Article by Badi Nazhat

Paul Schofield said:
This open letter is offensive. I am surprised at all the "piling on" posted in response. This letter speaks more about the author than the status of pocket billiards. We all learn about ourselves in our lowest and most trying moments. It is at these moments that true passion, character, and leadership emerge. This gentleman very eloquently narrated his exit. I get it. "I don't like the way all of you play. I am picking up my toys and leaving. I am not coming back until I like what I see".

He advocates unity behind a monarchy. This is not the American way. The turmoil in our sport is rooted in declining popularity. Right now, nothing is working. Competing ideas, competing concepts, and competing organizations is how our system rolls. Freedom to choose pulls the best out of our innovators. If and when a concept proves overwhelmingly successful, the entire industry will quickly fall in line behind it.
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I know where you are coming from, but whether you see things Badi's way or not, he has added value for the pool community in the same way that an employee that resigns from a company often gives an "exit interview." The feedback obtained can sometimes offer some insights into both major and minor causes for the choice to resign, and can be very valuable to management.
 
Barry Hearn understands this and snooker flourished from TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
This is what we see coming and it's actually exciting, it's tough for me to watch the Game and it's participants struggle and suffer with no foreseeable change. Change is good, however, it takes one important quality - Willingness......willingness to believe it can happen....then belief that it will happen, then faith that it will continue to happen.

'The Game is the Teacher'
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JoeyA said:
Isn't this exactly what Bonus Ball has presented to the professional pool players?

JoeyA
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Not really, they presented something different which is a step in the right direction, but they didn't have some of the key elements covered. imho

I played the "devil's advocated" with Larry and he became very uncomfortable. The main thing that businesses need is a plan that includes projections of revenue and specific profit centers (you have to know where the money will come from first and foremost).....Bonus Ball didn't have these tools, so they were relying on good luck.....or "blind faith".......without a track record of some significance "blind faith" will not be sufficient for business development...."winging it" with blind faith is like trying to stir the ingredients together, put them in the oven and expecting to pull out a cake....this rarely (if ever) happens.


Success involves momentum, and Bonus Ball had spurts of momentum, but it wasn't directed in a systematic way..... to reach a general audience (like they were attempting) TV is mandatory. Bonus Ball could still work, but would take someone like Barry Hearn to have the experience, capital and connections....who knows, maybe......

WIth TV Bonus Ball has a chance to succeed - without TV Bonus Ball has no legitimate chance, in my opinion.....and this goes for any pocket billiard game. The market for pool has dwindled because there's no system to draw in new participants.....this is a starving process and at some point things start to die.

Barry Hearn understands this and snooker flourished from TV continuity fueled by solid character development, a comprehensive business plan, and a well executed marketing and advertising strategy. They made the players stars, then created a gambling component....this is the ideal formula and one that's worked for many other sports.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Barry Hearn understands this and snooker flourished from TV continuity fueled by solid character development, a comprehensive business plan, and a well executed marketing and advertising strategy. They made the players stars, then created a gambling component....this is the ideal formula and one that's worked for many other sports.
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I haven't been following every post here...is this the grand plan?
Making the Players Stars? Instituting a Gambling Component?
 
Paul Schofield said:
He advocates unity behind a monarchy. This is not the American way. The turmoil in our sport is rooted in declining popularity. Right now, nothing is working. Competing ideas, competing concepts, and competing organizations is how our system rolls. Freedom to choose pulls the best out of our innovators. If and when a concept proves overwhelmingly successful, the entire industry will quickly fall in line behind it.
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Paul,
I think you are right. I see several things in pool that need to change based on the fact that people want a value for their money and their time. Doing the same old things over and over again because it worked 20 yrs ago doesn't necessarily lend towards a solution.

Ive been trying to find something that worked myself.

Well when you have to have venues add a ton of money to tournament to get players to play...even amateurs and semi pro events......that doesn't work for room owners. So tours bounce from room to room and eventually start running out of places to have events.

It seems the added money is more a concern than the game itself which tells me that we aren't offering enough Pool and Fun at tournaments. Going 2 and Out for $50 is a waste of the recreational players time. They could have 2 nights of solid pool for $50 dollars.

I think that if we focus on giving people a value for their money that would help things and maybe we might find something that begins to work.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Not really, they presented something different which is a step in the right direction, but they didn't have some of the key elements covered. imho

I played the "devil's advocated" with Larry and he became very uncomfortable. The main thing that businesses need is a plan that includes projections of revenue and specific profit centers (you have to know where the money will come from first and foremost).....Bonus Ball didn't have these tools, so they were relying on good luck.....or "blind faith".......without a track record of some significance "blind faith" will not be sufficient for business development...."winging it" with blind faith is like trying to stir the ingredients together, put them in the oven and expecting to pull out a cake....this rarely (if ever) happens.


