Attention WPBA....How is this fair?

[1on1pooltournys]

so these women are trying to win a spot to play with the pros but are complaining because pros are playing in the qualifying tourney? how does this make sense?

Most of these women are regional players and play at an amateur level!! They are trying to elevate their game and grade their papers. Sure, there may be 1 or 2 that play at a "pro speed" but haven't gotten enough points to be ranked and stay on the WPBA Tour. Once that happens, if it does, then they are a touring pro and should no longer be playing in tournaments with people trying to "qualify" to play. If the WPBA would open up their tournaments, and have more of them, maybe that would help solve a lot of the problem??

And, please know that I am a man, and only voiced my opinion after I learned more about the WPBA and how they operate. It is tough for girls to get a chance to play in an event, and even tougher to get invited back.

 

[Klink]

Most of these women are regional players and play at an amateur level!! They are trying to elevate their game and grade their papers. Sure, there may be 1 or 2 that play at a "pro speed" but haven't gotten enough points to be ranked and stay on the WPBA Tour. Once that happens, if it does, then they are a touring pro and should no longer be playing in tournaments with people trying to "qualify" to play. If the WPBA would open up their tournaments, and have more of them, maybe that would help solve a lot of the problem??

And, please know that I am a man, and only voiced my opinion after I learned more about the WPBA and how they operate. It is tough for girls to get a chance to play in an event, and even tougher to get invited back.

Why wouldn't the WPBA open their events? Wouldn't more women competing, equal more money for everyone involved? or does the WPBA worry about an unknown player making it to the TV matches? Therefore discounting the drawing power of there "star players".

 

[Rich R.]

Most of these women are regional players and play at an amateur level!! They are trying to elevate their game and grade their papers.

And how do they elevate their game if they don't play better players???

Sure, there may be 1 or 2 that play at a "pro speed" but haven't gotten enough points to be ranked and stay on the WPBA Tour. Once that happens, if it does, then they are a touring pro and should no longer be playing in tournaments with people trying to "qualify" to play. If the WPBA would open up their tournaments, and have more of them, maybe that would help solve a lot of the problem??

What do you mean by "open up their tournaments"? Should they just let anyone play? They already fill a 64 player field and they usually have a waiting list if a player can't make it.
Do you think they should increase the number of players? I hope you realize that there are just so many matches that can be played in a day, with a certain amount of tables. Bringing in more tables means more expenses. More players on the same number of tables means more days to run the tournament. More days means the ladies will have to pay for hotel rooms for more nights, increasing their expenses.

Please tell us how the WPBA can "open up their tournaments" without drastically increasing the expenses for everyone.

As far as having more tournaments goes, don't you think the WPBA would love to have more tournaments. However, sponsors are not knocking down their door to put up thousands of dollars to hold a tournament. If you know of any sponsors willing to put up the money, please contact the WPBA. I'm sure they would be happy to hear from you.

And, please know that I am a man, and only voiced my opinion after I learned more about the WPBA and how they operate. It is tough for girls to get a chance to play in an event, and even tougher to get invited back.

Whether your a man or a woman makes no difference. You obviously don't have a clue as to what goes into putting on a pro tournament. You have a lot to learn.

Also, it is suppose to be tough for a player to get a chance to play in a WPBA event and to get invited back. That is how they insure that the best possible 64 players get into the field for each tournament. The ladies playing in the WPBA tournaments are talented pool players. If they weren't, no one would want to pay to watch the tournament.

If you really want to help the women players, do everything you can to support you local regional tour. Some of the tours are having big financial problems and it is very hard for them to keep going. Attend as many tournaments as you can and spend some money while you're there, to show room owners that it is worth it for them. Encourage your local rooms to sponsor regional tournaments. By doing these things, you'll help the players in your area and when they are good enough, they will get to the WPBA.

 

[watchez]

Seems like the WPBA operates just like the pool hall - they eat their young and stomp them out. And where has this gotten the WPBA and it's current evolvement - 4 events this year. Down from how many in previous years? Obviously, this regional tour qualifier, open to all is not helping to develop the WPBA at all.

There are plenty of Viking, GSBT, Joss events for the WPBA pros to play in to try and supplement their income.

Someone send Tiger Woods an email and let him know that he should be filling his off weeks with Nationwide Tour events. He could make a killing and show the rest of the golfers that they don't belong.

 

[ribdoner]

Seems like the WPBA operates just like the pool hall - they eat their young and stomp them out. And where has this gotten the WPBA and it's current evolvement - 4 events this year. Down from how many in previous years? Obviously, this regional tour qualifier, open to all is not helping to develop the WPBA at all.

There are plenty of Viking, GSBT, Joss events for the WPBA pros to play in to try and supplement their income.

Someone send Tiger Woods an email and let him know that he should be filling his off weeks with Nationwide Tour events. He could make a killing and show the rest of the golfers that they don't belong.

