Are talented filipinos "Under-Acheving" ??

C

Cezar Morales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi , like the title says, hope to hear some healthy insights , opinions for a beneficial discussion.

Heres what i think , filipinos are known for their smooth stroke and fancy ball control but i was just thinking about it and wondered when was the last time the filipinos won something "Major" ?!

Pool is one of the filipino's major pride ( from Efren paving the way ) but it seems like in recent years the taiwanese seems to have an upper edge over the filipinos and win almost all the major title.

From time to time , you will hear news " OVER-HYPING " the next big thing , from Dennis Orcollo to Carlo Biado to current Anton Raga but none of em have even won a major world title.
Dennis has played in countless Us open exceed 10 and biado has been in the pro circuit for years.

About 10 years ago , Dennis orcollo was touted to be the best money player on the universe and barked at then Taiwan money game king Yang chin hsun and got his ass handed real bad to him in front of his home crowd being massacred by 18 rack in a short race to 60 .
Besides , the man's about 40 and havent won a world 8 9 or 10 ball title .
On the other hand on the taiwanese, wu chia chin make 9ball look juvenile n childish by winning it at 15 and 8 ball at 16.
Ko pin yi had a crazy 2015 which imho set a record will never be repeated by sweeping both the world 9 and 10 ball ( lets omit the luck factor becoz no matter how lucky u get u dont win 2 world titled in 1 yr BY LUCK )
And in Kevin Cheng's 1st try , he won the us open.
And in the recent Japan Open big ko won it his second.

Now back to Filipinos who have won the world title , efren ( 9ball ) at 38 , busty ( 9ball ) over 45and youngest Ronnie Alcano ( prob 30's ) won the 9ball in 2006 and 8 ball in 2007 and went to the 9ball finals but lost in 2012.

Why do the filipinos seems to bloom at later age and win a major title when they're old while the taiwanese seems to all win titles young and early before they even hit 20's or 30's.

Has the taiwanese players been instilled a winning mentality from a young age or do the filipinos simply just choke under pressure when it matters despite being hyped to be the strongest pool country .

Dont get me wrong , Johann Chua and Raymond Farron has both won a All Japan Championship each but still seem trivial compared to the acheivements of the taiwanese.

In fact when it comes to Big Money competitions like those in China, the taiwanese seems to be sweeping it all.

Also when it comes to the youth world championships , theres a taiwanese prodigy wu yu lun who won 3, big n little ko won 1 each and beating a few filipinos like jericho banares in the finals.

Now let the healthy discussion on why filipino acheivements eems to be overshadowed by the taiwanese players ??
 
Dennis has won the 8ball world title.

Is Shane under-acheiving b/c he doesn't have a world title nor any international tournaments?? Does Shaw have a world title? No.



Albin has a world title and I dont think anyone would back him vs Dennis/Shane/Shaw.
 
Well no!

Dennis, Lee Van, Efren in One Pocket and all the rest of the Filipinos would remind you that they finish in the top 3 or 4 in EVERY competition no matter where or what.

Name the tournament and look at the leader board, who got in the Money and there they are.

And the best young talent in the Women's game is a Filipino player, I think they are doing just fine.
 
gxman said:
Dennis has won the 8ball world title.

Is Shane under-acheiving b/c he doesn't have a world title nor any international tournaments?? Does Shaw have a world title? No.



Albin has a world title and I dont think anyone would back him vs Dennis/Shane/Shaw.
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Hasn't Dennis won a world 10 ball and 9 ball?
 
Dennis has won DCC9b, Master of Table, Staight pool challenge at DCC, one bigfoot challenge at DCC, 9b banks at DCC, World 8b, China Open. 2x US Open 1pocket.

I think lost 2x in the US Open 9ball(to Shane and Mika?). Lost US Open 10b to Rodney. He has won some US Opens, but its on a 7ft diamond.

Winners of World 9b since 2010.,

Albin, Ko, Niels, Toasty, Darren, Yukio, Busty(2010).


World 10b, Hard to even win it since they don't always have the event.

Ko 2015
See 2011
Mika 2009
Darren 2008
 
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they are way behind the taiwanese in pool, way behind the chinese in chinese 8 ball,
and also behind the other single world elite players like shane darren and shaw

so yeah they're second tier and outside of efren and parica im not sure they could ever compete with the elite americans of yesteryear either
 
Dennis beat bustamante for the us open 10 ball on the 9 footer a few years ago. He lost to Shane in us open 9 ball finals twice
 
A bigger question?

Cezar Morales said:
Hi , like the title says, hope to hear some healthy insights , opinions for a beneficial discussion.

??
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Where are the American players??

Josh Roberts, on his way, just needs some international experience, he'll get there!
Billy Thorpe, well on his way, young, just needs time, a Champion in the making!
Sky, always improving. 2017 is going to be his year, has everything it takes!
SVB, maybe the best ever at 10 Ball and 9 Ball, time will tell, currently none better!

and then there was who?
 
