Attention WPBA....How is this fair?

JB Cases said:
when she isn't allowed to play in tournaments with the men on a regular basis? She already dominates the women's tour so what is the incentive to getting better than she already is?
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I can't believe you said that. No one dominates the Women's tour any more if you are talking about the WPBA.

The way i read it, Kelly is currently ranked 8th (I know she's better than that) and IMO she isnt likely to dominate any time soon and no one else is either. There are about 8 of them ladies neck and neck.
 
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Look at it this way.. a WPBA event gets xxx amount of players.. lets say 56 but they had 8 qualifiers all robbed by pros that would have paid their way anyways.. Now you just shrunk your field and your payouts by 8 people. The people that would have filled your field. I don't see the logic in a pro playing a qualifier and if I had a room and hosted a qualifier, there would be no pro's in it, that I can tell you.

JV
 
Bobby said:
It's always been that way. Pros have always played in these kind of regional qualifiers. Not saying it's fair, just the way it's always been.
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pros have played in state championships only, with the exception of the Ladies Spirit Tour so no, it has not always been this way.
 
If there are no more than four or five events a year on the tour we're going to see some of the top women leave the US to go back to their country. Anyone from the US with no sponsor is looking very carefully to see if it's really worth their effort to continue to play the tour.

Let's face it, you either have to be in the top 10 in the world, beg, borrow, and steal for money to get to the tournaments, or the player or her family has to have money just to give away. The business model for the WPBA is very much outdated. Only the well off can afford to fly across the county, stay at a chosen by the tour hotel, plus all the other expenses. If you have no sponsor you better have a top 5 finish or you will not break even if you have to travel far. Subtract the travel exspences, taxes, and time off work, and what do do get? Not much room for profit left. Johnnyt
 
akaTrigger said:
Just for the record, it's not the WPBA that decides if a regional tour can allow pros to play, it's the TOUR that decides that. The WPBA gives us, the Regional Tours, that decision/flexibility. State Championships are the only exception - the state championships are open to pros per the WPBA.

Most Regional Tours ask the players if they want the pros to play or not in their tour and then make that "ruling." If they don't ask the players (and/or sponsors/pool rooms), then IMHO, they aren't listening to the players.

The OB Cues Tour asked the players many years ago and it was decided not to allow them to play based on the feedback we heard. The Spirit Tour asked their players several years ago and they were okay with the pros playing. (fyi, the reason the Spirit Tour is no longer is NOT because they allowed pros to play.)
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the concept of asking the players that pay the dues and attend the events is ideal, but unfortunately, in the case of the JPNEWT, this season that was not an option. the pros showed up and they were allowed. in the past, that was not the case, they were allowed to state championships only.
 
Johnnyt said:
If there are no more than four or five events a year on the tour we're going to see some of the top women leave the US to go back to their country. Anyone from the US with no sponsor is looking very carefully to see if it's really worth their effort to continue to play the tour.

Let's face it, you either have to be in the top 10 in the world, beg, borrow, and steal for money to get to the tournaments, or the player or her family has to have money just to give away. The business model for the WPBA is very much outdated. Only the well off can afford to fly across the county, stay at a chosen by the tour hotel, plus all the other expenses. If you have no sponsor you better have a top 5 finish or you will not break even if you have to travel far. Subtract the travel exspences, taxes, and time off work, and what do do get? Not much room for profit left. Johnnyt
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the Satellite Tour that begins in July (I think it is) should help with the funds issue as they are $10k added I believe. not to mention there are plenty of tours floating around to attend.
 
Johnnyt said:
If there are no more than four or five events a year on the tour we're going to see some of the top women leave the US to go back to their country. Anyone from the US with no sponsor is looking very carefully to see if it's really worth their effort to continue to play the tour.

Let's face it, you either have to be in the top 10 in the world, beg, borrow, and steal for money to get to the tournaments, or the player or her family has to have money just to give away. The business model for the WPBA is very much outdated. Only the well off can afford to fly across the county, stay at a chosen by the tour hotel, plus all the other expenses. If you have no sponsor you better have a top 5 finish or you will not break even if you have to travel far. Subtract the travel exspences, taxes, and time off work, and what do do get? Not much room for profit left. Johnnyt
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Johnny, I found out what the payouts were for the Regional Tour event that Karen and Julie took off over the weekend, and it blew my mind. I guess they had hoped for a bigger field?

