At what point do you think it's adventagious to learn to jump?

[Straightpool_99]

I see the same answers alot about kicking but it seems to be overlooked that jumping is soo beneficial if you play alot of different places. The condition of the rails can be soo that kicking is a crap shoot but the straight line of jumping never changes.

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Really, lots of situations where you are an underdog at kicking, lets say the final few balls, the object ball centrally on the table, can easily be a game winner if you can jump. People talking about masses being higher percentage than jumping, clearly can't jump worth a damned. I'd say that applies to a VERY select handful of situations, and even then, a good jumper can make it just about equal. Masses do have their place, and sometimes are a better choice for other reasons than make percentage, but they are rarely high percentage shots unless the curve is very slight and/or the object ball is close to the pocket.

Pool is a very attacking game. Often there are few balls on the table, and the pockets are comparatively huge in relation to snooker and blackball (which both outlaw jumping). Blackball is played on a tiny table, where the rails are squarenosed and act very predictably, so kicking balls in (even with smaller pockets) is often quite simple. In addition, you can kick safe by putting balls on the rails for a safety and the table is usually very crowded. On a pool table, there is nowhere to hide. Any open shot can be made, so if you miss pocketing a kick late in the game it's game over. In snooker, distance and putting balls on the rails are often effective safeties, where they are not in pool.

It seems not that the tight pocket crowd is getting their way more and more in pool. It may make kicking safe more easy and may slow the game down quite a bit. I guess we'll see.

 

[Black-Balled]

When?!

When you decide you no longer hate money, that is the moment.

 

[VIProfessor]

When should you learn the jump shot?

Yesterday.

At the 550-600 level you should already be encountering people who LOVE to push out to an easy jump against you, knowing that you can't take advantage of it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Jumping is like kicking or banking. Another weapon in your arsenal.

Practice is key to be good jumper.

 

[alstl]

For bangers who don't have the time to learn how to kick then it is advantageous to learn how to jump so they don't give up ball in hand.

In the world 9 ball I saw Shane pass up 2 easy one rail kicks and instead pull out the jump cue. The result was leaving a good shot for his opponent and elimination from the tournament.

In the finals with the score 10-9 I saw Omar attempt an easy kick and miss. That's the only tournament I've seen him play and he is a good player but I suspect he relies heavily on the jump cue and isn't proficient at kicking.

For a high level player the ability to kick and kick safe still has a place in the game. Get deep into a world tournament and failure to do so can cost you.

Then again if I had a sponsor who was paying me to use his jump cue I'd probably use it too. If someone made a cue from compressed cow manure and offered enough cash to sponsor players there would be players using a cow manure cue - and bangers would start using it because they see the "stars" using it.

The farmer John cow shit cue - coming soon to a pool hall near you.

 

[PoolBoy1]

Don't like jumping. Masse, kick, take your medicine. If you have to learn to jump use someone else's table to practice.

 

[sjm]

I think this is all about what your opponents can do. If those you are typically trying to beat are able to jump, you need to learn it.

 

[David in FL]

I think this is all about what your opponents can do. If those you are typically trying to beat are able to jump, you need to learn it.

I’m going to respectfully disagree…

In my experience, those opponents that don’t jump are more likely to forget/discount it as a viable option and are more likely to leave a competent jumper options that they don’t necessarily recognize because of their own limitations. As an example, they can be the ones that you can push out to a relatively easy jump and might expect to get the shot handed back to you…

 

[sjm]

I’m going to respectfully disagree…

In my experience, those opponents that don’t jump are more likely to forget/discount it as a viable option and are more likely to leave a competent jumper options that they don’t necessarily recognize because of their own limitations. As an example, they can be the ones that you can push out to a relatively easy jump and might expect to get the shot handed back to you…

Can't disagree here, Dave, but I'm not answering the question of whether learning to jump will help one win at pool at every level. Of course it will.

Many recreational players don't even own a playing cue, and those that only play in bars may never see a jump cue in a lifetime. Jumping has its place in all levels of competition, but at recreational levels of the game, it's dispensable, and I would never advise a purely recreational player to buy a jump cue until they intended to compete against others that jump.

 

[The_JV]

In the world 9 ball I saw Shane pass up 2 easy one rail kicks and instead pull out the jump cue. The result was leaving a good shot for his opponent and elimination from the tournament.

I recall Shane's difficulty with jumping in that tournament. In most cases he was opting for offense with rather easy-moderate jumps rather than returning control of the table with a kick to hopeful safe.

