Artimis cushions upside down

Cardigan Kid said:
Is it true that diamond could make the change and have the curve side up but this would lead to a ton of confusion of customers thinking the rails are built wrong so they leave the issue alone?
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No, I personally have no complaints about how the cushions play mounted the way Artemis recommends installing them, but if any of the customers I've rebuilt the rails for have any complaints, they're sure welcome to voice their opinions right here in this thread.
 
realkingcobra said:
No, I personally have no complaints about how the cushions play mounted the way Artemis recommends installing them, but if any of the customers I've rebuilt the rails for have any complaints, they're sure welcome to voice their opinions right here in this thread.
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I respect your experience this issue and the information learned is well valued. But could you elaborate as to why artemis recommends installing them flat side up, but yet some other mechanics say curved side up is only way? And on gold crowns do they keep same recommendation?
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I respect your experience this issue and the information learned is well valued. But could you elaborate as to why artemis recommends installing them flat side up, but yet some other mechanics say curved side up is only way? And on gold crowns do they keep same recommendation?
Click to expand...

Why do some mechanic's install K66 Cushions on rails clearly designed to take K55 cushions?
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'd like to see a GC2 with Artemis that plays really good.
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Makes no difference on what table you put the Artemis on....speaking of GC tables......1-2-3-4-5. The cushions are going to play pretty much the same.....if the hump side is on top....or up....the Artemis cushions will play better.....and some what truer with new cloth.....as the cloth wears....they play shorter and springy.....no matter what side is up.....but they do play a little better with the hump side up.
People are just getting used to how the cushions play.....any table anyone spends a lot of time on....their going to like the that table plays....PERIOD.
The name of the table means nothing.....the cushions are going to determine how that table plays.
How a mechanic installs the cushions will help a ton for sure.....or how the sub rails are modified as well.
Artemis cushions play the same now for years.....but everyone wants to know what's the right side to put on top.....or why do they bank short......or why do they spring.......its a BILLIARD cushion......I said that when I first joined the forum......no one agreed.....maybe after all these years....they might just believe......if you like a cushion that plays with a true speed....or don't bank short....or spring.....put Brunswick super speed on your Brunswick table....I have no problem using them all the time....just did GC 4.....yes I cut the sub rails off....put my spec's....and bolt system.....with 4-1/8" corners at Johnny Archers poolroom.....they love the speed and the play of the table.
Mark Gregory
 
To Glen and to Mark.

You two seem to have single (double) handedly changed the way people in the "know" have the cushions installed.

How about a detailed drawing showing what a stock configuration is of a wooden rail + a rubber cushion, and then what you modify the wooden rail + rubber cushion to "play their best". We can do this for GC's with Monarch, GC's with modern rubber, Red Diamonds, and Blue Diamonds, the most popular tables amongst the "players".

I don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing your work, imo. After all, most people are not even going to bother with any of the advanced table stuff you guys do, except for the customers who read this forum who are "players".

I feel after over 5 years of you two discussing these rail mods, still, the customers here on AZ don't know what you are actually doing. And as evidenced in this thread, you two are not even doing the same thing.

As they say, a picture is worth 1000 words. I can help make drawings if you two would like. Mechanical ngineering is my day job and I am well versed in CAD.

I feel you two have changed the way the tables play, for better or worse, and it would be very beneficial to the advanced customers here on AZ to understand EXACTLY what is going on.

Again, I would be happy to make drawings for you two for the purpose of posting them here on AZ. Please PM me if you would like my help.

Edit: Furthermore, if you are wanting to spread this information to other mechanics, or manufacturers, or players, you NEED detailed drawings. Drawings are the universal language in engineering that transcends all language and cultural boundaries.

Edit #2: I also live in Atlanta, and would be happy to come to Mark's shop if he will have me. I can borrow some rails and some rubber profiles, take them to my day job, and measure them precisely. I have optical comparators, height gages, even a coordinate measuring machine. I can then use these measurements to make a very precise CAD model of what is going on. We can all learn from this, compare what is going on, share with others, and improve the process if need be. We can adjust the CAD model to see what different angles will do to the nose height, "mass of rubber" behind where the ball strikes, etc. I want to get to the bottom of this rail debate, and I'm sure many others on here want to also.