The original post was about the Regional tournament that Karen Corr won recently in Evansville, IN. I was notified that the tournament payed 600 for first!:eek: So, that means Karen and Julie (finished 2nd= $400 roughly) traveled from far away to win about $1,000. If they flew then plane tickets were probably at least $200 a piece. The hotel room for two nights was at least $125, and that is if they stayed at the Cockroach Inn. So now they have over $500 in expenses, not counting food to win $1,000?? It does not add up. But, I guess since they knew they had the "NUTS" it didn't matter.

It is really sad that the WPBA has dwindled down like they have. Especially, since the women are so marketable. I guess it just goes back to the same old argument.....Pool will never make it in America:(:mad:

One poster said it the best in a previous post, the pros have no where to settle in and are really left to wander. SUCKS!!
 
generally speaking, few that play the regional tours or professionally make enough to make the trips to the events worth their time/effort. the game is played because it is loved by the individual for the most part.

if the industry leaders would support the game (instead of just collecting money from its members for its own doings) and fund it as other sports do, that might change. until then, we that play the game will continue doing the same ole same ole (and going broke while doing it).
 
derekdisco said:
Sup Melissa, I dunno about what's right and wrong in the topic being discussed, but you was lookin fine in Vegas, so if you end up in Evansville for a qualifier, holla at a playa.
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I am still upset I missed girl1one in vegas.

1on1.......maybe the Karen Corrs and Kelly Fischers have it with their sponsors that they are also paid either to show up, reimbursed for travel or some sponsors add a percentage to any money won at an event.
 
watchez said:
I am still upset I missed girl1one in vegas.

1on1.......maybe the Karen Corrs and Kelly Fischers have it with their sponsors that they are also paid either to show up, reimbursed for travel or some sponsors add a percentage to any money won at an event.
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Man, that whole crew was lookin right. Trigger, Girl11, melissa morris, and miss herndon. I was about to see if we could get a hook up at the wynn for one of those nice rooms with a hottub in it!
 
derekdisco said:
Man, that whole crew was lookin right. Trigger, Girl11, melissa morris, and miss herndon. I was about to see if we could get a hook up at the wynn for one of those nice rooms with a hottub in it!
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How about a cabana at the Euro pool?

Hey - you think one of these champion women could teach me how to jump a ball?
 
Nostroke said:
I can't believe you said that. No one dominates the Women's tour any more if you are talking about the WPBA.

The way i read it, Kelly is currently ranked 8th (I know she's better than that) and IMO she isnt likely to dominate any time soon and no one else is either. There are about 8 of them ladies neck and neck.
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I agree that no one lady will dominate the tour for awhile. I just hope there is a tour to play in by next year. Johnnyt
 
This is in response to the original blog "Attention WPBA...How is this fair? I am Bill Hess and I am the Tour Coordinator for the event in question. In order to discuss this issue we must first have accurate facts. There are numerous inaccuracies in the original blog by 1on1pooltourneys. This was not an amateur event. The title of the event was "O'Brian's Great Lakes Pro-Am Open. Pro meaning professional, am meaning amateur and open meaning all comers. The entry fee was not $200 it was $100. The other fees were a $25 registration fee, a $25 WPBA Player Membership fee and a $50 Tour Membership fee which is similar to all the regional tours. The women that had already paid their WPBA and Malt Membership fees only paid a total of $125 to enter. The event also paid 100% of the field and players who went 2 and out received checks for either $50 or $65. Also, the name of the tour is the "Jacoby Custom Cues Mid American Ladies 9-Ball Tour" and is a WPBA sactioned tour. WPBA as in Women's Professional Billiard Tour. We follow the WPBA rules and dress code. There were five WPBA players in the event and 4 of the five drew each other in the first round. It was Kathy Moon's first event ever and she won the qualifier by playing great pool. 1on1pooltourneys stated that Karen Corr and Julie Kelly only came for monetary reasons. They came to play the game they love with their friends, many of which also played against each other in the 2009 Music City Open. They also came because their scheduled allowed, it was close to Nashville, and they were invited just like all the other female pool players from around the world. Karen and Julie were also made to feel very welcome by the players, many of which were honored to have the opportunity to play against them and in the same tournament. One local player joined the tour and entered the event because of the quality of the players and the event. My wife and I also enjoy playing in amateur pool leagues but the Malt Tour is a professional tour not a social club for women who want to play in jeans and socialize. Our players are here for the competition and to play professionally not to win a qualifier as stated by 1on1. There were also higher level players who would have turned down the qualifier just like on the other tours. 1on1 also commented that they only want to play players of their skill level. Does that mean we should have a qualifier for the qualifier and eliminate players for being too good or not good enough? This event was also covered by the media worldwide including local TV coverage. In addition the venue added $1500 and expected to have a professional event and that is exactly what they got. 1on1 said to just hand Karen the Julie the money but there is no guarantee they would win. For example, Iris Ranola played on this tour last year and made it to the final match in the 2008 US Open. There was also one other player in this weekends event that has had success against Karen. I also have a question for 1on1 about the comment that they should be allowed to play in State Championships but not Qualifiers. What is the difference?

