Article by Badi Nazhat
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Originally Posted by markgw View Post
Do you know what the cost of getting radio and tv appearances would be to promote this event? Zero, zilch, nada. We go on the radio and do tv appearances before almost every show my band plays. I do radio interviews to help with the promotion a few weeks before the show and the day of show we go on the morning news and play a couple of tunes. All it takes is a few phone calls from an experienced publicist to set this up. They could have Archer, Strickland or any of the top pro's on the morning news. The radio is more forthcoming than you would think also. This is a way to promote the event free. So you have a couple of pro's on the local news, pro's doing radio interviews prior to the event, and everyone within' a 100 mile radius getting information on this event. Use the internet effectively also<<<<<That's huge!!!
In my little piece of the world the local newspaper is always looking for content. I've never had a problem getting free press. I just ask.
Do you know what the cost of getting radio and tv appearances would be to promote this event? Zero, zilch, nada. We go on the radio and do tv appearances before almost every show my band plays. I do radio interviews to help with the promotion a few weeks before the show and the day of show we go on the morning news and play a couple of tunes. All it takes is a few phone calls from an experienced publicist to set this up. They could have Archer, Strickland or any of the top pro's on the morning news. The radio is more forthcoming than you would think also. This is a way to promote the event free. So you have a couple of pro's on the local news, pro's doing radio interviews prior to the event, and everyone within' a 100 mile radius getting information on this event. Use the internet effectively also<<<<<That's huge!!!
In my little piece of the world the local newspaper is always looking for content. I've never had a problem getting free press. I just ask.
When it comes to pro pool. all pro players are "players no one has ever heard of" - including SVB. That's the real problem we have. No one is buying the product we have for sale.
Roger
TV Exposure - 20 TIMES more than the average (top 10) Pro makes these days.
One of the main differences is in opportunity for sponsorship money from within the industry. If the game isn't no TV/ESPN it isn't worth much to have a Pro player indorse your cue, table or (other) billiard product.
For example, Earl was making over $200,000 a year in endorsements alone. That's approximately 20 TIMES more than the average (top 10) Pro makes these days.
It's simply not worth anything playing on "streaming video" in front of hard core pool fans....they don't spend much money on products or accessories compared to the general public viewers.
In 1996 several of us made well over $300,000 between prize money, endorsements and billiard related revenue. The top 10 American players put together don't make that much......this is ALL because of the ESPN coverage we were using to expose our personal brand and expose cues, tables, and products to millions of people.
One of the main differences is in opportunity for sponsorship money from within the industry. If the game isn't no TV/ESPN it isn't worth much to have a Pro player indorse your cue, table or (other) billiard product.
For example, Earl was making over $200,000 a year in endorsements alone. That's approximately 20 TIMES more than the average (top 10) Pro makes these days.
It's simply not worth anything playing on "streaming video" in front of hard core pool fans....they don't spend much money on products or accessories compared to the general public viewers.
In 1996 several of us made well over $300,000 between prize money, endorsements and billiard related revenue. The top 10 American players put together don't make that much......this is ALL because of the ESPN coverage we were using to expose our personal brand and expose cues, tables, and products to millions of people.
We know like in the false economy of the Bush yrs ,, the same thing happened in pool with ESPN paying big numbers to fill air time before they locked up all big sports contracts that they have today ,, reaching those numbers now with the exception of a elite few would seem very unlikely ,,
Just for the record who were the several making over 300k and out of how many pro pool players
9
The key is reaching a market that is not currently playing pool and doesn't .........
ESPN and other major networks have many hours to fill, no one said we would get "prime time," but even a late night slot is better than everything that's being done now put together. The key is reaching a market that is not currently playing pool and doesn't consider it an entertainment option.
ESPN and other major networks have many hours to fill, no one said we would get "prime time," but even a late night slot is better than everything that's being done now put together. The key is reaching a market that is not currently playing pool and doesn't consider it an entertainment option.
So you're saying that at one time several players (you being one of them) were actually receiving a decent income off of pro pool? What happened to that? If Earl was making over $200,000 a year, shouldn't he have invested some of that in a business, or businesses, in other branches of the industry so that he would have something else going for him today, rather than being almost destitute?
You're one of the very few pro players, CJ, who has seen the importance of taking what you already have, and building on it. It appears that you have done well for yourself. There are others like Alan Hopkins and Nick Varner who have realized that trying to stray on top as a player forever is game that only fools play. They, like yourself, have taken their reputations as players, and used them to build businesses off of. Very smart, in my opinion.
So I don't subscribe to the idea that pro players aren't paid as much as they are worth, as much as I believe that most of them are guilty of mismanaging anything they do make. I actually believe that if the average take for pro players was $3 million a year, most of them would blow $3 million a year (and then holler for more). They can't keep demanding more money for their services, when the demand for their services isn't there.
