Article by Badi Nazhat

jburkm002 said:
Might I suggest taking the tennis approach. Seeding players by rankings. What any TV or sponsor would want is top players in the finals. If it's about money for players and longevity in the sport. Let's say SVB is the top American player and the face of pro pool. That's who sponsors would want to see in the finals. Not two more players no one has ever heard of. You don't think sponsor love it when Sampras and Aggasi were in the finals.

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I understand your point. But, seeding has never been done fairly. It is a tool used to try and protect income for those guys whose livelihood is relying on the sport for their living! The weekend warriors that hold down a job and realize pool can't adequately provide, Should not be disadvantaged to through a stupid pool player a bone. They make bad choices in life then they suffer! The charity syndrome in the sport can't be done except at the expense of another combatant!

Kd

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jburkm002 said:
Might I suggest taking the tennis approach. Seeding players by rankings. What any TV or sponsor would want is top players in the finals. If it's about money for players and longevity in the sport. Let's say SVB is the top American player and the face of pro pool. That's who sponsors would want to see in the finals. Not two more players no one has ever heard of. You don't think sponsor love it when Sampras and Aggasi were in the finals.

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Seeding based on which ranking? None of them have enough events to qualify as rankings.

The best way to get something together that can please the sponsors in the long run is, indeed, to create icons/heroes. That can be achieved by having the same players over and over on TV, that's how it has worked for many other sports.

Invitationals can guarantee this, which is why it is one of the roads explored by many promoters (Matt Braun, Matchroom, and currently Mark Griffin is thinking about it).
 
jpparmentier said:
Seeding based on which ranking? None of them have enough events to qualify as rankings.

The best way to get something together that can please the sponsors in the long run is, indeed, to create icons/heroes. That can be achieved by having the same players over and over on TV, that's how it has worked for many other sports.

Invitationals can guarantee this, which is why it is one of the roads explored by many promoters (Matt Braun, Matchroom, and currently Mark Griffin is thinking about it).
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I understand your thoughts, but there is so little pool on TV in America that creating the pool icons/heroes would be hard to accomplish.

I do agree with this approach, however, but the only folks who would recognize them is people like us on this forum. How are you going to get my Uncle Chester and Aunt Dorothy to want to watch Efren Reyes or Johnnny Archer or Thorsten Hohmann?

All three of these players are strong in their own right, of course, but watching them isn't as exciting for the non-pool-playing viewer as it is for people like us.

I guess what I am trying to say is that making pool exciting is a tough hurdle to overcome, even when the best of the best are playing.
 
JAM said:
I understand your thoughts, but there is so little pool on TV in America that creating the pool icons/heroes would be hard to accomplish.

I do agree with this approach, however, but the only folks who would recognize them is people like us on this forum. How are you going to get my Uncle Chester and Aunt Dorothy to want to watch Efren Reyes or Johnnny Archer or Thorsten Hohmann?

All three of these players are strong in their own right, of course, but watching them isn't as exciting for the non-pool-playing viewer as it is for people like us.

I guess what I am trying to say is that making pool exciting is a tough hurdle to overcome, even when the best of the best are playing.
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If pool were produce like golf with several announcers and cameras at several tables and they switched back and forth at different points in the game including a little bantering and gamesmanship between players it could be far more interesting than just watching a match throughout
Obviously this would take a lot of money and organization but it might work


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one stroke said:
If pool were produce like golf with several announcers and cameras at several tables and they switched back and forth at different points in the game including a little bantering and gamesmanship between players it could be far more interesting than just watching a match throughout
Obviously this would take a lot of money and organization but it might work


1
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Not really, but the boiler plate programming (thats as creative as watching paint dry, but keeps production costs waaaaaaaay down) that networks create is as different as night and day when you compare it to Matchroom Sports/Barry Hearn....Mosconi Cup business model. The women had their chance and kept at samo/samo with some helpful changes, but kept Many things exactly the same especially their commentators. The huge advantage they had was they are women and corporations are usually owned and run by men. Even doctor House on TV once commented about old men in the hospital watching young women pros bending over the table for their stimulation during bed rest.
 
It would seem that the majority on here will not relenquish the concept of having a televised pro tour IN THE USA. After all this is the dream and there isn't anything wrong with a dream.
I HAVE A DREAM TOO :thumbup:

TV PRO TOUR:
Many on this forum (including industry leaders) may want to see the directive of invitational tournaments, which we all hope will be televised. GREAT!

TV - indeed want to see the greatest players (of any sport / game) on the planet grace their networks with avid fans paying $$$ to watch them. GREAT!

Here lies ONE of Pro Pools issues to consider to televise its tournaments.