Now for the biggest issue in all of this involving the players. The changes that are taking place at the WPBA are being misunderstood by both players and fans. After this year, there will be no more qualifiers. There are also no Regional Point Champions for this season. In order to play on the WPBA in 2010 you must either 1) finish in the top 40 at the end of this season or 2) compete in the WPBA Qualifing Tournament at the beginning of 2010. What exactly does this mean? It means that if you are playing in the WPBA this season and there is a chance you may not finish in the top 40 then you must qualify for the WPBA Qualifying Tournament. How do you qualify? By 1) finish the season ranked 41 to 64 or 2) finish at the top of a regional tour. For example, after one event some of the touring pros have found themselves already ranked 49th this season. If they fall to below 64 for the season then they will have no chance of playing on the WPBA Tour in 2010. What if they need to miss an event due to sickness, injury or personal issues? They will be in trouble. That is why all the pros need to play on regional tours. There are no more "touring pros" that have a guaranteed spot for the following season. If they finish at the top of a regional tour and secure a spot at the WPBA Qualifying Tournament with their WPBA ranking, then their regional tour spot goes to the next player in the rankings on the regional tour.

I have tried to clarify the issues. Feel free to contact me if anyone needs further clarification at malttour.com. Attention female pool players of all skill levels. You are invited to come play on the Jacoby Malt Tour where you will have more fun, receive more money, play higher competition and be promoted as a professional pool player. Ask any of our players.
 
Malt Tour said:
This is in response to the original blog "Attention WPBA...How is this fair? I am Bill Hess and I am the Tour Coordinator for the event in question. In order to discuss this issue we must first have accurate facts. There are numerous inaccuracies in the original blog by 1on1pooltourneys. This was not an amateur event. The title of the event was "O'Brian's Great Lakes Pro-Am Open. Pro meaning professional, am meaning amateur and open meaning all comers. The entry fee was not $200 it was $100. The other fees were a $25 registration fee, a $25 WPBA Player Membership fee and a $50 Tour Membership fee which is similar to all the regional tours. The women that had already paid their WPBA and Malt Membership fees only paid a total of $125 to enter. The event also paid 100% of the field and players who went 2 and out received checks for either $50 or $65. Also, the name of the tour is the "Jacoby Custom Cues Mid American Ladies 9-Ball Tour" and is a WPBA sactioned tour. WPBA as in Women's Professional Billiard Tour. We follow the WPBA rules and dress code. There were five WPBA players in the event and 4 of the five drew each other in the first round. It was Kathy Moon's first event ever and she won the qualifier by playing great pool. 1on1pooltourneys stated that Karen Corr and Julie Kelly only came for monetary reasons. They came to play the game they love with their friends, many of which also played against each other in the 2009 Music City Open. They also came because their scheduled allowed, it was close to Nashville, and they were invited just like all the other female pool players from around the world. Karen and Julie were also made to feel very welcome by the players, many of which were honored to have the opportunity to play against them and in the same tournament. One local player joined the tour and entered the event because of the quality of the players and the event. My wife and I also enjoy playing in amateur pool leagues but the Malt Tour is a professional tour not a social club for women who want to play in jeans and socialize. Our players are here for the competition and to play professionally not to win a qualifier as stated by 1on1. There were also higher level players who would have turned down the qualifier just like on the other tours. 1on1 also commented that they only want to play players of their skill level. Does that mean we should have a qualifier for the qualifier and eliminate players for being too good or not good enough? This event was also covered by the media worldwide including local TV coverage. In addition the venue added $1500 and expected to have a professional event and that is exactly what they got. 1on1 said to just hand Karen the Julie the money but there is no guarantee they would win. For example, Iris Ranola played on this tour last year and made it to the final match in the 2008 US Open. There was also one other player in this weekends event that has had success against Karen. I also have a question for 1on1 about the comment that they should be allowed to play in State Championships but not Qualifiers. What is the difference?