Roger
sports are on TV and as a result the Pros make a decent living.
Pro athletes are known as some of the worst money managers, and that's their prerogative.....what someone does or doesn't do with their own money is no one's concern but theres. Some of life's best lessons cost a fortune, and that's cheap.
I know of several Dallas Cowboys that have blown tens of millions of dollars and laugh about it, same with several other pro athletes I know.....at some point they all "real eyes" that having more money doesn't equate to more of anything else.....having too much money and not enough maturity can lead to some awful consequences....and, again, that's just life teaching life's lessons.
Without TV no pro athlete would make much of a living and they certainly wouldn't have any major sponsors...of course that's not reality, the reality is - sports are on TV and as a result the Pros make a decent living......some more "decent" than others.
Pro athletes are known as some of the worst money managers, and that's their prerogative.....what someone does or doesn't do with their own money is no one's concern but theres. Some of life's best lessons cost a fortune, and that's cheap.
I know of several Dallas Cowboys that have blown tens of millions of dollars and laugh about it, same with several other pro athletes I know.....at some point they all "real eyes" that having more money doesn't equate to more of anything else.....having too much money and not enough maturity can lead to some awful consequences....and, again, that's just life teaching life's lessons.
Without TV no pro athlete would make much of a living and they certainly wouldn't have any major sponsors...of course that's not reality, the reality is - sports are on TV and as a result the Pros make a decent living......some more "decent" than others.
Pro athletes are known as some of the worst money managers, and that's their prerogative.....what someone does or doesn't do with their own money is no one's concern but theres. Some of life's best lessons cost a fortune, and that's cheap.
I know of several Dallas Cowboys that have blown tens of millions of dollars and laugh about it, same with several other pro athletes I know.....at some point they all "real eyes" that having more money doesn't equate to more of anything else.....having too much money and not enough maturity can lead to some awful consequences....and, again, that's just life teaching life's lessons.
Without TV no pro athlete would make much of a living and they certainly wouldn't have any major sponsors...of course that's not reality, the reality is - sports are on TV and as a result the Pros make a decent living......some more "decent" than others.
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It ends up being the big fish eating the little fish who eat the littler fish......
That doesn't make any sense, what the players do with their money is irrelevant. It costs money to pay expenses and it's not a good model when approximately 80% of the participants can't even break even after paying expenses.
When you have a tournament with 100 players, they average $1000 per person in travel/food/lodging/etc - that's $100,000 (they also pay an entry fee, but let's take if for granted it goes back into the prize fund).
If the promoter adds $50,000 that's a net loss of $50,000 overall.....this will never gain any momentum, as a matter of fact it will lose over time......and this has proven accurate. It ends up being the big fish eating the little fish who eat the littler fish......
I wouldn't mind losing money if there was other reasons to go ie: Charity Events - Pro Ams - TV - Classy Ladies, etc - it's not "all about money," but if there's nothing else then it is "all about money"......there must be an incentive that makes sense....or it's just a bunch of people gathering to share a "hobby"....which is ok if that's what the goal is, however, I do believe it could more......much more.
That doesn't make any sense, what the players do with their money is irrelevant. It costs money to pay expenses and it's not a good model when approximately 80% of the participants can't even break even after paying expenses.
When you have a tournament with 100 players, they average $1000 per person in travel/food/lodging/etc - that's $100,000 (they also pay an entry fee, but let's take if for granted it goes back into the prize fund).
If the promoter adds $50,000 that's a net loss of $50,000 overall.....this will never gain any momentum, as a matter of fact it will lose over time......and this has proven accurate. It ends up being the big fish eating the little fish who eat the littler fish......
I wouldn't mind losing money if there was other reasons to go ie: Charity Events - Pro Ams - TV - Classy Ladies, etc - it's not "all about money," but if there's nothing else then it is "all about money"......there must be an incentive that makes sense....or it's just a bunch of people gathering to share a "hobby"....which is ok if that's what the goal is, however, I do believe it could more......much more.
stillplayin
Banned
Pool is a fringe sport
Just came from the Central PA barbox 6th annual toyrnament and I can tell you pool isn't dead, Professional pool may be. They filled a hotel, brought in 27 tables, had over 130 nine ball players and 198 in eight ball, also womes and mixed doubles with 50 plus teams.
The damage to pro pool in the past 3 years is astounding. Any potential investors would be fools to risk their money in this game. The pro pool leadership has burnt every backer with blatant arrogance and disregard. When leading promotors are openly abandoning professional pool irrepuable damage has occurred.
The real opporunity in pool is in the advanced amateur ranks. You have to celebrate, respect and pull for a guy in his 70s who still has game, the 20 year old phenom and the working man with a family who can still find time to play like a lion on weekends.
