Are we trending towards 15ball rotation?

Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With all the threads about 9ball and 10ball rules that don't work, are we just in denial about eventually going to full rack rotation? I have played rotation with a VERY good local player who is from the Phillipines. He was nice enough to teach me how the game works, and once I kinda got it.....it is a superior game IMO. I'm just not sure I remember the rules :) I like that there is a set pattern the balls go in the rack, and that you only have to hit the ball not a rail after. Also, the spot shot is a BIG part of the game. If anyone here knows the full set of rules? can you be so kind as to fill me in?

I play full rack here, but I just play it like 10ball because I forget the rules!

thanx, G.
 
I don't think the trend is going that way.

I think the competition is just scratching the surface of 10-ball.

How many years has 9-ball been around vs 10-ball ?
 
Gerry said:
With all the threads about 9ball and 10ball rules that don't work, are we just in denial about eventually going to full rack rotation? I have played rotation with a VERY good local player who is from the Phillipines. He was nice enough to teach me how the game works, and once I kinda got it.....it is a superior game IMO. I'm just not sure I remember the rules :) I like that there is a set pattern the balls go in the rack, and that you only have to hit the ball not a rail after. Also, the spot shot is a BIG part of the game. If anyone here knows the full set of rules? can you be so kind as to fill me in?

I play full rack here, but I just play it like 10ball because I forget the rules!

thanx, G.
Click to expand...

The problem with Rotation is that since the majority of pool players are pot smokers, alcoholics or ex-convicts, they find it very difficult to score. Half the time one spends playing 8-ball is spent reminding your opponent what ball grouping he has. If they can't even remember that, doing simple addition is beyond their capabilities.

Obviously you could remove the balls when one person pots and then add them up at the end but that tends to break up the flow of the game.

Far better is to score as follows.

5-ball is 1 point.
10-ball is 2 points.
15-ball is 3 points.

This is the best version for most players because they can play without having to count up anything difficult.
 
I've said for years the pro game should be 15-ball rotation. F tv. They don't want pool on US tv so to hell with them. Johnnyt
 
Geometry said:
The problem with Rotation is that since the majority of pool players are pot smokers, alcoholics or ex-convicts, they find it very difficult to score. Half the time one spends playing 8-ball is spent reminding your opponent what ball grouping he has. If they can't even remember that, doing simple addition is beyond their capabilities.

Obviously you could remove the balls when one person pots and then add them up at the end but that tends to break up the flow of the game.

Far better is to score as follows.

5-ball is 1 point.
10-ball is 2 points.
15-ball is 3 points.

This is the best version for most players because they can play without having to count up anything difficult.
Click to expand...


One person gets the 5 and 10 ball for a total of 3 points and the other gets the 15 ball for 3 points...then what?
 
Wouldn't this be a good thing? As 9 ball becomes easier, why not play a tougher game? I suppose we did start way back when with straight pool being the dominant game, then progressed to 9 ball because it was faster. But as the players get better now, we'll soon revert to a longer game to differentiate the good from the best.
 
I assure you that we would find plenty to b*tch about with rotation too.

As a matter of fact, I'll just get it started right now. The scoring in rotation is backwards, IMO. The first 5 balls in the rack are many times harder to run than the last 5, yet the last 5 balls net 75 points versus only 20 for the first 5. Obviously, you can't reverse the order if you are only going to 61 points, because somebody could win by running only 5 balls versus the 11 currently required. But you could reverse the order if you played the game to say 1,000-2,000 points in a continuous fashion, with the player pocketing the last ball (the 1-ball) earning the break in the next rack.

Aaron
 
theArtofPool said:
Wouldn't this be a good thing? As 9 ball becomes easier, why not play a tougher game?
Click to expand...

9-ball became the "game du jour" because it takes (almost) exactly 7 minutes to play a rack--just perfect for TV (comercials, not the fans watching). Excepting 10-ball, no other game has this kind of long term average game (short) length.

The problem with 9-ball is that the sanctioning bodies are/were not willing to just let the rules stay as they were--trying to fix something that was not even broken. The fixes have simply shown that the fixes have broken the game. Go back to the pre-2003 rules and everything will be fine--soft breaks included with lots of break-and-runs. This greatly magnifies the skill used in the lag.