1. Elite 16 players. After season 1 - who gets relegated? Who gets promoted?
In other words, how do you get fresh blood into an 'Invitational' event?
YES - the promoter can hand pick his / hers elite 16 - but this (their view) DOES NOT reflect the professional game. Consider the Mosconi Cup; great tournament, great production, great coverage, great live event. IT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE A YEAR!!!!!!!

TV consumers WIL GET BORED - once they realise that THE ELITE, is on the TV because he / she is GOOG FRIENDS with the promoter

TV shows of any kind need a foundation; a base that it sits on.

THIS IS THE KEY ISSUE WITH ANY PROPOSED PRO POOL TV SHOW....

NO FOUNDATION.
I can't guarantee - but I should anticipate that such a show would run for NO MORE that 3 years at best.

COME ON BOYS - THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE.
TIME FOR A CD CHANGE :thumbup:
 
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:
Bella Don't Cry said:
It would seem that the majority on here will not relenquish the concept of having a televised pro tour IN THE USA. After all this is the dream and there isn't anything wrong with a dream.
I HAVE A DREAM TOO :thumbup:

TV PRO TOUR:
Many on this forum (including industry leaders) may want to see the directive of invitational tournaments, which we all hope will be televised. GREAT!

TV - indeed want to see the greatest players (of any sport / game) on the planet grace their networks with avid fans paying $$$ to watch them. GREAT!

Here lies ONE of Pro Pools issues to consider to televise its tournaments.

1. Elite 16 players. After season 1 - who gets relegated? Who gets promoted?
In other words, how do you get fresh blood into an 'Invitational' event?
YES - the promoter can hand pick his / hers elite 16 - but this (their view) DOES NOT reflect the professional game. Consider the Mosconi Cup; great tournament, great production, great coverage, great live event. IT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE A YEAR!!!!!!!

TV consumers WIL GET BORED - once they realise that THE ELITE, is on the TV because he / she is GOOG FRIENDS with the promoter

TV shows of any kind need a foundation; a base that it sits on.

THIS IS THE KEY ISSUE WITH ANY PROPOSED PRO POOL TV SHOW....

NO FOUNDATION.
I can't guarantee - but I should anticipate that such a show would run for NO MORE that 3 years at best.

COME ON BOYS - THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE.
TIME FOR A CD CHANGE :thumbup:
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:deadhorse::deadhorse:Ironically, our industry has SUCH a PROLIFIC failure model, you'd think the obvious, just remove all of that, and build a model without all of that.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
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Island Drive said:
Not really, but the boiler plate programming (thats as creative as watching paint dry, but keeps production costs waaaaaaaay down) that networks create is as different as night and day when you compare it to Matchroom Sports/Barry Hearn....Mosconi Cup business model. The women had their chance and kept at samo/samo with some helpful changes, but kept Many things exactly the same especially their commentators. The huge advantage they had was they are women and corporations are usually owned and run by men. Even doctor House on TV once commented about old men in the hospital watching young women pros bending over the table for their stimulation during bed rest.
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Sorry but if your comparing it to pool as its been shown its a rocket ship
Golf knows this and that's why they bounce around the course if they were just watching one group they would have been off the air decades ago ,, people want to see great shots watching one match might produce a couple watching several matches produces many
It's also the theory behind NFL RedZone that's produced millions in revenue
Not that I believe pool will but its much better than what being seen now and in the past
Yes the woman sparked some interest but that was only temporary


1
 
When I read these kinds of topics about pool today, to include the pro player disappointment topics, I can't help but think of this song ---> HERE
 
Deja Vu

JAM said:
When I read these kinds of topics about pool today, to include the pro player disappointment topics, I can't help but think of this song ---> HERE
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I ain't crying....I'm LOL too much at our past as compared to NOW.
 
klone said:
Great article on the reality of pro pool indeed.

But pool itself need not professionals to survive. It needs players. It needs fathers, sons, college buddies, coworkers, college students, etc. No pro pool? Well, that just means less tournaments to attend and less YouTube videos to enjoy. But for those who love the sport of smacking spheres, any night at the local pool room is a clash of titans, and good times spent with those who share a similar passion.

Pool just needs a grassroots movement. Support your local pool rooms, local tournaments, and leagues. Teach your sons and daughters about it. Suggest it as an outing to coworkers and friends. Hold company events at a pool room. Partner with a pool room to hold kids summer camps or other junior programs.

I love watching the pros play and a few are my idols. But I love pool more.
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Good points.

Little ol' Des Moines now has 12 different leagues, at my last count. 12. That's a lot of pool being played by a lot of players.

There is a lot of potential fuel for the industry of pool there and it sits in the can awaiting an engine to use it for power. Gas ought not to sit in cans for long.