Edit #3: I can model each type of wood rail individually (before mod), each type of wood rail individually (after mods) and each rubber shape individually (monarch, modern super speed, Artemis, Diamond Black, etc.). Then we can mix and match the wood rails to the rubber. These CAD models can be very useful to the mechanics, to the advanced customers, and to the curious types.

Thank you,
Nick
 
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perfectpocketz said:
Makes no difference on what table you put the Artemis on....speaking of GC tables......1-2-3-4-5. The cushions are going to play pretty much the same.....if the hump side is on top....or up....the Artemis cushions will play better.....and some what truer with new cloth.....as the cloth wears....they play shorter and springy.....no matter what side is up.....but they do play a little better with the hump side up.
People are just getting used to how the cushions play.....any table anyone spends a lot of time on....their going to like the that table plays....PERIOD.
The name of the table means nothing.....the cushions are going to determine how that table plays.
How a mechanic installs the cushions will help a ton for sure.....or how the sub rails are modified as well.
Artemis cushions play the same now for years.....but everyone wants to know what's the right side to put on top.....or why do they bank short......or why do they spring.......its a BILLIARD cushion......I said that when I first joined the forum......no one agreed.....maybe after all these years....they might just believe......if you like a cushion that plays with a true speed....or don't bank short....or spring.....put Brunswick super speed on your Brunswick table....I have no problem using them all the time....just did GC 4.....yes I cut the sub rails off....put my spec's....and bolt system.....with 4-1/8" corners at Johnny Archers poolroom.....they love the speed and the play of the table.
Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

Curious to hear your opinion on Kleber cushions? All information on this thread is great and valuable to the industry, thanks for sharing.
 
iusedtoberich said:
To Glen and to Mark.

You two seem to have single (double) handedly changed the way people in the "know" have the cushions installed.

How about a detailed drawing showing what a stock configuration is of a wooden rail + a rubber cushion, and then what you modify the wooden rail + rubber cushion to "play their best". We can do this for GC's with Monarch, GC's with modern rubber, Red Diamonds, and Blue Diamonds, the most popular tables amongst the "players".

I don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing your work, imo. After all, most people are not even going to bother with any of the advanced table stuff you guys do, except for the customers who read this forum who are "players".

I feel after over 5 years of you two discussing these rail mods, still, the customers here on AZ don't know what you are actually doing. And as evidenced in this thread, you two are not even doing the same thing.

As they say, a picture is worth 1000 words. I can help make drawings if you two would like. Mechanical ngineering is my day job and I am well versed in CAD.

I feel you two have changed the way the tables play, for better or worse, and it would be very beneficial to the advanced customers here on AZ to understand EXACTLY what is going on.

Again, I would be happy to make drawings for you two for the purpose of posting them here on AZ. Please PM me if you would like my help.

Edit: Furthermore, if you are wanting to spread this information to other mechanics, or manufacturers, or players, you NEED detailed drawings. Drawings are the universal language in engineering that transcends all language and cultural boundaries.

Edit #2: I also live in Atlanta, and would be happy to come to Mark's shop if he will have me. I can borrow some rails and some rubber profiles, take them to my day job, and measure them precisely. I have optical comparators, height gages, even a coordinate measuring machine. I can then use these measurements to make a very precise CAD model of what is going on. We can all learn from this, compare what is going on, share with others, and improve the process if need be. We can adjust the CAD model to see what different angles will do to the nose height, "mass of rubber" behind where the ball strikes, etc. I want to get to the bottom of this rail debate, and I'm sure many others on here want to also.

Edit #3: I can model each type of wood rail individually (before mod), each type of wood rail individually (after mods) and each rubber shape individually (monarch, modern super speed, Artemis, Diamond Black, etc.). Then we can mix and match the wood rails to the rubber. These CAD models can be very useful to the mechanics, to the advanced customers, and to the curious types.

Thank you,
Nick
Click to expand...