Just came from the Central PA barbox 6th annual toyrnament and I can tell you pool isn't dead, Professional pool may be. They filled a hotel, brought in 27 tables, had over 130 nine ball players and 198 in eight ball, also womes and mixed doubles with 50 plus teams.
The damage to pro pool in the past 3 years is astounding. Any potential investors would be fools to risk their money in this game. The pro pool leadership has burnt every backer with blatant arrogance and disregard. When leading promotors are openly abandoning professional pool irrepuable damage has occurred.
The real opporunity in pool is in the advanced amateur ranks. You have to celebrate, respect and pull for a guy in his 70s who still has game, the 20 year old phenom and the working man with a family who can still find time to play like a lion on weekends.
You have to celebrate, respect and pull for a guy in his 70s who still has game, the 20 year old phenom and the working man with a family who can still find time to play like a lion on weekends
Real sporting hero's who sweat and toil, for what they pursue :thumbup:
Leave the bad to be bad. Celebrate and promote the good :thumbup:
Pool doesn't need to hang its hat on broadcast tv.
Television is changing quickly, with services such as Chrome, etc. making it simpler to get content off of the internet.
Pool might have a BIG AZZ opportunity staring it right in the face here, being able to get in and take advantage of the new stuff, instead of hoping that the old-style folks will allow us on their channels and buy ad time.
TAR and all the rest are the future of pool, imho. The details of how it will go down just haven't materialized yet.
Jeff Livingston
Television is changing quickly, with services such as Chrome, etc. making it simpler to get content off of the internet.
Pool might have a BIG AZZ opportunity staring it right in the face here, being able to get in and take advantage of the new stuff, instead of hoping that the old-style folks will allow us on their channels and buy ad time.
TAR and all the rest are the future of pool, imho. The details of how it will go down just haven't materialized yet.
Jeff Livingston
New Idea!!!
A new idea!!!
I would subscribe to a Billiard Channel on AZB!!!
I do not want to hurt the current streamers but play monopoly with the content! You want to see pro pool then you subscribe! Just like people subscribe to HBO and Showtime for access to the content!. Money from the subscriptions goes to creating content! Last I looked AZB has 45,000 members and 1,500 signed on just today! Getting 15,000 members to subscribe for the same $9.99 a month they pay HBO should not be unreasonable to get and represents a 1/3 or 33% of members! My math says that is $150,000 a month for EXCLUSIVE events and content!
AZB has the billiard INDUSTRY advertising on its sight almost exclusively. Use the leverage to garner some cooperation from the industry for the channel as it will be mutually beneficial to funnel traffic to the sight! My cross marketing idea is to have BCA pool league use its advertising and trophy budget towards subscription memberships as prizes and incentives for signing up new members!
All this talk about TV got me thinking along these lines. Anyway, I am not the owner of AZB and can only make suggestions.
The current streamers could be subcontractors for this venture as they have the infrastructure and equipment. A partnership within the industry would be great if these two groups could work it out. Then focus on creating the EXCLUSIVE content. Pool Rooms could get some kind of special deal for hanging an AZBilliards TV banner in their pool room and get some kind of access to the end of year finals.
I believe in strength in numbers approach to this as John Barton said APA was built slowly and grew to one of the biggest companies in billiards.
There are only 3 promoters left and they all work with AZB. They too could be incorporated into this venture by holding events like they always have done!
The players are the problem as expenses are the BIG problem traveling. The TAR arena could be utilized almost exclusively! Keeps cost down and minimizes tear down and set up. Only thing is keeping the PLAYERS in line and under some kind of contract.
They would venture out for Derby, Turningstone, Expo & US Open in VA!!!
This is just a SUGGESTION and a start. It was written to be built upon by others. So, lets hear some thoughts!!! What should be added what should be taken way? Why this is a bad idea? Etc!
KD
A new idea!!!
I would subscribe to a Billiard Channel on AZB!!!
I do not want to hurt the current streamers but play monopoly with the content! You want to see pro pool then you subscribe! Just like people subscribe to HBO and Showtime for access to the content!. Money from the subscriptions goes to creating content! Last I looked AZB has 45,000 members and 1,500 signed on just today! Getting 15,000 members to subscribe for the same $9.99 a month they pay HBO should not be unreasonable to get and represents a 1/3 or 33% of members! My math says that is $150,000 a month for EXCLUSIVE events and content!
AZB has the billiard INDUSTRY advertising on its sight almost exclusively. Use the leverage to garner some cooperation from the industry for the channel as it will be mutually beneficial to funnel traffic to the sight! My cross marketing idea is to have BCA pool league use its advertising and trophy budget towards subscription memberships as prizes and incentives for signing up new members!
All this talk about TV got me thinking along these lines. Anyway, I am not the owner of AZB and can only make suggestions.