Thanks for the insight guys.

True competition is tough n no doubt the filipinos have done well in dcc but again dcc is no " world " status although it does have alot of the world best player competing.

Here's a brownie for you guys to consider if it valids my stand.
When it comes to the world championships ( wpa 8, 9 or 10 ball )
Wu won it at 15 n 16 , Big Ko n lil Ko has world junior titles , Big Ko won world 9 n 10 ball at tender age of 27, Chao fong pang won 2 world 9 ball 1st at 23 n 30 yrs old n Chang jung lin won 8ball at 27

For the europeans, thorsten , souquet n mika all won 1 world 9ball before their 30 with d exception thosten won a 2nd one 7 yrs after his 1st.

So here's d stats , the taiwanese won an an amazing total of 7 world titles before they even turn 30.
Total of Entire europe combined , won 5 with the youngest being Albin whos only 26.

Filipinos , won 0 before 30.

When it comes to the most prestigious world champinoship , why arent the filipinos able to produce result when it matters when they are known to produce " talented " players ??

Whereas their taiwanese counterparts being a small country has churn out young champions after champions .
 
Whats the question?

Cezar Morales said:
When it comes to the most prestigious world champinoship , why arent the filipinos able to produce result when it matters when they are known to produce " talented " players ??

Whereas their taiwanese counterparts being a small country has churn out young champions after champions .
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Is your question why cant they win when their teenagers? And how does population play in?
 
Going only from memory Pagulayan won 2015 and 2016 master of table at DCC and Orcollo won 2014 master of table at DCC. Bustamante won 2013 master of table at DCC. Efren won 2010 master of table at DCC.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them.
 
Way off!!!

Are you kidding me?? Dennis Orcollo would beat Darren or Jayson playing every pool except maybe two. Straight pool and 9 or 10 ball and I would still bet on Dennis.
 
alstl said:
Going only from memory Pagulayan won 2015 and 2016 master of table at DCC and Orcollo won 2014 master of table at DCC. Bustamante won 2013 master of table at DCC. Efren won 2010 master of table at DCC.

.
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^^^^^^ This for one, so no, I don't think so. Biado has underachieved. I think the Kuwait Qualifiers also showed there's a whole new batch getting ready to breakthrough. I think the talent pool in the PI far outweighs that from Taiwan & China, they're just trapped there & don't get the exposure.
 
Your right.

Bank it said:
^^^^^^ This for one, so no, I don't think so. Biado has underachieved. I think the Kuwait Qualifiers also showed there's a whole new batch getting ready to breakthrough. I think the talent pool in the PI far outweighs that from Taiwan & China, they're just trapped there & don't get the exposure.
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A poor country vs one with resources, just look at the pool videos from the two countries and its not hard to see why a poor kid with no formal training might take longer to develop than a kid who comes up with a table at home or in school.
 
When the bet reaches the nosebleed level i like Dennis playing just about anybody. Dude can get the cash.
 
This is a fairly amusing thread to me. Dennis is still the money king of pool, just ask around if any top players want to challenge him to a long Ten Ball session. And that includes Ko Pin Yi, Shane and Jayson. For big money Dennis can still bring it! His record in tournaments isn't too shabby either. I know for a fact that he has had shoulder problems for the last six months and he's still made money playing in the toughest fields of players.

I will say once again that if every country put together a team of say five or six of their best players I would still pick the Philippines to come out on top. Taiwan is the only serious challenger and they don't have to like it either. There are probably 50-100 young players in the Philippines that you rarely hear about who could all win regional events over here or on the Euro Tour. Check out the "unknown" names that keep popping up in the International events, guys who get in through qualifiers etc. It looks like all Filipinos, just like in Kuwait.

If you went to any major tournament and just bet Philippines across the board in all their matches you would be big winners overall. They remain the hungriest pool players on the planet. They don't have special schools where they all practice together every day like they do in Taiwan or China. What they do is gamble among each other every day. Philippine pool players want to be in action all the time and are constantly making games with each other.

The third tier players are trying to beat the second tier players and the second tier players are trying to beat the first tier players. There will be over 100 players in the upcoming Manny Pacquiao event in General Santos City and most of them will be Filipinos. ALL these guys can play! If 100 of them came to the USA, an American would never win another event here, save for Shane and he wouldn't be too happy either.
 
jay helfert said:
Dennis is still the money king of pool, just ask around if any top players want to challenge him to a long Ten Ball session. And that includes Ko Pin Yi, Shane and Jayson.
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Pretty sure Shane had an open invitation to anyone in the world in a long 10-ball session and his backer was good to go.

Dennis simply cannot break well enough to beat SVB in a long winner breaks 10-ball match, and TAR proved that pretty clearly. If anything SVB is better now then the TAR days and I would say Dennis is a slight bit weaker, if for no other reason than having lost that fear factor he once had when people truly thought he was untouchable, prior to Yang and then Shane bringing him quite sharply back down to earth.