Shane is an extreme example, simply because of who he is, but an example none the less. I don't have a number to post but I have to think merely based on the content I've laid eyes on that the vast, and I mean vast majority of kick attempts is defensive in nature. We have all seen our fair share of offensive kicks, but that's not the norm. Jumping rather than masse' or kicking, usually is offensive. ...or at the very least an effort to eliminate a couple of variables (rails, unknown carom angle) when attempting a return safety.

I've always been lead to believe that aggressive offence is the right way to play 9-ball. I think Shane's choices were born of that ideal. He needed to steal back control, and a moderate to easy jump is a great way to do it.

In the finals with the score 10-9 I saw Omar attempt an easy kick and miss. That's the only tournament I've seen him play and he is a good player but I suspect he relies heavily on the jump cue and isn't proficient at kicking.

...or he just missed because he attempted to be too precise with the hit to one side of the OB. Easy to blame a reliance on the jump, but if memory serves he was using Gorst's jump cue. That means he either doesn't have one, or forgot to pack it in his case before heading to the WPC.

Was this the shot you're thinking of...?...:

The fault on that shot was misjudging the masse not a bad kicking angle. One of the reasons I think playing with masse' is haphazard at best.

For a high level player the ability to kick and kick safe still has a place in the game. Get deep into a world tournament and failure to do so can cost you.

The kick safe is a flat out weapon. No level of proficiency with a jump shot will replace the kick safe. It unfortunately is probably one of the last skills a player picks up in their development, so it's severely lacking in today's game.

 

[alstl]

I recall Shane's difficulty with jumping in that tournament. In most cases he was opting for offense with rather easy-moderate jumps rather than returning control of the table with a kick to hopeful safe.

Shane is an extreme example, simply because of who he is, but an example none the less. I don't have a number to post but I have to think merely based on the content I've laid eyes on that the vast, and I mean vast majority of kick attempts is defensive in nature. We have all seen our fair share of offensive kicks, but that's not the norm. Jumping rather than masse' or kicking, usually is offensive. ...or at the very least an effort to eliminate a couple of variables (rails, unknown carom angle) when attempting a return safety.

I've always been lead to believe that aggressive offence is the right way to play 9-ball. I think Shane's choices were born of that ideal. He needed to steal back control, and a moderate to easy jump is a great way to do it.

...or he just missed because he attempted to be too precise with the hit to one side of the OB. Easy to blame a reliance on the jump, but if memory serves he was using Gorst's jump cue. That means he either doesn't have one, or forgot to pack it in his case before heading to the WPC.

Was this the shot you're thinking of...?...:
View attachment 599171
The fault on that shot was misjudging the masse not a bad kicking angle. One of the reasons I think playing with masse' is haphazard at best.

The kick safe is a flat out weapon. No level of proficiency with a jump shot will replace the kick safe. It unfortunately is probably one of the last skills a player picks up in their development, so it's severely lacking in today's game.

The problem with the jump cue vs a kick is you don't have as much control on where the cue ball goes. That's what happened to Shane and both shots were easy one rail kicks.

That is the shot from Omar and it cost him the match. Jumping the ball was not an option and his kicking game appeared to be subpar. I asked the question on a post about Shane practicing whether he was practicing his kicking game.

 

[The_JV]

The problem with the jump cue vs a kick is you don't have as much control on where the cue ball goes. That's what happened to Shane and both shots were easy one rail kicks.

Oh agreed... I'm just saying that he most likely was just taking an opprotunity to be offensively aggressive. I know the jumps I saw him miss in those cases were easy enough that it stood out as a shooting error. Not a bad decision.

No doubt that a jump has far greater energy than a typical 1 rail kick. As far as control goes.... Well, the advanced jumper does have some decent ability to move the ball around after contact. It's also way easy to aim for a direct carom with a jump then it is when kicking off a rail.

That is the shot from Omar and it cost him the match. Jumping the ball was not an option and his kicking game appeared to be subpar. I asked the question on a post about Shane practicing whether he was practicing his kicking game.

Again I don't blame the kicking angle as much as he poorly calibrated masse'. Hitting the CB hard enough to prevent the spin from taking over such a distance isn't easy. Especially if you haven't previously dialed in the table for such a shot.

I think based on what I saw of Shane's jumping game, he should either hire Gorst for a few lessons or put it away and stick to kicking.

 

[prad]

Lot of players can jump, key is to do control jumping, put spin on jump, visualizing a jump shot like any other shot. these things take time but it is an essential skill to have.

 

[Luxury]

The amount of time it takes to learn to jump with a jump cue from someone that can teach you is literally about 5 minutes and will win you sooooo many games. Think about being straight in but hooked with the only stripe left on the game winning 8 ball that is 5 inches from the side pocket. I win that game 95% of the time with a simple jump but if I go for the kick which could give ball in hand either by missing the 8 completely or by hitting the 8 and scratching or even a good hit leaves an easy out, I'm losing about 80% of the time.

