I?m sorry but I feel like a lot of people have been wondering this. With all of the recent threads and incidents that have become public knowledge, what does everyone think? Quite frankly, I feel that all of the negative stuff that is being posted for the entire pool world to see has to put yet another dent in the sport. I am the first person to listen and inquire on certain matters pertaining to pool, but with the overwhelming amount of despiteful things I read on this forum, I can't help but ask myself where we all were 10 to 15 years ago? Honestly, the only reason I get on the forums any more is to see what is going on with TAR and prestigious tournaments, however, I'm always bombarded with things I really don't like reading or seeing that are always promoted by people that obviously like to discourage new comers away from pool and in my eyes friends, that is a DAMN shame.
AZ..has it done more good or bad?
- Thread starter 1on1pooltournys
- Start date
When you get on the inside of anything and behind the scenes there is a dark side and a bright side. 
The only way to clean it up is to get it out there in the open. Besides that you would need to assume that anyone who matters really cares about any of this. They don't.
There is more unethical crap going on in big time sports than pool players could even dream of. Drugs, game fixing, gambling, under the table deals, infighting, scandals, it's all there every day in all sports.
It's like this: If people cared to spend a lot of time watching pool then pool would have big time sponsors. That's it.
Football appeals to more people, baseball appeals to more people, advertisers want to have their ads seen by more people. Pretty simple formula. In fact, the more scandal the better for advertisers. Why? Scandal sells papers, it attracts viewers who have to know the latest dirt.
Why do the scandal threads here on AZ get more views and more replies? Because people LIKE drama. They don't want to live in a Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine and peaches all the time.
So no, AZ (more specifically, the AZ community) has not hurt pool one bit. If anything it makes the pool world a better place by exposing a lot of the crap that goes on and brings us all closer so we can be on the same page as to how to make pool better.
I don't see how having a worldwide community of die hard fans who can communicate in near real time is a bad thing.
I think we all learn something every day here.
There is more unethical crap going on in big time sports than pool players could even dream of. Drugs, game fixing, gambling, under the table deals, infighting, scandals, it's all there every day in all sports.
It's like this: If people cared to spend a lot of time watching pool then pool would have big time sponsors. That's it.
Football appeals to more people, baseball appeals to more people, advertisers want to have their ads seen by more people. Pretty simple formula. In fact, the more scandal the better for advertisers. Why? Scandal sells papers, it attracts viewers who have to know the latest dirt.
Why do the scandal threads here on AZ get more views and more replies? Because people LIKE drama. They don't want to live in a Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine and peaches all the time.
So no, AZ (more specifically, the AZ community) has not hurt pool one bit. If anything it makes the pool world a better place by exposing a lot of the crap that goes on and brings us all closer so we can be on the same page as to how to make pool better.
I don't see how having a worldwide community of die hard fans who can communicate in near real time is a bad thing.
I think we all learn something every day here.
If you have been around pool in the past years you know these stories already have happened. Non of the stories posted in the past few weeks are new to the pool world.
Bets not paid, cues not made, all things that have happened before and will continue to happen if not for places like AZ to help spread the word on who the gomers out there are.
Some of the stories (besides some of the drama) of pool gone by and some of the stories that are unfolding now are just exciting to read. It's nice that we have a Shayne VB having his career develop right in front of us. Without AZ most of us would not know the heart warming stories that come from him and his family.
Without AZ where would have you heard stories from folks like Freddy and Jay and Grady and Jam and Johnnyt, the list goes on and on.
Some great stories of old school pool and new school pool with the guys from TAR laying out a new way for us to be a part of pool in another part of the world. It's just exciting.
For the drama, it is what it is.
I think the only time that something is hurt is by hiding the truth.
I like AZ and think it truly has done more for the sport then anything.
peace
mrs.g
Bets not paid, cues not made, all things that have happened before and will continue to happen if not for places like AZ to help spread the word on who the gomers out there are.
Some of the stories (besides some of the drama) of pool gone by and some of the stories that are unfolding now are just exciting to read. It's nice that we have a Shayne VB having his career develop right in front of us. Without AZ most of us would not know the heart warming stories that come from him and his family.
Without AZ where would have you heard stories from folks like Freddy and Jay and Grady and Jam and Johnnyt, the list goes on and on.
Some great stories of old school pool and new school pool with the guys from TAR laying out a new way for us to be a part of pool in another part of the world. It's just exciting.
