Arrested for Ivory sale

Bavafongoul said:
State and federal laws are different. Federal laws with ivory deal with interstate and international commerce
whereas state laws regulate intrastate commerce. Business conducted within the same state is intrastate.

U.S. Fish & Wildlife should respect the absence, or enactment, of state laws regulating intrastate commerce.
Federal law is always preeminent to state law but state sovereignty also applies as outlined in the Constitution.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the U.S. Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or, to the people. Each state has the authority to create its own laws, to
operate its own judicial system, and to effectively govern itself. If a state says ivory can still be sold, case closed.
When it says ivory cannot, or stipulates specific terms & conditions for the sale of ivory within the state, ditto again.
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If you are "commercializing" ivory, you are subject to forfeiting any of it

I'm not preaching, just pointing out how absolutely real the law is here, it's how the dealer in the article got busted. Wait for them to start busting cue shows since guys are continuing to import ivory
 
Ran across a picture from "Wildlife Photographer of The Year" photo contest, which is relevant to ivory trade restrictions.


Dusting for new evidence -- Britta Jaschinski.jpg



Photo courtesy of Britta Jaschinski. Here's a quote from the description:

Trying to find fingerprints on an elephant tusk used to be a futile exercise. Conventional techniques could not detect prints because the porous ivory absorbs them in about 24 hours.

A new magnetic powder enables experts to get fingerprints from ivory up to 28 days after it was touched. This increases the chances of identifying those involved in its illegal trade.
 
pt109 said:
Shoot that piano player!
View attachment 783304
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There are exceptions for some musical instruments now but I wouldn't travel with anything without copies of paperwork. They have seized instruments in the past for as little as suspected ivory frets.

You find out how much power the feds have in a hurry if you get on the wrong side of them. I had a truck stolen, eighteen wheeler. They ran the country coast to coast for six months then were caught, without the truck. Local guys questioned them for three weeks, no results. "I would rather die than tell you where that truck is at!" After three weeks the feds moved in. Inside fifteen minutes one came out the room. "Your tractor is in Daytona Beach and your trailer in Orlando." Apparently when you tell the feds you would rather die it is an option!

I was disappointed to find the ivory in old pianos is just a veneer on the keys. I was looking for a few cheap!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
There are exceptions for some musical instruments now but I wouldn't travel with anything without copies of paperwork. They have seized instruments in the past for as little as suspected ivory frets.

You find out how much power the feds have in a hurry if you get on the wrong side of them. I had a truck stolen, eighteen wheeler. They ran the country coast to coast for six months then were caught, without the truck. Local guys questioned them for three weeks, no results. "I would rather die than tell you where that truck is at!" After three weeks the feds moved in. Inside fifteen minutes one came out the room. "Your tractor is in Daytona Beach and your trailer in Orlando." Apparently when you tell the feds you would rather die it is an option!

I was disappointed to find the ivory in old pianos is just a veneer on the keys. I was looking for a few cheap!

Hu
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I have a guy that i use to buy alot of Pre-Ban Ivory from for Guitars. That was his entire business now he's just selling bone parts. I could probably pick something up from him, but i would have to travel to Georgia.
 
Zerksies said:
I have a guy that i use to buy alot of Pre-Ban Ivory from for Guitars. That was his entire business now he's just selling bone parts. I could probably pick something up from him, but i would have to travel to Georgia.
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The idea that you might be the one they make an example of takes the fun out of ivory. The feds monitor most markets and see through the euphuisms for ivory as easily as everyone else. I like a beautiful ivory cue but if it is ivory I want all the white to be ivory. I hate looking at a beautiful cue then get down to a Delrin buttcap. Stronger but it clashes.

Holly can make a pretty nice imitation ivory. Was going to try some before I got wiped out.

Hu
 
Z-Nole said:
So if I play with an almost 20 year old cue that has a decent amount of ivory in it, does that mean I can never sell it?
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Not in NYS...but you dam sure don't advertise it.

Stupid law becit shouldn't be retroactive....but then again you can't prove when each cue was made or where the ivory came from.

They used to kill several elephants to make a 16 ball set....there's photos of literally mountains of ivory tusks in piles on ships.

What they are trying to do is kill the entire market for ivory so the people in 3rd world countries have no reason to poach the animals.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
The Feds are worse to have on your ass than a crazy ex-girlfriend. She, at least, believes she loves you. The Feds suffer from no such illusions.
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Guilty til proven innocent
Almost all cases resolved with guilty pleas
Yeah....big brother doesn't play

Wasn't that long ago Ernie Gutierrez Gina Cues got busted big time for this. He really should have known better too.
 
SBC said:
Not in NYS...but you dam sure don't advertise it.

Stupid law becit shouldn't be retroactive....but then again you can't prove when each cue was made or where the ivory came from.