If Dennis went to Taiwan with a backer I am pretty sure they would find a long 10-ball match or two, and I am not sure they would like them. His last action match with Ko was a complete sham ending in the French fiasco.
 
jay helfert said:
This is a fairly amusing thread to me. Dennis is still the money king of pool, just ask around if any top players want to challenge him to a long Ten Ball session. And that includes Ko Pin Yi, Shane and Jayson. For big money Dennis can still bring it! His record in tournaments isn't too shabby either. I know for a fact that he has had shoulder problems for the last six months and he's still made money playing in the toughest fields of players.

I will say once again that if every country put together a team of say five or six of their best players I would still pick the Philippines to come out on top. Taiwan is the only serious challenger and they don't have to like it either. There are probably 50-100 young players in the Philippines that you rarely hear about who could all win regional events over here or on the Euro Tour. Check out the "unknown" names that keep popping up in the International events, guys who get in through qualifiers etc. It looks like all Filipinos, just like in Kuwait.

If you went to any major tournament and just bet Philippines across the board in all their matches you would be big winners overall. They remain the hungriest pool players on the planet. They don't have special schools where they all practice together every day like they do in Taiwan or China. What they do is gamble among each other every day. Philippine pool players want to be in action all the time and are constantly making games with each other.

The third tier players are trying to beat the second tier players and the second tier players are trying to beat the first tier players. There will be over 100 players in the upcoming Manny Pacquiao event in General Santos City and most of them will be Filipinos. ALL these guys can play! If 100 of them came to the USA, an American would never win another event here, save for Shane and he wouldn't be too happy either.
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No doubt for sure , filipinos are great players for sure but nobody has answered my question i've been pondering.
Okay lets keep it simple.


Question 1 )
Why hasnt any filipino won a wpa world title before their 30's if they are that good ?
On the other hand u got easily 4 to 5 taiwanese accomplishing that and 3 players ko and chao n wu won 2 each.
N wu really made it look amateue by winning it at 15 ?
Dennis orcollo has easily played in more than 10 wpa championships n only win 1 , and rather late in his career approaching 40.
Also , didnt a rsther young yang chin hsun masaccred Dennis for over 18 racks in a short race to 60 in front of Dennis 's home ground n crowd in manila ?

Question 2 )
When it comes to the wpa 9 ball title , why hasnt a filipino won it for a long time apart from Bust in 2010 which is rather long deserved considering he was in his 40's already ?

Question 3 )
Why hasnt a filipino won the prestigious Us Open when filipinos are known to play in for the past 10 yrs which Alcano won the last one for the filipinos.
Efren busty kiamco dennis corteza biado ignacio has participated more than once but Kevin Cheng made it look easy by winning at his 1st attempt ?


So here being my point , is it something about the system where taiwanese cultivate their players n instilled a winning mentality from a young age and they are taught nothing else but to simply win ?
The taiwanese are known for winning almost everything prestigious like the wpa title.

Also Chang jung lin recently went to 2 consecutive finals in the kuwait n us open.
On the other hand where was dennis biado n ignacio ?
Also , Ko had a fantastic yr in 2015 and he won the world 10 ball in the heart of philipines beating biado in front of his home crowd , why wasnt any filipino able to stop him and protect their home pride ?

To sum it up , is there something wrong with the filipino pool culture where money game is being encouraged compared to the taiwanese where fundementals are being drilled to cultivate killers under pressure ??
 
jay helfert said:
This is a fairly amusing thread to me. Dennis is still the money king of pool, just ask around if any top players want to challenge him to a long Ten Ball session. And that includes Ko Pin Yi, Shane and Jayson. For big money Dennis can still bring it! His record in tournaments isn't too shabby either. I know for a fact that he has had shoulder problems for the last six months and he's still made money playing in the toughest fields of players.

I will say once again that if every country put together a team of say five or six of their best players I would still pick the Philippines to come out on top. Taiwan is the only serious challenger and they don't have to like it either. There are probably 50-100 young players in the Philippines that you rarely hear about who could all win regional events over here or on the Euro Tour. Check out the "unknown" names that keep popping up in the International events, guys who get in through qualifiers etc. It looks like all Filipinos, just like in Kuwait.

If you went to any major tournament and just bet Philippines across the board in all their matches you would be big winners overall. They remain the hungriest pool players on the planet. They don't have special schools where they all practice together every day like they do in Taiwan or China. What they do is gamble among each other every day. Philippine pool players want to be in action all the time and are constantly making games with each other.

The third tier players are trying to beat the second tier players and the second tier players are trying to beat the first tier players. There will be over 100 players in the upcoming Manny Pacquiao event in General Santos City and most of them will be Filipinos. ALL these guys can play! If 100 of them came to the USA, an American would never win another event here, save for Shane and he wouldn't be too happy either.
Click to expand...



I have a long standing rule that says....Jay H is always right. This of coarse comes with an exception.

SVB has a special place in Dennis's head. It unmistakable that he currently ownes his soul.


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