For the drama, it is what it is.
I think the only time that something is hurt is by hiding the truth.
I like AZ and think it truly has done more for the sport then anything.
peace
mrs.g
My point of view is that AZ is a communication tool, and a very good one at that. It is one part of the INTERNET which is creating the biggest changes in our global society today. Increased and enhanced communication worldwide via the internet, is responsible for bringing people together, and ultimately may make this a more peaceful planet. And I'm all for that.
It amazes me that I can talk to someone in Communist China who has never heard of The Beatles or Elvis, and doesn't know that Neil Armstrong was the first man on the Moon. And that's in 2008! What's happening in Beijing right now transcends sport. It is an introduction to the outside world for more than one billion people. Without the internet, I doubt this could have happened.
For the pool community to grow and prosper, we need AZ Billiards, and the other websites and forums that pertain to our sport. Without them pool would become a relic of the past.
It amazes me that I can talk to someone in Communist China who has never heard of The Beatles or Elvis, and doesn't know that Neil Armstrong was the first man on the Moon. And that's in 2008! What's happening in Beijing right now transcends sport. It is an introduction to the outside world for more than one billion people. Without the internet, I doubt this could have happened.
For the pool community to grow and prosper, we need AZ Billiards, and the other websites and forums that pertain to our sport. Without them pool would become a relic of the past.
jay helfert said:
pool will never die... pool is the perfect balance..
easy enough for anyone to make a couple balls....
and to hard for anyone to make them all
the only thing a 1 ball run and a 1000 ball run have in common is they both ended with a miss..
pool isn't going away anytime soon.
I only wish there were more sites like AZ ... I think it is great to be able to get on here and soak up the knowledge and the stories from good to past greats ... Follow todays pro's and be able to ask for advise ... To be able to talk to the pro's , the cue makers , Tour promoters and others in the game and make friends ... Az is a wealth of information that has never been available before even if at times you have to look past some of the posts and be weary of some of the posters and sellers ... In all things there are good and bad and I think the good out wieghs the bad here by a long shot ...
I approach the AZ forums as if the people I communicate with here were standing in front of me having a conversation. A keyboard commando grows balls the size of Alpha Centauri because they know they are hidden through a state of anonymity. They will state things in posts that they would never in their life say to that same person if they were sitting across from them.
I, personally, could do without the arguments, insults, name calling and negative comments which seems to prevail from certain members at times.
On the positive side:
I've met some great people on this site whom I've had the pleasure of meeting out in the real world.
The evolution of AZ Billiards over the last few years is nothing less than phenonmenal. The amount of knowledge stored in the archives of this forum is encyclopediac in nature. There is something for everyone from the newbie to the sport to the advanced player. I wish something like this had been available 45 years ago when I started playing.
I've learned alot and, hopefully, passed on a little knowledge.
Stones
I, personally, could do without the arguments, insults, name calling and negative comments which seems to prevail from certain members at times.
On the positive side:
I've met some great people on this site whom I've had the pleasure of meeting out in the real world.
The evolution of AZ Billiards over the last few years is nothing less than phenonmenal. The amount of knowledge stored in the archives of this forum is encyclopediac in nature. There is something for everyone from the newbie to the sport to the advanced player. I wish something like this had been available 45 years ago when I started playing.
I've learned alot and, hopefully, passed on a little knowledge.
Stones
I stumbled on this site when I went looking for instruction on the web.
This place serves me, and, presumably, anyone looking to improve play, well.
So AZB is a force for good in the billiard world:grin: :grin: :grin:
This place serves me, and, presumably, anyone looking to improve play, well.
So AZB is a force for good in the billiard world:grin: :grin: :grin:
I think AZ has grown like many BIG forums. Think about it, if you take out threads about squirt, aiming systems, tips, etc. the only thing to talk about is what is going on today. Many times the things going on are not pretty, but thats just how it goes.
I like AZ, and you will not find one person here that ever had an argument with me....it's not worth it. I was around 20 years ago when the only way to get info was "on the snap" mag, or BD, or get in the car and go hit the pool rooms outside your area. Trust me AZB is much much much easier!
I like AZ, and you will not find one person here that ever had an argument with me....it's not worth it. I was around 20 years ago when the only way to get info was "on the snap" mag, or BD, or get in the car and go hit the pool rooms outside your area. Trust me AZB is much much much easier!
