Article by Badi Nazhat

[Bigtruck]

CJ has a lot of good ideas for promoting and marketing. TV is the answer. The internet will never get us there. I look forward to seeing his plan in action.

Jerry is correct. It's really tough trying to get the news media involved. When we had 8 Pro's do a charity fund raiser in Texas for St Jude's I contacted the local Newspapers and TV stations. One TV reporter did show up but they never aired anything that I know of.

I think the promoter who is currently involved in pool that has the best chance of turning things around is Mark Griffin. He is effectively involved in pool from kids to Pros.

The thing that I believe keeps pool from gaining any traction is we have people who will throw a little money at something then try to take it over for their own personal agendas. Those agendas are often less than noble. These people work diligently to divide the industry into fractions. " I will support you if you don't support so and so" or " I will support you if you use this person" or " I would get involved but not if so and so is involved". These person(s) and/or groups poison attitudes from top to bottom resulting in a divided market where no one can ever reach any substantial success.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." ~Harry S Truman (1884-1972)

Ray

 

[Island Drive]

And why aren't they? They should be at least as responsible as anyone else for making any event a success, especially when it effects their livelihood more than anyone else's. Promoters might be "in charge" of marketing, advertising and setting up, but they can't successfully sell something that is unsellable.

Currently, the pros do not have a marketable product; which I think is the biggest reason sponsors are walking away. I also think that's the point Badi Nazhat was trying to make.

Roger

Rog, some people just don't understand why kids at Pro Tennis events, ask the players to sign their GIANT tennis ball....Hell when Fats showed up, he would interact and maybe....Maybe....MAYBE, run three balls in a half hour. Keith could work a crowd the same way, it's perfect, you don't even Have to draw your ball, just shoot off your character.:grin-square:

 

[Island Drive]

CJ has a lot of good ideas for promoting and marketing. TV is the answer. The internet will never get us there. I look forward to seeing his plan in action.

Jerry is correct. It's really tough trying to get the news media involved. When we had 8 Pro's do a charity fund raiser in Texas for St Jude's I contacted the local Newspapers and TV stations. One TV reporter did show up but they never aired anything that I know of.

I think the promoter who is currently involved in pool that has the best chance of turning things around is Mark Griffin. He is effectively involved in pool from kids to Pros.

The thing that I believe keeps pool from gaining any traction is we have people who will throw a little money at something then try to take it over for their own personal agendas. Those agendas are often less than noble. These people work diligently to divide the industry into fractions. " I will support you if you don't support so and so" or " I will support you if you use this person" or " I would get involved but not if so and so is involved". These person(s) and/or groups poison attitudes from top to bottom resulting in a divided market where no one can ever reach any substantial success.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." ~Harry S Truman (1884-1972)

Ray

Fat's was asked once, how he got so smart, his response was that he learned everything from imbeciles by doing ''exactly the opposite'. If many players took this mans words to heart, it would be an Amazing beginning. If you have ever owned you own business, these works are drilled into your head after a business failure or success.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Marketing and advertising people generally can't play pool either.

And why aren't they? They should be at least as responsible as anyone else for making any event a success, especially when it effects their livelihood more than anyone else's. Promoters might be "in charge" of marketing, advertising and setting up, but they can't successfully sell something that is unsellable.

Currently, the pros do not have a marketable product; which I think is the biggest reason sponsors are walking away. I also think that's the point Badi Nazhat was trying to make.

Roger

They are professional pool players, not professional marketers, advertisers or promoters. There's a difference, these professions take entirely different "skill sets".

Marketing and advertising people generally can't play pool either. The people that promote and advertise football, basketball, and hockey probably don't play those games, they stick to what they're hired to do.....and do it to the best of their ability.

 

[jburkm002]

How do pro's make money outside of a tournament? Can't imagine many of these guys are living off $10,000 or less a year. They must have other means of revenue. There are those that strive to do better in life and then there are those who except what life offers them. Not much different than most regular folks.

 

[jburkm002]

Does anyone know what the largest contract/endorsement deal a pro player has ever had?

 

[CJ Wiley]

I come from a group of professional pool players that did promote the game

I get the point Roger is making here.
If all the pros at least took themselves (the individual) seriously as a product to be sold, then the pro's themselves would have indirectly promoted the event on behalf of themselves - the product and the promoter.
E.G. - top pro get's local newspaper exposure because he / she is competing in a world event!
The thing with this is that it takes the pro out of their comfort zone in order to learn new skills - but that's the teacher :thumbup:[/QUOTE]

I come from a group of professional pool players that DO promote the game - millions of people in Magazines and on TV. I have no idea what the Pros do these days, all I know is there's a group of us getting ready to do some very aggressive advertising and marketing in the coming year.. Here'a an example of one of the promotions I did for Good Morning Texas. CLICK HERE

 

[justadub]

They are professional pool players, not professional marketers, advertisers or promoters. There's a difference, these professions take entirely different "skill sets".

