Average on breaks

Mr. Wilson

Mr. Wilson

El Kabong
Gold Member
Silver Member
Talking with my son yesterday and he was trying to argue that he makes 2, 3 or even 4 balls nearly every break so I had to call B.S.

Now, he's 11 so I don't rub it in too hard but we started off with 10 breaks apiece.

He didn't like his average very much, so we bumped the number to 20 breaks.

His overall avg was .3 (point 3) and while I thought I'd do better, mine was only 1.4 per break.

Has anyone else done something like this?
 
Might be better to see how many times you made at least one ball. Also if you had a shot after the break and how often you scratch.
 
Yeah ...

These guys on here, or other billiards forums, that say
when they break, they ALWAYS make 2 or 3 balls, and
sqat the cue ball center table are full of s**t.... lol
 
Nick Varner did a test on breaking some years back. They documented everything on 1000 breaks I believe with the balls racked in the same order. That article if I can find it was the best thing I have ever read on breaking 9-ball.
 
Snapshot9 said:
These guys on here, or other billiards forums, that say
when they break, they ALWAYS make 2 or 3 balls, and
sqat the cue ball center table are full of s**t.... lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, though they walk through the Valley (and the BCA), he speaks the truth! LMAO This is perhaps the biggest myth about the break there is. Even the best pros on Earth do not make a ball on the break every time. The average kept by Accu-Stats over a 20 YEAR period, showed that 30 to 40% of the time(whether it was 8-ball or 9-ball), they came up empty. So if someone is making a ball on the break half the time, you're doing better than MOST!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Y'all should know I'm going to have to get him to do this all over for a 9 ball break.

We were using full racks of 8 ball.
 
After reading your thread, I went to the pool hall last night and tried it on an 8 footer, 9-ball. I have a better than average break compared to most other B-players. I broke 10 games and made 13 balls. Threw away two games by scratching. If I had kept the cueball on the table I'd have made 15. Made the 9 once.
 
Breaks are a funny thing. I found that sometimes I'll break and start making at least one ball each break, then all of the sudden in the 8th break nothing is going it al all. Later I might have a break and 2 or 3 go in. All at the same break spot and hitting the pack nearly the same way. I have no idea of what my average might be, but I would guess conditions change. racks are a little difffernt each time, hitting the cue ball a little different even though I do not intend to and break speed.
 
WOW!

I make a ball over half the time in 9 ball and about half the time in 8 ball.

In 9 ball my average is I'm guessing 1.5 per break. I very seldon scratch on the break. I've made as many as 4 on the break in both 8 and 9 ball although not even close to doing it regularly...I'm talking once.

I'm an APA 3 in 8 ball who has been playing less than a year.

LWW
 
LWW said:
WOW!

I make a ball over half the time in 9 ball and about half the time in 8 ball.

In 9 ball my average is I'm guessing 1.5 per break. I very seldon scratch on the break. I've made as many as 4 on the break in both 8 and 9 ball although not even close to doing it regularly...I'm talking once.

I'm an APA 3 in 8 ball who has been playing less than a year.

LWW
Click to expand...

LWW...Congratulations! When you've been playing a few years, and broken 1000+ racks, those numbers will not hold up.

Scott Lee
 
You're right ...

pete lafond said:
Breaks are a funny thing. I found that sometimes I'll break and start making at least one ball each break, then all of the sudden in the 8th break nothing is going it al all. Later I might have a break and 2 or 3 go in. All at the same break spot and hitting the pack nearly the same way. I have no idea of what my average might be, but I would guess conditions change. racks are a little difffernt each time, hitting the cue ball a little different even though I do not intend to and break speed.
Click to expand...

I know .. lol Breaks are like women, 1 little thing, and then nothing ...lol
or you can suffer all night not making anything when you broke like a
champion the night before. Or it can just be the table, or you have
broken good all day in a tournament, and you come up against someone
close to your speed, and don't make anything the first 3 or 4 breaks, and
then you discover he racking above the spot, but you are already behind
3 or 4 games by then ... (especially when the breaks are the difference
between winning the match or not, and he knows that)... You just can
not assume anything for sure, you have to watch them all the time ...
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Talking with my son yesterday and he was trying to argue that he makes 2, 3 or even 4 balls nearly every break so I had to call B.S.

Now, he's 11 so I don't rub it in too hard but we started off with 10 breaks apiece.

He didn't like his average very much, so we bumped the number to 20 breaks.

His overall avg was .3 (point 3) and while I thought I'd do better, mine was only 1.4 per break.

