hatch, Hundal, Klatt (Ok, a minor world beater but a top player anyway), Putnam and Morris. Either of those can beat Earl, Alex, etc... on a given day. It's parity at the top, more or less. Look at the 2 sets vs. Putnam, he lost one badly and won the finals by almost the same score on the other side.

There is not much domination anymore like Varner/Strickland/Sigel had when they were tops. Archer also I guess. Probably because there is no Pro Tour per se, so you can't say that so and so won 5 of 9 events because each event now is different games, races, etc...
 
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