As to 15-ball rotation, this often degenerates into long complicated safety battles-that is, not very entertaining on TV.
 
yea there is a little basic math playing rotation, but you just group the balls in "10's" and it is simple. I don't remember many long safety battles when I played, but the strategy of hitting balls, and when to return the shot to the other guy is HUGE.

Sure, in the begining of the game the balls are worth less, but that is the beauty of the game. Control the table early, and take advantage of billiards, combos, and caroms on higher number balls and there is no reason to clear the table, just get to your number. Which brings up another point. Handicapping rotation HAS to be easier. You can spot a number of points....which has to be easier then a ball, or games like in 9ball right?

I dunno, if many of the worlds best players are brought up in the Phillipines playing rotation, then it is the hardest AND best test of skill IMO. The killer Pinoy crew did NOT grow up playing 9 ball.....thats why 9 ball is a basic joke for them to play.

G.
 
Gerry said:
With all the threads about 9ball and 10ball rules that don't work, are we just in denial about eventually going to full rack rotation? I have played rotation with a VERY good local player who is from the Phillipines. He was nice enough to teach me how the game works, and once I kinda got it.....it is a superior game IMO. I'm just not sure I remember the rules :) I like that there is a set pattern the balls go in the rack, and that you only have to hit the ball not a rail after. Also, the spot shot is a BIG part of the game. If anyone here knows the full set of rules? can you be so kind as to fill me in?

I play full rack here, but I just play it like 10ball because I forget the rules!

thanx, G.
Click to expand...

There are 2 variations that Mark Wilson recommends for training purposes:

#1 - Regular rotation, 15 balls, each ball counts only 1 point, but follow all other rules of rotation. Play a race to 1000 over 3 days, and your 9 ball skills are certain to improve.

#2 - As above, but use 21 balls (can order an Aramith set of #16 thru #21 for a reasonable price from Mueller's). You will have more difficult kicks in one day with this game than you will in 1 month playing 9 ball. It is no accident the Filipino's kick better than we do, this game helps even more. Mark plays them on a 10 foot Brunswick, but they're still good on the 9 footers.

Only a serious player is ready for these variations, but I'm quite suspicious that you are one of those players. Personally I much prefer these variations to regular rotation, definitely even better for your game than the usual version. Good luck.
 
Williebetmore said:
There are 2 variations that Mark Wilson recommends for training purposes:

#1 - Regular rotation, 15 balls, each ball counts only 1 point, but follow all other rules of rotation. Play a race to 1000 over 3 days, and your 9 ball skills are certain to improve.
Click to expand...

I like that scoring method. Having the same value for each ball makes sense to me for a competitive game as well.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
I like that scoring method. Having the same value for each ball makes sense to me for a competitive game as well.

Aaron
Click to expand...

Very easy to handicap as well. Players from mid-amateur to pro level can compete intensely with appropriate handicaps.
 
Danny K's version called Rotation Continuous is my favorite. Each ball equals 1 point, go to 100 or more points... open break, if you make one ball in hand. If you miss ball in hand for your opponent.

Rotation is the best.

Max

free boot camp maxeberle.com
 
maxeberle said:
Danny K's version called Rotation Continuous is my favorite. Each ball equals 1 point, go to 100 or more points... open break, if you make one ball in hand. If you miss ball in hand for your opponent.

Rotation is the best.

Max

free boot camp maxeberle.com
Click to expand...

Is the last ball of the rack left on the table as a break shot or does the next rack start with another open break?

In searching for more info on this game I can see why you like it so much.:wink:

Rotation Continuous
 
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maxeberle said:
Danny K's version called Rotation Continuous is my favorite. Each ball equals 1 point, go to 100 or more points... open break, if you make one ball in hand. If you miss ball in hand for your opponent.

Rotation is the best.

Max

free boot camp maxeberle.com
Click to expand...

see that! Max and Willie even agree there are awsome versions of rotation that will bring uss all to the next level! :) actually I just tried the link Max left on this post....you guys gotta try this.....excellent practice!

maybe we can get SVB to try a TAR event playing rotation with one of the premier Pinoy monsters?.....AWSOME!



G.
 
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