Has anyone else done something like this?
Click to expand...
At one time, Accu-stats kept break percentages among many other percentages and averages on the pro players. They published their results in a monthly (or so) newsletter. I'm sure such stats are in there.

I kept track of the breaks at the WPC in Cardiff in about 10 matches one year. An interesting result there was that the wing ball went in about 90% of the breaks, and on the remaining 10%, about half the time a ball went in. This means that the pros were making at least a ball 95% of the time, and I'm sure their average was over 1.0.

The table makes a lot of difference, and clearly the rack is critical.
 
Bob Jewett said:
At one time, Accu-stats kept break percentages among many other percentages and averages on the pro players. They published their results in a monthly (or so) newsletter. I'm sure such stats are in there.

I kept track of the breaks at the WPC in Cardiff in about 10 matches one year. An interesting result there was that the wing ball went in about 90% of the breaks, and on the remaining 10%, about half the time a ball went in. This means that the pros were making at least a ball 95% of the time, and I'm sure their average was over 1.0.

The table makes a lot of difference, and clearly the rack is critical.
Click to expand...


95% of the time seems awfully high. This translates into missing a ball on the break only once out of 20 breaks. Must have been unusual conditions, big buckets. (I'm sure you did not use averaging total balls made, because this sort of averaging does not make sense when talking about breaks.)
 
pete lafond said:
95% of the time seems awfully high. This translates into missing a ball on the break only once out of 20 breaks. Must have been unusual conditions, big buckets. ..
Click to expand...
Not particularly buckets. The unusual part was that the racks were tight. The vast majority of nine ball is played with loose racks. It is really pointless to discuss breaking percentages without including the nature of the rack.

In my view, the importance of the rack and the break at nine ball is the main thing that makes it unsuitable for a championship game. If the rack is tight, the wing ball will go in. If the wing ball doesn't go in for anything close to a reasonable break shot, the rack was loose.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Talking with my son yesterday and he was trying to argue that he makes 2, 3 or even 4 balls nearly every break so I had to call B.S.

Now, he's 11 so I don't rub it in too hard but we started off with 10 breaks apiece.

He didn't like his average very much, so we bumped the number to 20 breaks.

His overall avg was .3 (point 3) and while I thought I'd do better, mine was only 1.4 per break.

Has anyone else done something like this?
Click to expand...

I think you did a great thing here for your son. Teaching him the difference between "remembering my best break" and imagining "that's my real average". There is a tremendous amount of self-denial in all of us, and a humbling effect in actually keeping track of such statistics.

About a year ago here, Fast Larry (methinks it was, too lazy to search) asked how many could run out with BIH from 3 balls. Everybody said 100%! Prove it! When they tried and got a rude shock...(truth hurts.)

I took this idea to my poolroom and asked the B players what their percentage was the guesstimate was 95%, then I said "Prove it!". Universally not as good as they thought they were when the proof was there to see. Result? They got much more serious and everybody went up about one ball in run length. When I got to 75%, I added another ball. Now up to 5 balls, 60% or so.

Real drills, real scores, recorded and tried repeatedly make you a better player if improvement is the goal.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Not particularly buckets. The unusual part was that the racks were tight. The vast majority of nine ball is played with loose racks. It is really pointless to discuss breaking percentages without including the nature of the rack.

In my view, the importance of the rack and the break at nine ball is the main thing that makes it unsuitable for a championship game. If the rack is tight, the wing ball will go in. If the wing ball doesn't go in for anything close to a reasonable break shot, the rack was loose.
Click to expand...
Very true. Everybody needs to get on the same page. The rack is much more important than the break in 9 ball. EVERY rack at the last Billiard Channel tournament was better than ANY rack at a Camel event, and they used APA volunteers trained by Paul Potier to rack the balls by hand after using a template to set the table. If the 9 rolls off its spot without a kiss, you had a bad rack. The perfect rack is killing 9-ball, but will allow 10-ball and up to be more successful.

unknownpro

unkownpro
 
Yes, but

unknownpro said:
Very true. Everybody needs to get on the same page. The rack is much more important than the break in 9 ball. EVERY rack at the last Billiard Channel tournament was better than ANY rack at a Camel event, and they used APA volunteers trained by Paul Potier to rack the balls by hand after using a template to set the table. If the 9 rolls off its spot without a kiss, you had a bad rack. The perfect rack is killing 9-ball, but will allow 10-ball and up to be more successful.

unknownpro

unkownpro
Click to expand...

To be perfectly fair, the balls need a good rack, and to be racked in a
constant sequential order, especially the final matches. This ole however
the racker rolls the ball up, where the 2 might be on the tail one rack, and
behind the one on the next is not right, especially for final matches.
 
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