Success involves momentum, and Bonus Ball had spurts of momentum, but it wasn't directed in a systematic way..... to reach a general audience (like they were attempting) TV is mandatory. Bonus Ball could still work, but would take someone like Barry Hearn to have the experience, capital and connections....who knows, maybe......

WIth TV Bonus Ball has a chance to succeed - without TV Bonus Ball has no legitimate chance, in my opinion.....and this goes for any pocket billiard game. The market for pool has dwindled because there's no system to draw in new participants.....this is a starving process and at some point things start to die.

Barry Hearn understands this and snooker flourished from TV continuity fueled by solid character development, a comprehensive business plan, and a well executed marketing and advertising strategy. They made the players stars, then created a gambling component....this is the ideal formula and one that's worked for many other sports.
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This is a great post.
 
justadub said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella Don't Cry

Here's a joke for any muso's out there.
Where does a drummer keep his drum kit..?
AT HIS GIRLFRIENDS!

What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians? A drummer.

<------plays drums, can take it
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what's the difference between a drummer and a savings bond? one of them will eventually mature and make money.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android
 
Originally Posted by Bella Don't Cry View Post
Here's a joke for any muso's out there.
Where does a drummer keep his drum kit..?
AT HIS GIRLFRIENDS!
What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians? A drummer.

<------plays drums, can take it

I was with a tour party in the jungle and the sound of drums could be heard. The tour guide said "everything is ok as long as the drums keep beating"...
10 mins later - the drums stopped beating. The tour guide had a look of horror and turn pale. We were terrified as was the guide. We asked "what's gonna happen now?" upon which the tour guide said " oh, oh. Bass solo!"
------ takes a drummer to know a drummer :thumbup:
 
336Robin said:
Paul,

It seems the added money is more a concern than the game itself

I think that if we focus on giving people a value for their money that would help things and maybe we might find something that begins to work.
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I HERE THAT!
All the top players concern themselves mostly on one factor, how much added money is in an event. This is the root of this open letter and this whole thread.

If the promoter of the Ultimate 10 ball didn't have SO MUCH ADDED MONEY in his event - this wouldn't even be a discussion!
Same website, same venue, NO ADDED MONEY = NO EXPOSURE.
So in fact, the event was a promotional success, because it DIRECTLY HIT its chosen targeted audience.

Next time - just open the net wider...

On ADDED MONEY:
NEW KID walks into a pool hall with a brand new cue and hits a few. The local hotshot see's him and lets him know that there is a tournament next week - $50 entry. The kid turns up and loses twice within 2 hours. He runs into the local hotshot on his way out of the club who asks "how did you get on" - "I lost said the kid" - "oh, better luck next time, said the hotshot... and so it goes on.

Do you think the kid turns up to play in the next even? If yes, where does he get $50 from?
More like, they throw their cue in the corner of the bed room and get on with their PS4 :thumb up:
BRAND NEW PS4 GAME = $50 ish - COST OF GETTING YOUR A$$ HANDED $50
Youth of today maybe foolish - But they ain't STUPID

The whole mentality of ADDED MONEY, ADDED MONEY is what has killed the game for years. Play for fun, play for sport, play for education, play to get better, PLAY THE GAME! It's a contagious game and others WILL want to play also. :thumb up:

This is why bar table is the most popular. This is why pensioners will turn up to Vegas to give it their best shot. This is why the BCAPL promote its amateur champions! BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER VALUE than the pro's...
 
ON A SERIOUS NOTE:

What is our preference, given the current economic reality?

1. x3 (possibly 4) USA Pro events annually with a total ADDED VALUE of $100,000

or

2. ONE 10,000 open event held in every USA state annually?

Go do the Math...

NOTE:
My figures a merely speculation. :thumbup:
 
CJ Wiley said:
If the game's best side would have been shown in 1986, the movie 'The Color of Money' would have had even more impact. There was certainly an opportunity to take the game to a much higher level (but the game was inadvertently diluted), and now there's another chance, it will be interesting to see what happens. 'The Game will be the Teacher'
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Ironically, right after Paul Newman passed away I spoke before the BCA board quarterly meeting in Boulder. Newman was on the agenda. I thought, what a perfect time for our industry to ''ride on the coattails'' of this occurrence. But someone dropped the ball. I heard Nothing about our industry and its tie in's with this great actor and his TWO pool movies, each with great success. Paul mentioned it was the only time in his life where he was able to basically apply his trade twice within the same type of movie, he said he did a much better job the second time, proof. He won an Academy award for ColorOfMoney. The BCA did nothing that I know of to exploit this occurrence, similar to the PBT and Sigel/Allison Fisher $250,000 debacle, instead it was Lori J. Jones/Sigel, LJJ needed allot of weight in this spot.
Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs sure worked/Tennis.
 