Just learn it. You don't have to practice it very often. Also when you do learn it, don't over practice it on day one because you will be using new muscles. Have fun and be prepared for oooohs and ahhhhs when you win a game with a jump. Whether there should be oooohs and ahhhhhs is a whole other topic. lol Cheers!

 

[Woodshaft]

My 2 cents is that if you're primarily only playing 8-ball on a bar box, don't bother with a jump cue. The playing surface is too small and many bad things (bounce cueball off table, sink the 8 early, break up strategic clusters for your opponent, scratch, etc...) can happen with an errant jump shot. Learn to kick better, or how to tie your opponents balls up better, instead of using a jump shot. I'd much rather give my opponent a "controlled" ball-in-hand than send the cueball flying across the table out of control.
It's been my experience that unless you're a jump-cue experienced , 580+ fargorated player, playing 9 or 10-ball on a 9-foot table, the better outcome is to NOT use a jump cue.
Jumping is more of a "look what I can (or cannot) do" showboat shot in barbox 8-ball. I laugh my butt off at average players with jump cues lol.
Learn to play ON THE TABLE better first, then (maybe) get a jump cue.

 

[Korsakoff]

I was pretty decent at jumping until I quit playing regularly in the mid 90s. Richard always said he made his cues to play pool, so I used my player to break and jump. Richards tips were so hard, you would have to work to change their shape. I’d bet you could stroke into a concrete wall for 30 minutes, chalk it up and play a match with no problems.

 

[buckshotshoey]

My 2 cents is that if you're primarily only playing 8-ball on a bar box, don't bother with a jump cue. The playing surface is too small and many bad things (bounce cueball off table, sink the 8 early, break up strategic clusters for your opponent, scratch, etc...) can happen with an errant jump shot. Learn to kick better, or how to tie your opponents balls up better, instead of using a jump shot. I'd much rather give my opponent a "controlled" ball-in-hand than send the cueball flying across the table out of control.
It's been my experience that unless you're a jump-cue experienced , 580+ fargorated player, playing 9 or 10-ball on a 9-foot table, the better outcome is to NOT use a jump cue.
Jumping is more of a "look what I can (or cannot) do" showboat shot in barbox 8-ball. I laugh my butt off at average players with jump cues lol.
Learn to play ON THE TABLE better first, then (maybe) get a jump cue.

I disagree. Being a bar box is so congested, it makes kicking even that much more difficult. Combine that with the fact that the cushions on Bar Boxes are generally not that well kept, and are sometimes completely unreliable. Even cushions on the same table have sometimes severe variations, let alone one table to the next.

Ask this question to those that dont like jump cues.... Do you play on bar boxes? At least half will say no.

As for most uncontrollable shot on the table, that would be the masse, hands down. Masse shots are very very rare among Pros in tournaments. Swinging shot a little bit yes.... full out Masse... no!

 

[ctyhntr]

Definitely agree that you should learn now. Playing against a skilled jumper changes decisions.

This is the crux, too many players don't take the time to learn and rely on the cue. If I'm facing a C+ or below using a jump cue, I end up with ball in hand most of the time.

 

[The_JV]

As for most uncontrollable shot on the table, that would be the masse, hands down. Masse shots are very very rare among Pros in tournaments. Swinging shot a little bit yes.... full out Masse... no!

Agreed... Rarely is a masse' the best option, as accuracy is completely a crap shoot. ...and even in those acceptable instances it's some dinky little 1/8' bend that also requires limited CB speed for shape.

 

[ShootingArts]

I object to jump cue users more than jump cues. When somebody is jumping balls off the table and distracting the players around them I have a problem with that. I have played in places that had a jar to drop a dollar in every time you lost a ball off of the table. A fine idea in my opinion, might make it a couple bucks today!

Get a jump cue, a piece of cloth to protect the table, and learn to jump! If you don't have a table of your own go to the hall during off hours and find a table that won't disturb others while you are learning to jump.

No actual count to back this statement up but I have won many a game because of jump cues, my opponent's jump cues. Instead of jumping as a last resort they are probably jumping three or four times an hour. Considering how often they foul, their jump cue is an advantage for me!

Jump cues are here to stay so getting one and learning how to use it is an advantage. Not using one and not having one with you tells your opponent they can forget you jumping a full ball. Perhaps when circumstances are perfect but that is rarely the case. Get a damned pogo stick, more importantly, learn how to use it after you buy it. You should already have purchased one.

Hu