Arizona Open 2026, Yuma, August 13-16

something_pool said:
I never said Gorst wasn't a great player. I said that MOT titles don't determine that. You can't just look at Reyes' 5 MOT titles and say that that's the benchmark for equaling his greatness as a player. It would be like saying Buddy Hall wasn't one of the all time greats because he doesn't have a world championship -- that misses that there was no world championship until he was already well past his prime.

"Best" is not the same as "greatest." Fedor is probably already a "better" player than Efren was -- that's the nature of progress in every sport; the younger players learn from the older ones and stand on the shoulders of giants. But that's not the same thing as being a "greater" player: context matters, and access to information also matters. Inventing new knowledge is harder than learning that same knowledge.

I personally don't think that Fedor (or anyone) has revolutionized the game in the way that Efren has, but that's not to say that it's impossible.
Click to expand...
The best 9-Ball player of them all was Buddy Hall. Efren was only best at One Pocket. The greatest player at all games I ever saw remains Harold Worst.
 
sjm said:
I'd say that if you don't think Gorst is already on the short list of the best ever all-around players like Lassiter, Varner, Reyes, SVB or Pagulayan, you overlook just how special Gorst is. I have been around pro pool long enough to have watched all of them, and Fedor is already deserving of inclusion in serious all-around GOAT conversations.

Much in the way that Ronnie Allen did in the 1970s, Fedor has helped bring one pocket to a level previously unseen. He is also already among the best that ever played bank pool and his rotation pool skills are, undeniably, super-elite.

Right now, we are watching the best cueists that ever screwed a cue together. It is not sacrilegious to suggest that, even as all-an around player, Fedor has a chance to be remembered as having surpassed Efren as an all-around player. Of course, he hasn't done it yet, and maybe he never will, but keep an eye out.

However it plays out it should be enjoyable to see how it develops.
Click to expand...
Sigel was a better all around player than that entire group you named. He simply excelled at 14.1, 9-Ball and One Pocket. Played strong Banks (Varner speed) as well.

Ronnie definitely changed the way One Pocket was played but no one had his creativity and knowledge. Then Efren came along and shook the entire One Pocket world with his unique shot making and cue ball mastery.
 
something_pool said:
"Best" is not the same as "greatest." Fedor is probably already a "better" player than Efren was -- that's the nature of progress in every sport; the younger players learn from the older ones and stand on the shoulders of giants. But that's not the same thing as being a "greater" player: context matters, and access to information also matters. Inventing new knowledge is harder than learning that same knowledge.
Click to expand...
Agreed, best is irrelevant. Greatness is measured in titles, and titles are won against one's contemporaries. That's why cross-generation comparisons are so difficult.

Ultimately, the question will be whether Gorst dominated his contemporaries in all-around play more or less than Efren dominated his contemporaries, not who the better player was. Perhaps by the time he retires, Fedor will have done just that, and perhaps not, but it would be foolish to suggest that it can't happen.

And, yes, Gorst is going for, and completing, one-pocket runouts on which Efren would have passed and his incredible banking skills make him a greater threat to rally to win an up-table rack than any player I've ever watched. The execution skill of a player like Fedor has changed the game of one pocket a lot and, even on this forum, it has been often noted that the moves oriented one pocket players are not winning as often as they did in the last generation of play.
 
Last edited:
Yowser. Not much of a final with Grabe ahead 9-2. The WNT major finals this year have all been lopsided. Well, at least the semis were exciting.
 
sjm said:
Yes, but, after breaking wet, SVB failed on two different safeties in the double hill rack and Pecelj, consequently, beat him to the next shot. When that chance came, Pecelj made no mistake about the runout and closed it out.
Click to expand...
I was talking about last night when he went 9 and out to win from being down 9-1
 
OK, have to admit that I bailed on the final and went to bed when it was 10-4. Grabe looked like a sure thing and it was well after midnight. Well played, Dennis.
 
Would be nice for WNT to have a little more info on the Phoenix Open. They have the streams ready to go for tomorrow, but it's not even listed in the upcoming events.
 
datnodude said:
Wnt has to do a better job of scheduling next year and I know they work with predator now to not overlap but these 3 tournaments in a row is kinda dumb
Click to expand...
Wow! It's just the opposite.

The WNT had done a poor job of scheduling in prior years, and participating meant huge amounts of travel from continent to continent and country to country. It also meant high player expenses.

A year ago, WNT was widely praised by the players for how it put together the schedule for August, which had, in consecutive weeks, offered a) the Rally in the Shenandoah Valley (Virginia), b) The Florida Open (Florida), c) The Battle of the Bull (Virginia), and d) The US Open 9ball (New Jersey), in four consecutive weeks. Countless players participated in all four events and the foreign players showed up in droves.