I hope so.... Poker wouldn't have ever made it to TV without the gambling asset. People get excited about the money, even $20 nine ball draws railbirds.

Poker players seem to have more cash in their pockets & are ready to plunk it down for a possible reward. Pool players are a bit strapped right now & any big money games I've seen are played out with someone else's money at stake.

Maybe gambling would help... it certainly helped poker, where a bunch of our players went. We all have ideas, we all have opinions, maybe a collection of these ideas & opinions will someday become the magic potion.
 
Gambling Component/Participation

ceebee said:
I hope so.... Poker wouldn't have ever made it to TV without the gambling asset. People get excited about the money, even $20 nine ball draws railbirds.

Poker players seem to have more cash in their pockets & are ready to plunk it down for a possible reward. Pool players are a bit strapped right now & any big money games I've seen are played out with someone else's money at stake.

Maybe gambling would help... it certainly helped poker, where a bunch of our players went. We all have ideas, we all have opinions, maybe a collection of these ideas & opinions will someday become the magic potion.
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I remember some of the reality shows they let callers call in to a number to register their support for the actors. If it cost them a lot of money they likely wouldn't but if it were a free thing people might call and odds given and it would create excitement of a kind...its a thought.....give them votes on tv... lol
 
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post

If the game's best side would have been shown in 1986, the movie 'The Color of Money' would have had even more impact. There was certainly an opportunity to take the game to a much higher level (but the game was inadvertently diluted), and now there's another chance, it will be interesting to see what happens. 'The Game will be the Teacher'

Possibly?
What would have been better was for the whole industry to use the film as a platform to get its $H!T together.
 
Bella Don't Cry said:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post

If the game's best side would have been shown in 1986, the movie 'The Color of Money' would have had even more impact. There was certainly an opportunity to take the game to a much higher level (but the game was inadvertently diluted), and now there's another chance, it will be interesting to see what happens. 'The Game will be the Teacher'

Possibly?
What would have been better was for the whole industry to use the film as a platform to get its $H!T together.
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Yeah that's a hindsight is 2020 statement but I don't think anyone anticipated the loss in players weve experienced. The way things are now. Its going to take some grassroots to make it grow sure enough and its going to take awhile to do it. I think we are at a point where doing anything like the same ol thing is just wasted time and money.
 
336Robin said:
Yeah that's a hindsight is 2020 statement but I don't think anyone anticipated the loss in players weve experienced. The way things are now. Its going to take some grassroots to make it grow sure enough and its going to take awhile to do it. I think we are at a point where doing anything like the same ol thing is just wasted time and money.
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I don't think its hindsight.
I believe it to be the arrogance of the industry of the time that sat back, watched and hoped for the $$$ to roll in off the back of a Hollywood production.

I agree with 'the grassroots' section you wrote tho and I have previously gone into this in much more depth in this thread... :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Collective Consciousness

Bella Don't Cry said:
I don't think its hindsight.
I believe it to be the arrogance of the industry of the time that sat back, watched and hoped for the $$$ to roll in off the back of a Hollywood production.

I agree with 'the grassroots' section you wrote tho and I have previously gone into this in much more depth in this thread... :thumbup::thumbup:
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People, things and situations cause a Collective Consciousness to occur. Simply thinking positive is wonderful but at a point someone has to do something and in order for that to happen they have to have a vested interest.

We know that the BCA moved into the Industry Member Business and that didn't help thing. I have to wonder at what point the Industry Members get concerned enough to band together in order to do something about it. Relatively speaking the members of this website might actually represent a minority of pool players worldwide and if there is enough business coming into Industry Members without them having to worry about the Pool and Billiard Wholesale Industry I suspect you will hear nothing from them.

So we can think positive thoughts and wish it to be so and maybe someone with that vested interest will step up and offer some type of plan to bring new players into the game through an advertising campaign of some sort. Life is only so long, so people may indeed just not think its worth it in the long run for their self interests.

I can think positive thoughts and hope someone comes with something, thats free. If we wait long enough it might fix itself, that seems to be the attitude of the industry because several I have talked to think its more economy related than anything else as far as the problems that have a plausible fix.

What would be awesome is for the Industry Members to band together and put together some sort of plan that didn't cost a lot and would allow people to help through memberships etc. I think they have the vested interest required to do so.
 
336Robin said:
What would be awesome is for the Industry Members to band together and put together some sort of plan that didn't cost a lot and would allow people to help through memberships etc. I think they have the vested interest required to do so.
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I agree also.
Vested interest doesn't mean that it needs to be an invested interest (although investment helps) and possibly the industry leaders can and will realise this.
 
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