Marketing and advertising people generally can't play pool either. The people that promote and advertise football, basketball, and hockey probably don't play those games, they stick to what they're hired to do.....and do it to the best of their ability.

You don't have to have any marketing skill set to present yourself in a good light.

 

[CJ Wiley]

interesting......very, very, interesting

You don't have to have any marketing skill set to present yourself in a good light.

interesting......very, very, interesting.

 

[justadub]

interesting......very, very, interesting.

Ok, perhaps presenting one's self favorably is indeed "marketing" at its most basic, I'll give you that.

I maintain you don't need a marketing degree to do that well.

And lets not forget, many of these same top pro's are tournament promoters themselves. Certainly many who wield influence with other pro's....yet the general tone from the top pro's is not what you would expect from a group of industry members who wish to grow their business opportunities.

Better?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Earl is doing a great job promoting himself and the upcoming Mosconi Cup.

Ok, perhaps presenting one's self favorably is indeed "marketing" at its most basic, I'll give you that.

I maintain you don't need a marketing degree to do that well.


Better?

I'm not sure what "Pros" everyone is referring to, Jeanette Lee is the only one that actually makes a living from pool, and I guess Shane, but they do it mostly on outside "special events" and APA sponsorship.

Many of you that are on Facebook know that the pros are starting to really turn up the promotional "volume". Facebook is WAY bigger than azbilliards and we get out to over 70,000 people a week. We figure on az it's around 3-5k a week.

Earl is doing a great job promoting himself and the upcoming Mosconi Cup.

FACE BOOK POST EARLIER TODAY

Earl Strickland
Went undefeated to beat Mike Dechaine 9-8 in the finals- Next, operation Mosconi Cup- Im READY!
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Terry Elrod Congrats Earl....! Now go get the Mosconi Cup...!
22 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Mark Cook What does he shoot with?
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Gordon Welch Go.... and win....!!!
19 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Sean Hoey well done buddy......delighted 4 u.
about a minute ago · Like

 

[justadub]

So now Shane is the only professional pool player here in the US?

 

[CJ Wiley]

.I have a feeling they're secretly wealthy and just play pool for a hobby.

So now Shane is the only professional pool player here in the US?

I guess so, everyone says the others can't make a living so they must not be professional......I have a feeling they're secretly wealthy and just play pool for a hobby.

Just a hunch.....and like Dennis Miller says "I could be wrong"

Looks like Johnny Archer is in the Pool Room / Sports Bar business....maybe they all secretly own other businesses...hmmm.

FACE BOOK - JOHNNY ARCHER's PAGE

I am going down to MBC to practice for the Mosconi Cup. I need some people to beat on. Come on by so we can play some.
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Mikie Seagraves Good Luck Johnny, wish the best sir!!
at 8:57am · Like

Claire Pelletier Come to Ri this weekend for the joss tour. Plenty of people to challenge your ability!!!
at 9:28am via mobile · Like

Jeremy James Hickey Id Just Get Out , YOUR STINGER Might Need Keep Close . Good Luck CHAMP .J.
at 1:58am via mobile · Like

 

[justadub]

It sure seems you want to have it both ways, so there isn't any room for debate, at least on this topic.

I thought there were a whole bunch of "professionals"....enough for an incredibly long list of American Billiard Professionals.

 

[CJ Wiley]

It depends on how you define "professional"

It sure seems you want to have it both ways, so there isn't any room for debate, at least on this topic.

I thought there were a whole bunch of "professionals"....enough for an incredibly long list of American Billiard Professionals.

It depends on how you define "professional" ***......if someone is a professional carpenter, lawyer, doctor, dentist, or construction worker some people would automatically think they make a living doing their chosen "profession"......if they worked in conditions where they just got paid if they pounded nails especially good that week and only had a 25% chance of getting a check others would call that a "professional hobby"...... with some fun benefits.

***
pro·fes·sion·al [pruh-fesh-uh-nl]
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2.
of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

 

[Roger Long]

I guess so, everyone says the others can't make a living so they must not be professional......

CJ, you're the one who keeps saying that professionals can't make a living. I'm saying that no one will know whether the pros can or cannot make a living until they actually do something worthy of earning a living.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being disrespectful to pro players; that's not my intention. I do admire and respect them for their skill, their accomplishments, and their dedication to the game. However, the message that I'd like to get across to them is that mine and everyone else's admiration and respect doesn't pay the bills. The only way that they will ever be able to earn a decent living off of pool is to come up with an entertainment package that the general public (not you and I) will pay to watch. And it is just as much the players' responsibility to help develop that package as it is anybody else's. They can no longer afford to resist change.

Roger

 

[justadub]

It depends on how you define "professional" ***......if someone is a professional carpenter, lawyer, doctor, dentist, or construction worker some people would automatically think they make a living doing their chosen "profession"......if they worked in conditions where they just got paid if they pounded nails especially good that week and only had a 25% chance of getting a check others would call that a "professional hobby"...... with some fun benefits.