Now for the biggest issue in all of this involving the players. The changes that are taking place at the WPBA are being misunderstood by both players and fans. After this year, there will be no more qualifiers. There are also no Regional Point Champions for this season. In order to play on the WPBA in 2010 you must either 1) finish in the top 40 at the end of this season or 2) compete in the WPBA Qualifing Tournament at the beginning of 2010. What exactly does this mean? It means that if you are playing in the WPBA this season and there is a chance you may not finish in the top 40 then you must qualify for the WPBA Qualifying Tournament. How do you qualify? By 1) finish the season ranked 41 to 64 or 2) finish at the top of a regional tour. For example, after one event some of the touring pros have found themselves already ranked 49th this season. If they fall to below 64 for the season then they will have no chance of playing on the WPBA Tour in 2010. What if they need to miss an event due to sickness, injury or personal issues? They will be in trouble. That is why all the pros need to play on regional tours. There are no more "touring pros" that have a guaranteed spot for the following season. If they finish at the top of a regional tour and secure a spot at the WPBA Qualifying Tournament with their WPBA ranking, then their regional tour spot goes to the next player in the rankings on the regional tour.

I have tried to clarify the issues. Feel free to contact me if anyone needs further clarification at malttour.com. Attention female pool players of all skill levels. You are invited to come play on the Jacoby Malt Tour where you will have more fun, receive more money, play higher competition and be promoted as a professional pool player. Ask any of our players.
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Gee, I wonder why anyone is confused:rolleyes: Johnnyt
 
Malt Tour said:
This is in response to the original blog "Attention WPBA...How is this fair? I am Bill Hess and I am the Tour Coordinator for the event in question. In order to discuss this issue we must first have accurate facts. There are numerous inaccuracies in the original blog by 1on1pooltourneys. This was not an amateur event. The title of the event was "O'Brian's Great Lakes Pro-Am Open. Pro meaning professional, am meaning amateur and open meaning all comers. The entry fee was not $200 it was $100. The other fees were a $25 registration fee, a $25 WPBA Player Membership fee and a $50 Tour Membership fee which is similar to all the regional tours. The women that had already paid their WPBA and Malt Membership fees only paid a total of $125 to enter. The event also paid 100% of the field and players who went 2 and out received checks for either $50 or $65. Also, the name of the tour is the "Jacoby Custom Cues Mid American Ladies 9-Ball Tour" and is a WPBA sactioned tour. WPBA as in Women's Professional Billiard Tour. We follow the WPBA rules and dress code. There were five WPBA players in the event and 4 of the five drew each other in the first round. It was Kathy Moon's first event ever and she won the qualifier by playing great pool.

1on1pooltourneys stated that Karen Corr and Julie Kelly only came for monetary reasons. They came to play the game they love with their friends, many of which also played against each other in the 2009 Music City Open.
I'm sure the $1500 added had nothing to do with it!!:eek:
They also came because their scheduled allowed, it was close to Nashville, and they were invited just like all the other female pool players from around the world. Karen and Julie were also made to feel very welcome by the players, many of which were honored to have the opportunity to play against them and in the same tournament. One local player joined the tour and entered the event because of the quality of the players and the event. My wife and I also enjoy playing in amateur pool leagues but the Malt Tour is a professional tour not a social club for women who want to play in jeans and socialize.

Our players are here for the competition and to play professionally not to win a qualifier as stated by 1on1.
I have to disagree. If you think that the majority of the girls that show up to any tournament that offers a qualifying spot for the WPBA aren't trying to get that spot, well, I guess you are just confused. You should start having a player survey at your events, and ask if they are their to play against the top players in the world, or, win a qualifying spot on the WPBA, and then play against the top females in the world. I think you will find the latter choice will be the answer.

There were also higher level players who would have turned down the qualifier just like on the other tours. 1on1 also commented that they only want to play players of their skill level. Does that mean we should have a qualifier for the qualifier and eliminate players for being too good or not good enough?
This event was also covered by the media worldwide including local TV coverage. In addition the venue added $1500 and expected to have a professional event and that is exactly what they got. 1on1 said to just hand Karen the Julie the money but there is no guarantee they would win. For example, Iris Ranola played on this tour last year and made it to the final match in the 2008 US Open. There was also one other player in this weekends event that has had success against Karen.

I also have a question for 1on1 about the comment that they should be allowed to play in State Championships but not Qualifiers. What is the difference?