The current streamers could be subcontractors for this venture as they have the infrastructure and equipment. A partnership within the industry would be great if these two groups could work it out. Then focus on creating the EXCLUSIVE content. Pool Rooms could get some kind of special deal for hanging an AZBilliards TV banner in their pool room and get some kind of access to the end of year finals.
I believe in strength in numbers approach to this as John Barton said APA was built slowly and grew to one of the biggest companies in billiards.
There are only 3 promoters left and they all work with AZB. They too could be incorporated into this venture by holding events like they always have done!
The players are the problem as expenses are the BIG problem traveling. The TAR arena could be utilized almost exclusively! Keeps cost down and minimizes tear down and set up. Only thing is keeping the PLAYERS in line and under some kind of contract.
They would venture out for Derby, Turningstone, Expo & US Open in VA!!!
This is just a SUGGESTION and a start. It was written to be built upon by others. So, lets hear some thoughts!!! What should be added what should be taken way? Why this is a bad idea? Etc!
KD
The Center is where the power is.
KidDynomite,
I agree with the jist of your post. The center of activity is where the power is. If the folks here on Az were to capitalize on the fact that they could provide a service for a fee and then return it to the sport there are a lot of choices to be made.
Do you support Professional Pool? and how would you do that? I see a hundred things that could be done and quite honestly they would be in the drivers seat to make sure things were done right and that people acted right or don't come.
But.....Pro Pool is a losing venture as evidenced by the exodus of events and promoters so its a zero sum game as many suggest and that would need to change or any effort is meaningless and just prolongs the agony of sure death anyway.
I would hope that if the sport is going through a rebirth that careful steps are taken to ensure grassroots efforts to expose pool to the general public and for as cheap as possible and have it grounded into business ventures that are self supporting such as helping put bar boxes anywhere there is room for them and make it cheap to play. Nothing says pool more than an available table that is begging to be used.
A good friend I met here on Az who was on the BCA board a long time ago and active in pool in Europe told me about the billiard club concept in Europe and I think that's wonderful but Im sure that didn't happen overnight but if you look at the results over there from that then perhaps we start somewhere and make that a goal for a generation down the road.
I think the jist of your post has an overriding idea. I just hope that it can be considered and come to fruition. Az is a powerhouse in the world of pool and in my mind it might be the place that we look to in order to reorganize the sport but I don't think they would have the power to save pro pool but they might have the power to help pool find a grassroots it desperately need to move ahead. The power of pool is in the amateurs that buy merchandise and that is what moves the industry.
KidDynomite,
I agree with the jist of your post. The center of activity is where the power is. If the folks here on Az were to capitalize on the fact that they could provide a service for a fee and then return it to the sport there are a lot of choices to be made.
Do you support Professional Pool? and how would you do that? I see a hundred things that could be done and quite honestly they would be in the drivers seat to make sure things were done right and that people acted right or don't come.
But.....Pro Pool is a losing venture as evidenced by the exodus of events and promoters so its a zero sum game as many suggest and that would need to change or any effort is meaningless and just prolongs the agony of sure death anyway.
I would hope that if the sport is going through a rebirth that careful steps are taken to ensure grassroots efforts to expose pool to the general public and for as cheap as possible and have it grounded into business ventures that are self supporting such as helping put bar boxes anywhere there is room for them and make it cheap to play. Nothing says pool more than an available table that is begging to be used.
A good friend I met here on Az who was on the BCA board a long time ago and active in pool in Europe told me about the billiard club concept in Europe and I think that's wonderful but Im sure that didn't happen overnight but if you look at the results over there from that then perhaps we start somewhere and make that a goal for a generation down the road.
I think the jist of your post has an overriding idea. I just hope that it can be considered and come to fruition. Az is a powerhouse in the world of pool and in my mind it might be the place that we look to in order to reorganize the sport but I don't think they would have the power to save pro pool but they might have the power to help pool find a grassroots it desperately need to move ahead. The power of pool is in the amateurs that buy merchandise and that is what moves the industry.
That's awesome and encouraging news! Pro pool may be suffering but this is a good indication that there's some grassroots momentum.
Grassroots
I agree, I would like to see something done about tournament formats. I think that the double elimination format takes something away from pool. I just don't get real excited to go play it but that's just me. I would like to know that for my money I was going to get a real pool day regardless of my skill level. I think people demand a value for their money more these days and I think this is something that needs to be addressed even if it means somewhat smaller tournament turnouts. I like to think quality vs. quantity.
I agree, I would like to see something done about tournament formats. I think that the double elimination format takes something away from pool. I just don't get real excited to go play it but that's just me. I would like to know that for my money I was going to get a real pool day regardless of my skill level. I think people demand a value for their money more these days and I think this is something that needs to be addressed even if it means somewhat smaller tournament turnouts. I like to think quality vs. quantity.