If you think it's negative and doing harm then it's your responsibility to come around more often and a force in the drive to help this part of the world be a positive place that enhances human growth.
You are either a part of the problem or part of the solution.
You are either a part of the problem or part of the solution.
1on1pooltournys said:
Well said, 1on1
I was going to start a thread on just that subject. If the few top players that post here, and the cuemakers too, would stop and think how they are shooting themselves in the foot with negativity, it would be a much better place to visit. Don't they realize there may be someone lurking, with actual $$$$ to invest in a sponsorship, or a tournament.
It would be hard to convince anyone with money, (and smarts) based on what goes on here, that investing in pool, would be worth the aggrevation.
We can't control the rabble rouser's and s--t disturber's on here, but for God's sake, can't the pro's and cuemaker's realize how much flaming, and bashing our game, hurts any chance of ever getting it promoted, and better accepted ? What other sport do you hear the player's say, "this game sucks" ?
Dick
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Fast Lenny said:When you get on the inside of anything and behind the scenes there is a dark side and a bright side.
Your sdtatement is very true.:thumbup:
The internet has changed a lot of things, not just pool.
Those not conforming and adapting are to be left out.
Even more important is that if you are even considering that the AZ is harmful to those who lie, cheat, and steal, then maybe you are as bad as they are.
Those not conforming and adapting are to be left out.
Even more important is that if you are even considering that the AZ is harmful to those who lie, cheat, and steal, then maybe you are as bad as they are.
i seriously cant believe that this is even a topic for a thread, unless you just were looking to start a little drama yourself.
for one thing AZ cant "do good or bad". it is not a person. some pple have probably used AZ in a bad way but that doesnt make it bad.
as a vehicle far more pple have used AZ in a good way. look at the wealth of instructional material available. look a the great stories not available anyhwere else. how about the advancement of the sport? Dont yout think AZ had a significant impact in TAR's success, or helping mike janis get his tour system moving in the right direction? have you ever had the pleasure of meeting fellow AZB'ers that you would never have met otherwise? do you like the updates on tourneys happening far away for where you live?
yes mostly AZ has been used as a positive force for the sport and for us personally as well. there have been and will be negative pple here trying to do negative things. hey AZ has provided us with powerful tools here as well. try the ignore function. or just dont read/get involved in threads in those drama threads if you dont like them. you dont have to open any thread or follow it once you see where its going.
i'm sorry but i just dont see how anyone can even ask the question here that AZ has been bad for pool.
brian
for one thing AZ cant "do good or bad". it is not a person. some pple have probably used AZ in a bad way but that doesnt make it bad.
as a vehicle far more pple have used AZ in a good way. look at the wealth of instructional material available. look a the great stories not available anyhwere else. how about the advancement of the sport? Dont yout think AZ had a significant impact in TAR's success, or helping mike janis get his tour system moving in the right direction? have you ever had the pleasure of meeting fellow AZB'ers that you would never have met otherwise? do you like the updates on tourneys happening far away for where you live?
yes mostly AZ has been used as a positive force for the sport and for us personally as well. there have been and will be negative pple here trying to do negative things. hey AZ has provided us with powerful tools here as well. try the ignore function. or just dont read/get involved in threads in those drama threads if you dont like them. you dont have to open any thread or follow it once you see where its going.
i'm sorry but i just dont see how anyone can even ask the question here that AZ has been bad for pool.
brian
1on1pooltournys said:
PT,
I'm with Jay....AZB is a great place to get information; and is a valuable networking resource for people who want to learn more about all aspects of the game.
It is however, ONLY for the thick-skinned. Most of us feel that AZB will never have widespread contributions from pro's - very few can put up with the background "troll noise." It really is more for the amateur player; and for those pro's that are computer-savvy and have a very thick skin when it comes to dealing with the poorly informed internet trolls. Disappointing for us who wish otherwise; but a fact nevertheless.
every one!
Dick,
To be perfectly honest I can't remember a single sport I have been involved in that there weren't very good competitors saying the state of the sport at the moment sucked and the sport was gonna die if something wasn't done fast. When I started one sport with a worldwide organization the first thing that they wanted to do is get me to choose a side in the organizational politics. I told them I was an old hand at politics and wasn't having any. Now decades latter I just joined another worldwide group in another sport to give a friend that doesn't have internet the access to technical information that is only found on their private boards. What is the very first thing I find? Political infighting, the sport is gonna die, bias and secrecy is gonna ruin the sport!