This year, things got even better with Vice City (Florida), the Florida Open (Florida), the Arizona Open (Arizona), the Phoenix Open (Arizona), and the US Open 9ball (Texas) played over five consecutive weeks. I've discussed it with more than a few of them and the players love it when the schedule looks like this.

With so many events on the world pool calendar, we have reached the point where more than a few of the stars of European and Asian pool won't come to America unless there is a series of events in which they can play, because participation costs are much more manageable in this scenario.

If SVB was tired, it was surely because of his long race with Fedor, not because he had to compete in a six-day event in Florida in which he played just two matches on each of the last three days and then, after a three-day break, a four-day event in Arizona with a similarly light match schedule. Actually, unlike the two finalists at the Florida Open, he skipped the first two WNT events, foregoing foreign travel in each case.

Playing in tourneys week after week is something SVB has done for his entire career. Stamina was no issue at all for SVB at Derby City this January, in which he played dozens of matches over ten consecutive days, and he was as sharp on Day 10 as on any other day, winning the one pocket final and securing Master of the Table.

To serve the players' best interests, pro pool needs more of this kind of scheduling, not less.
 
jasonlaus said:
I think he'll do it. Greatest player of our time repeatedly. Wish Filler played all games.
Click to expand...
Now that made me laugh.

At 28 years old, Josh has already a) mass-produced titles at rotation pool, b) won the American 14.1 Championship and the European 14.1 Championship, c) won the World 8ball title, d) won the Buffalo Billiards 1-pocket, and e) won the DCC Master of the Table.

Which other games do you want him to take up?
 
sjm said:
OK, have to admit that I bailed on the final and went to bed when it was 10-4. Grabe looked like a sure thing and it was well after midnight. Well played, Dennis.
Click to expand...
It was clearly over by that point.

Match went as I expected. Grabe was unquestionably the best player in the event. Pecelj was very good, but not championship caliber.

Grabe is another player in his later 30s getting a second win of sorts in his career. He's improved quite a bit in the past few years.

Grabe has always had a powerful break. He's gotten better at pattern play and the defensive side of the game - he always has a two-way shot in mind. More deliberate in his approach and more maturity to his game. He hardly ever seems rattled.

If he stays in shape, he'll win more events in the next stage of his career.
 
congrats denis. nice to see an old trooper like him win one of these. he's been a tough draw for near two decades, goes all around the world and plays a lot of tournaments. not a finesse player by any means but he gets it done, with his characteristic lateral elbow drop and all. is it the wonkiest stroke to win a WNT title? who else do we have as a contender for that title?
 
The Fargos of the Arizona finalists were 809 for both Pecelj (No. 52) and Grabe (No. 55).

Twenty-seven other players in the event had higher Fargos.
 
sjm said:
If SVB was tired, it was surely because of his long race with Fedor, not because he had to compete in a six-day event in Florida in which he played just two matches on each of the last three days and then, after a three-day break, a four-day event in Arizona with a similarly light match schedule. Actually, unlike the two finalists at the Florida Open, he skipped the first two WNT events, foregoing foreign travel in each case.

Playing in tourneys week after week is something SVB has done for his entire career. Stamina was no issue at all for SVB at Derby City this January, in which he played dozens of matches over ten consecutive days, and he was as sharp on Day 10 as on any other day, winning the one pocket final and securing Master of the Table.
Click to expand...
I get it, but SVB plainly looked tired and played as such. He actually admitted he "was tired" in a WNT interview Saturday night after his quarterfinal win.

Why? I don't know. Maybe it was the travel. Maybe it's because he's 43. Maybe it's because he doesn't know how to conserve his energy. JJ said he was at the hotel at 10:30 even though his match wasn't until 3 pm-ish.
 
jbart65 said:
It was clearly over by that point.

Match went as I expected. Grabe was unquestionably the best player in the event. Pecelj was very good, but not championship caliber.

Grabe is another player in his later 30s getting a second win of sorts in his career. He's improved quite a bit in the past few years.

Grabe has always had a powerful break. He's gotten better at pattern play and the defensive side of the game - he always has a two-way shot in mind. More deliberate in his approach and more maturity to his game. He hardly ever seems rattled.

If he stays in shape, he'll win more events in the next stage of his career.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Dennis has been in some big spots before and has played well. He beat an in-form Filler in the final at the 2025 Las Vegas Open. The moment was not too big for him, but it appeared a bit too big for Pecelj.

Dennis has always been a pretty tough out, and he's a bit more reliable tactically than he used to be, even though I still find his defensive choices to be a bit passive at times.

Dennis and best friend Alex Kazakis are having a nice stay in America so far, as Kazakis made $18,000 last week in Orlando and Grabe just won $25,000 in Yuma.

Well played!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top