How could there be 12 leagues with no one entity to organize that? THAT is part of the answer, imho. Waiting for "unity" is an excuse. In the 30 years I've been playing leagues, not ONCE has there been a flyer, for example, that tried to market professional pool to us. Nothing at all in 30 years that would direct me to the pro game or any other part of pool but my little league and its tournaments. Dead end.

The recent state tournament has thousands of players and NOT ONE mention of any other pool products outside of cues and shirts, etc.. No promotions for pro tournaments, nothing. Ask any league player who, for example, Strickland is and you'll get a blank stare. The potential of league players being marketed to is huge...but there it is filling up a gas can that no one apparently wants to use to power any pool engine.

Whoever said "more promotion" is right on! Ideas are a dime a dozen; marketing is taking an idea and turning it into a product that others will gladly pay to have. THAT is where the value is and where the answers lie.

The opinion of a simple, long-time league player who loves to play pool.

Jeff Livingston
 
Come again?

Are you telling me the BCA spent $23,000 on two print ads.... How long did they run?
:'(
JG

Island Drive said:
As for the first paragraph, I had direct in/office involvement with the BCA All American Tour, my annual budget was $46,000. I figured a way to cut that in half, and develop a feeder/player/rating system for those trying to get to the next level and most importantly ''increase play'' and increase BCA room membership as a prequalification process. Ironically half of that money went to full page color ads in two different Billiard Magazines to let the industry and players know of the up/coming events. If one looks at who was on the board at the time, it becomes Very clear Why. I wanted to Guarantee $1,000 added events to BCA host room members that got on board. All the room members had to do was show they did local advertising of there up and coming event, and prove that it had done its job in paying out their players. Quote "oh no, we can't do that''. There was a Huge conflict of interest when one realizes WHY.
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JuicyGirl said:
Come again?

Are you telling me the BCA spent $23,000 on two print ads.... How long did they run?
:'(
JG
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It's been over ten yrs now, but they ran two Full page color ads I think every two or three months in TWO different mags, you could pick up the old issues of the Major publications to get your answer, but my way would of increased ROOM MEMBERSHIP and player MEMBERSHIP. I sold my whole 30 yr collection of billiard mags (4 different publications) 10+ yrs ago. Look during the early 2000's they were High Quality.
 
Island Drive said:
It's been over ten yrs now, but they ran two Full page color ads I think every two or three months in TWO different mags, you could pick up the old issues of the Major publications to get your answer, but my way would of increased ROOM MEMBERSHIP and player MEMBERSHIP. I sold my whole 30 yr collection of billiard mags (4 different publications) 10+ yrs ago. Look during the early 2000's they were High Quality.
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I've got quite a few that I have accumulated over the years. If you know a date range, I can see if I can locate one, if I have it. I can do a scan and post it up in this thread.
 
OK. Pro pool is on ESPN every week at the same time. You have no way to record. It's Friday and you have been following the tournament and know who will be in the finals. What would determine whether you watch the finals or not? Would you watch the finals no matter what because you love watching pool? Would you watch if at least one of the two players was someone you like watching? Would you watch if it was two players you never heard of? Would it matter if there was a shot clock? There are players know for slow play and it might turn viewers away. Would you watch no matter who was in the finals and if not? WHY?
 
Advertising and Exposure

Just my personal opinion but Advertising and Exposure are separate issues. I would think the best advertising that could be done for Pool would be the advertising that reaches the masses, the general public.

There might be someone out there who might not have considered playing pool and without something to jog their minds they might not ever.

Got Milk?

Come watch the unemployable raving lunatics Play Pool and argue over the venue and ***** about the tables and the money and wonder why promoters don't kiss their butts and then don't work the crowd of amateurs that come see the event.

There has to be a message sent out and it has to be a positive one. Milk is nice, tastes good going down and a reminder makes you want a glass.

This is not what we as an industry project and likely never will in total but we could at least have some positive advertising and situations where you deal with positive people can be found at local venues if not at the professional level. Since it takes a long time for people to find where the pros are, where they play, maybe just getting them interested in pool is plenty enough. That's my opinion.
 
JAM said:
I've got quite a few that I have accumulated over the years. If you know a date range, I can see if I can locate one, if I have it. I can do a scan and post it up in this thread.
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When they moved from IA to CO, early 2000.
 
Beyond skill level. How is a pro any different then an amateur playing in a amateur tournament? That's not sarcasm. Both pay and entry fee and get paid according to how they finished. What was different for ALL the pro's when they were on TV apposed to now?
 
Island Drive said:
When they moved from IA to CO, early 2000.
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I will be working on pool-related writing this weekend, so I'm going to go on the hunt for these ads. I need to have my pool library in chronological order. It's something I have been wanting to do for a long time, but I just haven't had the time to do it. This is a task, however, I will be conquering this month for sure. I'm on a mission. :)
 
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