U get a 10 from the RUSSIAN judge

 

[Johnnyt]

The tour that Corr and J. Kelly just won had 12 players show up for it. Probably because they heard who was going to play. That tour won't last long. The problem is that these amatuers need to make some money too for travel, motel, food to keep going to the qualifiers. A very big percentage of the pros that have come through the qualifiers in the last 6 years or so, and go up the rankings of the WPBA for the most part were champions in their homeland before they came here. Like I said before almost every tour stop for 5 years was won by a pro on one tour that is no more. The regionals don't work anymore and should be just for amatuer women with the new talent coming from invites that would be applied for.

With only a few WPBA events a year now, it doesn't pay for anyone to even try to get on unless you are rich already. Johnnyt

 

[pvc lou]

I've always hated those whiners at tournaments who want to ban players for being too good. If a pro is playing in any tournament i'm in, then great! I might have a shot at going up against a pro. Who could ask for a better test of one's ability? Moreover, are these amateurs who are trying to qualify for the pro-tour expecting to get on tour to just lose to the pros? Aren't they trying to qualify to get the opportunity to COMPETE with the pros...i.e. to BE a pro? If so, then how can they complain if a pro comes to play in their qualifier? Get that weak stuff outtahere.

 

[LAlouie]

Hasn't this topic been posted before?

Let the pros play. It's better to crush the spirit of newbie players early, so they can go back and earn a respectable living like housemaids or cooks.

 

[JB Cases]

Kelly,

The situation is completely flawed when someone of your caliber is made to "qualify". The WPBA ought to have something in place that grants spots to recognized talent from other disciplines and organizations. The World Snooker champion should not have to qualify for the WPBA.

It's quite a silly situation to make players of your caliber run around the country chasing down spots.

I understand that you want and need to make money at any tournament you can do it at but if it's at the expense of the hopefuls then it's not really beneficial to the sport.

Even though the amateurs can still win the qualifying spot you are still taking the majority of the money out of the tournament and denying them the chance to earn expenses.

I don't know, to me it's like clubbing baby seals.

Not that I haven't ever robbed an easy tournament before though but I never felt anything but guilt when I did it.

 

[JB Cases]

Hasn't this topic been posted before?

Let the pros play. It's better to crush the spirit of newbie players early, so they can go back and earn a respectable living like housemaids or cooks.

Wow - that's rough!

Or maybe they won't waste their time pursuing pool as a career and will go on to become powerful women in other aspects of life.

The next Oprah thanks the top five in the WPBA for crushing her and sending her on a new career path.

 

[JB Cases]

I've always hated those whiners at tournaments who want to ban players for being too good. If a pro is playing in any tournament i'm in, then great! I might have a shot at going up against a pro. Who could ask for a better test of one's ability? Moreover, are these amateurs who are trying to qualify for the pro-tour expecting to get on tour to just lose to the pros? Aren't they trying to qualify to get the opportunity to COMPETE with the pros...i.e. to BE a pro? If so, then how can they complain if a pro comes to play in their qualifier? Get that weak stuff outtahere.

Good user name! Rep for that!

Yeah this side has merit as well. I agree with the competitive aspect of it. For me it's only partially about the qualifier portion because the hghest finishing person who needs the spot gets it. There is plenty of merit to the fact that someone could come from a long way away and be the best in the field EXCEPT for the pros, draw Kelly Fisher and Karen Corr right out of the gate and be 2 and out. That's a plain fact.

How many amateurs in Tennis would show up if their advancement depended on getting past Agassi and Roddick?

But putting that aspect aside for a moment there is the financial side of it. Since only one player can win the qualifier spot, worth a $500 entry fee only that leaves everyone else competing for the prize money. The nut for all the players is the same, travel, food, lodging. So if I am an amateur with maybe half a shot at getting the qualifier spot if there are no pros in the event then at least I can count on getting in the money and making my nut. But throw three or four pros in the mix and now my chances of getting in the money much less winning the qualifier have greatly diminished. At that point it's cheaper to stay home.

Hardly anyone who plays pool competitively can afford to do it just out of love for the game. They have to be able to win some money once in a while to keep their head afloat.

My way preserves that for the amateurs AND allows the pros to make a good living without disrupting the flow of players trying to get into the pro events.

Just what Ayn Rand would have said is good capitalism.

 

[JimS]

I think the op, JB, and most of the other posters have valid points in opposing the presence of pros in the qualifying tournaments. The point made by the op that depending on the draw the potential winner of the tournment could go 2 and out is valid.. imo.

I also can't argue with John Galt's (I knew that name was familiar!) point.... except to say that his, or Reardon's or his obvious mentors philosophy, is too limiting and doesn't, as far as I've been able to see, allow for being humane to the runt.

It seems to me that having an Open and an Amature tournament during the same weekend is the answer. They've done that locally several times when the likes of Putnam, Jon Kucharo, James Baracks, Josh Johnson and Jesse Bowman show up for the little town events.

This year... a couple weeks back, with no "pros" in attendance, we in Galesburg had a much better turnout that the previous year for the WPBA qualifier, even though the entrance fee had be raised a considerable amount. I don't know that this proves anything but it does serve as an expample of the op's point.