I believe I said that it is more acceptable to allow the top 32 pros or so to play in State events. I understand they both offer qualifying spots. State events should be tougher competition.

Now for the biggest issue in all of this involving the players. The changes that are taking place at the WPBA are being misunderstood by both players and fans. After this year, there will be no more qualifiers. There are also no Regional Point Champions for this season. In order to play on the WPBA in 2010 you must either 1) finish in the top 40 at the end of this season or 2) compete in the WPBA Qualifing Tournament at the beginning of 2010. What exactly does this mean? It means that if you are playing in the WPBA this season and there is a chance you may not finish in the top 40 then you must qualify for the WPBA Qualifying Tournament. How do you qualify? By 1) finish the season ranked 41 to 64 or 2) finish at the top of a regional tour. For example, after one event some of the touring pros have found themselves already ranked 49th this season. If they fall to below 64 for the season then they will have no chance of playing on the WPBA Tour in 2010. What if they need to miss an event due to sickness, injury or personal issues? They will be in trouble. That is why all the pros need to play on regional tours. There are no more "touring pros" that have a guaranteed spot for the following season. If they finish at the top of a regional tour and secure a spot at the WPBA Qualifying Tournament with their WPBA ranking, then their regional tour spot goes to the next player in the rankings on the regional tour.

I have tried to clarify the issues. Feel free to contact me if anyone needs further clarification at malttour.com. Attention female pool players of all skill levels. You are invited to come play on the Jacoby Malt Tour where you will have more fun, receive more money, play higher competition and be promoted as a professional pool player. Ask any of our players.
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Word it how you want, the fact is it's still a tournament filled with mostly NON-PROS that are playing their hearts out to try and have an attempt at winning a qualifying spot. I do not understand why people can't accept the fact that non-touring pros trying to win a qualifying spot to play with the top ranked women in the world, should not have to defeat them in these qualifying tournaments in order to get a chance to play them again. It is simple. I will not even begin to compare pool with other sports like others have, but come on, how does it make sense?

Why not just take the qualifying spot and throw it out the window then? Do you think you would still get the turnout? I mean, if you advertise your tournaments as WPBA professional events, then why even have a qualifying spot? I think then it would be easier to justify the top ranked (which I have stated all along) pros playing in your events this way.
 
1on1pooltournys said:
I will not even begin to compare pool with other sports like others have, but come on, how does it make sense?
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I'm not sure it can be compared to other sports. The golf analogy doesn't really apply since golf today is played almost exclusively at stroke play rather than match play, including U.S. Open qualifying.

So while there may be some effect on the other players should Tiger and Phil enter a Nationwide Tour event and place 1-2 since the top twenty on the money list at the end of the year get their cards on the Big Show and placing first or second is worth a lot more money than 3rd or 4th, it is not the drastic consequence of having to face these two guys in the first two rounds of a match play tournament and getting knocked out altogether.

The way I'm understanding the new rules it seems the dilemma still applies. Even though a player is not going for a WPBA tournament spot at a regional qualifier, they are still competing for good finishes over the year that will hopefully earn them a spot to the qualifying tournament. If top pros are playing in these events and a player draws them at a couple of tournaments and gets knocked out, it will still greatly hurt their chances of getting to the Q tourney.

I'm not sure the pros competing in these events really does much to increase their incomes, but I can see two sides for the other players, depending on one's perspective. If having top pros helps the regional tours thrive, this also helps the players of those tours, but from strictly a placement standpoint it does leave a lot up to the luck of the draw. Great if you draw away from these players but sucky if you draw into them early.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
The way I'm understanding the new rules it seems the dilemma still applies. Even though a player is not going for a WPBA tournament spot at a regional qualifier, they are still competing for good finishes over the year that will hopefully earn them a spot to the qualifying tournament. If top pros are playing in these events and a player draws them at a couple of tournaments and gets knocked out, it will still greatly hurt their chances of getting to the Q tourney.
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Yes, it seems like they have made it to where it will be even more political and harder to get on the WPBA than it already is. I think they will run into a lot of problems with this format. First, you will have a lot more pros playing in these events just in case they fall out of the top 40, plus the lower ranked pros that have to re-qualify each year.
The secret is to get soo good that it just doesn't matter!!
Oh well, it is what it is, I really do not care one way or another any more on this topic. I just wanted to kick up some dirt on this topic and get some answers. I would like to see the WPBA prosper and flourish, but it may be that in these times it is just not going to happen.
 
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