Nick
I would be grateful for you to come to my shop and discuss cushions....and would love to have your help with CAD drawings.....that would be great and would give me even better insight on cushions as well.
I'm more than sure I have no secrets...as I've giving people help with everything.....and we can do something for the industry to go by.....now will they....who knows.
It's hard for me to train mechanics....I've done that and they say trust me I won't try and take what work you do....yeah right....then why do they want to know.
But what your talking about needs to be done....and then anyone can set the cushions at the right pecs.....now doing the work on the rails is something all together different....and I don't see anyone doing the sub rail replacement the same way......Glen and I are close....but we are still far apart in ways.
Nick feel free to contact me when you have free time.
770-548-4292
Thank you
Mark Gregory
 
perfectpocketz said:
Nick

I would be grateful for you to come to my shop and discuss cushions....and would love to have your help with CAD drawings.....that would be great and would give me even better insight on cushions as well.

I'm more than sure I have no secrets...as I've giving people help with everything.....and we can do something for the industry to go by.....now will they....who knows.

It's hard for me to train mechanics....I've done that and they say trust me I won't try and take what work you do....yeah right....then why do they want to know.

But what your talking about needs to be done....and then anyone can set the cushions at the right pecs.....now doing the work on the rails is something all together different....and I don't see anyone doing the sub rail replacement the same way......Glen and I are close....but we are still far apart in ways.

Nick feel free to contact me when you have free time.

770-548-4292

Thank you

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...


Awesome Mark. Thanks, I'll be in touch and we can set up a play date.

Nick.
 
Mark, Im going to be in Atlanta tomorrow. Is your shop close to Peachtree Airport?

Im also planning on playing at Mr. Cues 2 in the afternoon before I have to fly out. Are there any of your modified rails/tables there.

Thanks

Jim
 
jtompilot said:
Mark, Im going to be in Atlanta tomorrow. Is your shop close to Peachtree Airport?

Im also planning on playing at Mr. Cues 2 in the afternoon before I have to fly out. Are there any of your modified rails/tables there.

Thanks

Jim
Click to expand...

There's always rails in my shop....lol and a lot of other shit too...lol
Call me your not far from Jonesboro at all.
770-548-4292
Mark Gregory
 
realkingcobra said:
Let me try and understand what every one is saying about the Artemis cushions, in all your opinions, Diamond is mounting them upside down, and according to every one saying so, because they don't play as good unless they're mounted hump side up. Then could anyone explain to me, that if Diamond and myself are wrong, then please explain why Shane just won his third straight US Open playing on tables that according to all you who oppose the way Diamond mounts these cushions? The greatest pool players on earth are playing banks, 9 ball, 10 ball, 8 ball, 14.1 and every other known game of pool with the cushions mounted the way Diamond and myself recommend them to be mounted....as WELL as the Artemis company. So, all you must know something I don't know, because I just don't have any problems with them, nor do any of the customers that I've rebuilt pool tables for and installed the Artemis cushions on. World beaters are playing on them at "DCC" and have no complaints about how they play. The 10' big foot challenge tables have them installed as well, best players in the world don't have any complaints, so what's the problem? Trust me, if ANYONE complained to Greg Sullivan about the cushions and how they played, Greg would be all over it looking for a replacement cushion, but he's not, so how come?

Glen
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They play short Glen. They double bank backwards on shallow angles. That's a fact just like you being the best table mechanic in the galaxy.
 
What ever you say. Can't handle yourself in the PM ' S you spout your mouth off at me, and now you think your going to get under my skin here in the mechanic's forums....go right a head make my day:rolleyes:
 
takeitdown said:
They play short Glen. They double bank backwards on shallow angles. That's a fact just like you being the best table mechanic in the galaxy.
Click to expand...

You're not a mechanic or a player, but now a sheep, you got that handled pretty well....baaaa....baaaa
 
takeitdown said:
They play short Glen. They double bank backwards on shallow angles. That's a fact just like you being the best table mechanic in the galaxy.
Click to expand...

Just so you know, you can back up a double bank, even a triple bank cross side into the side pocket where the first bank goes past the side pocket long, then reverses back cross side into the other side pocket....you know that right? Same shot can be made on a GC with with Super Speed cushions too....so, I guess you need to practice some more, and learn that balls develop an opposite spin on them from the first bank, more noticeable on a short angle second bank....there is no such zigzag to banks unless shot soft to begin with.....LEARN SOMETHIN before you start making it clear to anyone reading that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that your real reason for posting is to try your best to discredit me, like that's going to happen! Most ALL your posts on AZB are in the action room, or the for sale section.....please tell me you have SOMETHING to contribute to the reason AZB even exists, other than this garbage and your own self serving purposes!
 
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