 

[BrooklynJay]

the thing everyone is ignoring is the $$$.

the reason pros play in these events is that being a "professional" in pool doesn't mean that they've suddenly made it financially like it often does in other sports. i'm sure these women would love it if they could live off of the classic tour's prize money, sponsorship deals and what nots and not have to grind it out at every regional stop just to make ends meet. unfortunately, they can't. i've heard that if you don't finish in the top 16 in the classic tour then you've lost money after factoring in expenses. a week of hotels, airfare, food. the top 16. just to "break even". that's tough action.

besides, banning "pros" will just get you a group of "professional amateurs" - women who will consistently win these regional stops but turn down the qualifying spot on the wpba tour just to maintain their amateur status.

there's already a bunch of women out there who seem to win a lot of apa events, bca events, etc. but just never seem to turn "pro" - it's probably because the moneys better at the amateur level.

 

[Johnnyt]

They are called WPBA Qualifiers. If you have already qualified you shouldn't be allowed to play. If the top players on the WPBA Tour want to get beter and make more money they should be playing in open events where THEY can face tougher compation to get better and make more money. Not the other way around. Johnnyt

 

[Blackjack]

The pros are not eligible for the qualifying spots. They show up at these events and do two things:

1) Toughen up the field
2) Draw fans to watch the regional events

Some may not agree with allowing them to play, but it gives the regional players an idea of where they need to be to compete at the next level. The regional tours have great players as well, and no tournament is a cake walk for any of the lady pros.

In Florida, we have had XTP, GYK, Vivian Villareal, Helena Thornfeldt, Monica Webb, Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, and many others compete in the LST events. They have won a lot of those events. However, I have seen the top players show up and not take the top prize.

Great players such as Tracie Hines, Debbie Schjodt, and Jeannie Seaver and many many others have taken their games to the next level by competing in the regional tours and acclimating themselves to the tougher competition. The tougher competition is provided by the presence of the top pros. The pros are welcome at these events, and encouraged to compete in them. From what I have seen, everybody has a great time. I have never heard anybody complain about the pros competing.

The pros are eligible for the cash, but not the qualifier or regional tour points. The regional tours are a great opportunity for a young player to show up and have the opportunity of playing the top players in the world. You get to compete, learn, gain experience and knowledge from the very best that the world has to offer.

You can't put a price tag on that.

 

[Johnnyt]

The pros are not eligible for the qualifying spots. They show up at these events and do two things:

1) Toughen up the field
2) Draw fans to watch the regional events

Some may not agree with allowing them to play, but it gives the regional players an idea of where they need to be to compete at the next level. The regional tours have great players as well, and no tournament is a cake walk for any of the lady pros.

In Florida, we have had XTP, GYK, Vivian Villareal, Helena Thornfeldt, Monica Webb, Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, and many others compete in the LST events. They have won a lot of those events. However, I have seen the top players show up and not take the top prize.

Great players such as Tracie Hines, Debbie Schjodt, and Jeannie Seaver and many many others have taken their games to the next level by competing in the regional tours and acclimating themselves to the tougher competition. The tougher competition is provided by the presence of the top pros. The pros are welcome at these events, and encouraged to compete in them. From what I have seen, everybody has a great time. I have never heard anybody complain about the pros competing.

The pros are eligible for the cash, but not the qualifier or regional tour points. The regional tours are a great opportunity for a young player to show up and have the opportunity of playing the top players in the world. You get to compete, learn, gain experience and knowledge from the very best that the world has to offer.

You can't put a price tag on that.

If some on the qualifier tours want to find out how they match up with women and men pros let them play in the open tournaments where the women pros should be playing...leave the qualifer money for the amatuers,. Johnnyt

 

[adam boyd]

Very nice insight. I especially like the part of the challenge matches. I think the top pros would make a much better impression if they went to these tournaments with the attitude of supporting the other girls, and trying to market themselves and the WPBA, and not just showing up to steal the prize money. Karen has won Joss tournaments with very good male players, she really has no business in these events.

Dennis hatch wins like every joss event. Should he be banned from playing in them.

 

[Johnnyt]

Dennis hatch wins like every joss event. Should he be banned from playing in them.

Of course he shouldn't be banned from the Joss Tour. That's an open event. That is not what we're talking about here. We're talking pros playing in amatuer events and taking most of the purse money. Johnnyt

 

[Blackjack]

Johnny

The pros show up at these events and attract fans. Fans attract sponsors. Fans bring money in for the tour and for the room that is hosting the event. Its a win/win.

I have never heard anybody complain about the pros showing up to play. In fact, they are warmly welcomed by the regional tour players.

Most of the players I have talked to are not playing for the prize money. They are playing to earn the qualifying spot for the WPBA event.

As I said in my earlier post, the pros don't always win events because they decided to show up. There are some really good players on the regional tours, and because of the participation of the pros, they will only get better.

 

[Johnnyt]

As I said in my earlier post, the pros don't always win events because they decided to show up. There are some really good players on the regional tours, and because of the participation of the pros, they will only get better.
__________________
Check the history of the Florida Spirit Tour back to 2002. See how many non pros won an event. Non-pros won 10% of them...maybe. And don't consider a Ga Young Kim and the likes of the ones that already WERE champions before they came over here to be amatuers...they were not. Johnnyt