They used to kill several elephants to make a 16 ball set....there's photos of literally mountains of ivory tusks in piles on ships.

What they are trying to do is kill the entire market for ivory so the people in 3rd world countries have no reason to poach the animals.
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In order to help establish provenance for my cues, aside from the extensive written communications with my cue makers discussing my cue designs, actually placing my order, numerous dated progress photos of my cues actually being built, proof of payment, proof of shipping dates and lastly, I instructed my cue makers to sign and date my cues.

I am very confident I could substantiate and convince any court or federal or state agency that my cues were legally built before July 1, 2016. Each of my cues has its own folder with photos, emails, proof of payment, copies of my hand drawn designs for the cue maker to use and communication with CA Fish & Wildlife about my pool cues. I am certain my cues can be proven to be legal. However, when dealing with anyone in authority that has the power to overrule or disregard the information presented, sometimes you might encounter an asshole who doesn’t care and just rolls over you.

You might win at appeal but your cue would still have been confiscated and possibly destroyed if the inspecting agency
decided it was still necessary to confirm the age of the ivory in your pool cue. So it is smart to compile as much proof
as you can to help substantiate your cue was indeed built before the ivory ban in your state took effect. I think I have.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
The Feds are worse to have on your ass than a crazy ex-girlfriend. She, at least, believes she loves you. The Feds suffer from no such illusions.
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Funny you should mention a crazy ex girlfriend. That is how the thief got caught. He had an ex he had made a couple of babies with. Neglected child support for months. With the truck laid up and nothing to do he called his ex thinking about a little visit. "How are things around town?"

"Oh baby, it is cool. Come on back." Might have been cool had she not called the law herself. She was pissed about the nonsupport. When he stepped in her door two detectives were waiting for him!

Hu
 
The following article & the quotes from it are from 3/2022

www.theartnewspaper.com

Antiquities dealers appeal restrictive New York ban on ivory

The appeal primarily challenges restrictions around the display of commercial ivory objects in the state
www.theartnewspaper.com www.theartnewspaper.com

“In 2015 and 2017, New York officials held public “ivory crushes” in Times Square and Central Park, collectively destroying more than $12.5m worth of seized ivory objects. In the earlier event, Joseph Martins, the director of New York’s department of environmental conservation, told attendees he knew “everyone was anxious to see the crush of all the worthless items” brought to the event, and that “the reason they’re worthless is because they’re not attached to an elephant”.”

“The state-wide mandate prohibits the sale and display of objects containing worked or raw ivory from elephants and mammoths that contain more than 20% ivory or are less than 100 years old, and states that ivory objects can be legally sold to collectors outside of New York, either online or via catalogue, but that dealers must obtain a special license.”
 
fjk said:
Yup, 100k in drug overdoses every year largely coming from non-existent borders and they plan a sting to nab Kenny for selling used pool cues with ivory.

PS: We need to change our code words for ivory; they're on to "the good stuff".
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I'm leaning towards white gold...

Jaden
 
Mr Machine said:
The following article & the quotes from it are from 3/2022

www.theartnewspaper.com

Antiquities dealers appeal restrictive New York ban on ivory

The appeal primarily challenges restrictions around the display of commercial ivory objects in the state
www.theartnewspaper.com www.theartnewspaper.com

“In 2015 and 2017, New York officials held public “ivory crushes” in Times Square and Central Park, collectively destroying more than $12.5m worth of seized ivory objects. In the earlier event, Joseph Martins, the director of New York’s department of environmental conservation, told attendees he knew “everyone was anxious to see the crush of all the worthless items” brought to the event, and that “the reason they’re worthless is because they’re not attached to an elephant”.”

“The state-wide mandate prohibits the sale and display of objects containing worked or raw ivory from elephants and mammoths that contain more than 20% ivory or are less than 100 years old, and states that ivory objects can be legally sold to collectors outside of New York, either online or via catalogue, but that dealers must obtain a special license.”
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That's one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Let's make ivory and items made from ivory more scarce so that it's value goes even higher, because we don't want people trading and selling items with ivory in it. Unfortunately, that's par for the course as is the case with most pushes from those types of people. Let's do the thing that will most go against what we say we are for. DURRR!!!!

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
That's one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Let's make ivory and items made from ivory more scarce so that it's value goes even higher, because we don't want people trading and selling items with ivory in it. Unfortunately, that's par for the course as is the case with most pushes from those types of people. Let's do the thing that will most go against what we say we are for. DURRR!!!!

Jaden
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FTR.. every appeal, every court filing against the ban has lost. I think it's Feds 13 everyone else ZERO.

JV
 
Anybody still jackin' with ivory in cues is a moron. Just use the synthetics, you can't tell it apart. The fines and possible time in jail are not wort it.
 
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