***
pro·fes·sion·al [pruh-fesh-uh-nl]
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2.
of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

I believe they perceive themselves to be "professionals". Again I refer you to the long list of American Billiard Professionals. I believe you know a few of them... (Although the one true "profesional", according to you isnt on that list)

So, if one considers ones self to be a "professional", one shouldn't be surprised when others expect that person or persons to act "professionally".

Whether or not they make as much as I do managing a chain retail store, or not.

They are the "pro's" and expect to be treated accordingly. (I believe an argument regarding seeding comes to mind, and another about late fees, just to name a couple off the top of my head.) Cool. Act like one, consistently, and let's see how it goes.

Again, the players aren't responsible for all the problems pro pool faces. They arent blameless, either. It would be nice for you to acknowledge that.

 

[CJ Wiley]

'The Synergistic Effect' is the basis for out research and development.

CJ, you're the one who keeps saying that professionals can't make a living. I'm saying that no one will know whether the pros can or cannot make a living until they actually do something worthy of earning a living.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being disrespectful to pro players; that's not my intention. I do admire and respect them for their skill, their accomplishments, and their dedication to the game. However, the message that I'd like to get across to them is that mine and everyone else's admiration and respect doesn't pay the bills. The only way that they will ever be able to earn a decent living off of pool is to come up with an entertainment package that the general public (not you and I) will pay to watch. And it is just as much the players' responsibility to help develop that package as it is anybody else's. They can no longer afford to resist change.

Roger

We've developed an entertainment package that the general public will watch. This is the reason we've been on this forum using it as a "Think Tank" and matching it with our own "Think Tank"......it took putting these two "powers" together to get the right answer, one without the other simple wasn't enough synergy.

'The Synergistic Effect' is the basis for out research and development.....two becomes four, four becomes sixteen and ten becomes one hundred....the "energy" squares when there's enough common denominators seeking the same goals and outcomes.

I really don't know what "players" you are referring to, we have a core group in mind to start out with and when it's successful we'll add to the payroll. We aren't interested in a tour like's been attempted the last 40 years.....we have something totally different in mind, and the whole attention is on how to hit the "emotional button" of the casual viewer. 'The Game is Our Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Of course people should act "proper" 100% of the time and we all know that's delusion

I believe they perceive themselves to be "professionals". Again I refer you to the long list of Amern Billiard Professionals. I believe you know a few of them... (Although the one true "profesional", according to you isnt on that list)

So, if one considers ones self to be a "professional", one shouldn't be surprised when others expect that person or persons to act "professionally".

Whether or not they make as much as I do managing a chain retail store, or not.

They are the "pro's" and expect to be treated accordingly. (I believe an argument regarding seeding comes to mind, and another about late fees, just to name a couple off the top of my head.) Cool. Act like one, consistently, and let's see how it goes.

Again, the players aren't responsible for all the problems pro pool faces. They arent blameless, either. It would be nice for you to acknowledge that.

Be patient, the end will justify the means.

We have no control over how other people have acted in the past - whether you choose to call them professionals, athletes, or human beings make very little difference. Of course people should act "proper" 100% of the time and we all know that's nothing more than fantasy, and/or delusion.

I make no judgement about what's happened in the past, all I know is we accept where we are right this second....and this gives us a reference point to move forward. We can't right every wrong, nor would we even try, the most important thing is to create a positive model of professional pool that is entertaining and can be used as a marketing vehicle for future brands and businesses. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JCIN]

CJ has a lot of good ideas for promoting and marketing. TV is the answer. The internet will never get us there. I look forward to seeing his plan in action.

Jerry is correct. It's really tough trying to get the news media involved. When we had 8 Pro's do a charity fund raiser in Texas for St Jude's I contacted the local Newspapers and TV stations. One TV reporter did show up but they never aired anything that I know of.

I think the promoter who is currently involved in pool that has the best chance of turning things around is Mark Griffin. He is effectively involved in pool from kids to Pros.

The thing that I believe keeps pool from gaining any traction is we have people who will throw a little money at something then try to take it over for their own personal agendas. Those agendas are often less than noble. These people work diligently to divide the industry into fractions. " I will support you if you don't support so and so" or " I will support you if you use this person" or " I would get involved but not if so and so is involved". These person(s) and/or groups poison attitudes from top to bottom resulting in a divided market where no one can ever reach any substantial success.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." ~Harry S Truman (1884-1972)

Ray

The industry is fractured because its filled with so many scumbags, liars, scam artists and amateurs. The list of people who have screwed me over one way or another is long. I dont forget that. I dont work with people who have screwed me in the past. Call that a fracture if you want I call it common sense.

Want the industry to not be fractured? Start holding people accountable and kicking out the dead weight. If everyone just refused to work with the bad actors they would eventually die off. But that doesnt happen because many in pool are so desperate they will work with anyone to make a buck. Leaving us with the glorious situation we now have,

I have never seen or heard of an industry with less integrity than pool. I am embarrassed to tell people outside of pool about things that are considered normal in the industry. It is no wonder at all that no one wants anything to do with it. Pool needs to get its own house in order before their is any hope of bringing any outside interest in.