SSDD!
Big picture, some competitors are always winners or whiners and very few won't feel whiney on occasion. Right at forty years of formal competition in a lot of different areas have taught me this. I have even seen people win and still whine because they had to work too hard to do it in their opinion! The fact that we see them doing it on the net just makes it more visible to the very tiny percentage of people that know AZB exists. Lets put things in perspective, what percentages of the US and world population have ever been to AZB? There will be a point and a heck of a lot of zeroes before the first significant number.
AZB does a lot of good in our own tiny little world but we have to keep in proportion that it is our own tiny little world. Without AZB I spent many years learning what someone can learn in weeks now. Also those of us that are interested do know more about the pool world than we possibly could otherwise but that is pretty much the net sum of AZB. I have never seen it mentioned on national or international news nor is it a major name in sports.
Hu
SJDinPHX said:
Dick,
To be perfectly honest I can't remember a single sport I have been involved in that there weren't very good competitors saying the state of the sport at the moment sucked and the sport was gonna die if something wasn't done fast. When I started one sport with a worldwide organization the first thing that they wanted to do is get me to choose a side in the organizational politics. I told them I was an old hand at politics and wasn't having any. Now decades latter I just joined another worldwide group in another sport to give a friend that doesn't have internet the access to technical information that is only found on their private boards. What is the very first thing I find? Political infighting, the sport is gonna die, bias and secrecy is gonna ruin the sport!
SSDD!
Big picture, some competitors are always winners or whiners and very few won't feel whiney on occasion. Right at forty years of formal competition in a lot of different areas have taught me this. I have even seen people win and still whine because they had to work too hard to do it in their opinion! The fact that we see them doing it on the net just makes it more visible to the very tiny percentage of people that know AZB exists. Lets put things in perspective, what percentages of the US and world population have ever been to AZB? There will be a point and a heck of a lot of zeroes before the first significant number.
AZB does a lot of good in our own tiny little world but we have to keep in proportion that it is our own tiny little world. Without AZB I spent many years learning what someone can learn in weeks now. Also those of us that are interested do know more about the pool world than we possibly could otherwise but that is pretty much the net sum of AZB. I have never seen it mentioned on national or international news nor is it a major name in sports.
Hu
IF you want AZB to be better then MODERATE it. You all ***** about what Wilson does but understand that this is ONE guy trying to wade through dozens of threads a day.
I participate in several groups in other areas of life where everyone plays nice. Why? Because the forum owners moderate it well and accept no BS at all.
Y'all complain about the ratio of crap posts to good ones then be a part of the solution and volunteer to be a moderator and be prepared to take a lot of heat.
You know how much time you spend on AZ. Give up some it to make AZ a better place. People will ONLY act like you allow them to. Allow the trolls to troll and they will.
I participate in several groups in other areas of life where everyone plays nice. Why? Because the forum owners moderate it well and accept no BS at all.
Y'all complain about the ratio of crap posts to good ones then be a part of the solution and volunteer to be a moderator and be prepared to take a lot of heat.
You know how much time you spend on AZ. Give up some it to make AZ a better place. People will ONLY act like you allow them to. Allow the trolls to troll and they will.
My theory is the pros don't have time for the internet or AZ. They're too busy actually playing pool! I remember when I used to spend every waking minute in the poolroom. No more. I have a beautiful table in my house that collects dust most days, but not my keyboard. Go figure!
As far as the trolls on here, no biggie. I've been dealing with the Mcwoofers of the world for a long time. Just because someone comes on here and talks smack doesn't mean much. It tells me more about them than anything else. The most disturbing thing is some of the inane arguments and disagreements that take place on AZ. Usually it starts over some imagined or perceived slight. Most of the time pretty silly and almost always unnecessary.
Like someone else said, if you're too thin skinned don't participate. Everyone that does will get some heat from time to time, including me.
As far as the trolls on here, no biggie. I've been dealing with the Mcwoofers of the world for a long time. Just because someone comes on here and talks smack doesn't mean much. It tells me more about them than anything else. The most disturbing thing is some of the inane arguments and disagreements that take place on AZ. Usually it starts over some imagined or perceived slight. Most of the time pretty silly and almost always unnecessary.
Like someone else said, if you're too thin skinned don't participate. Everyone that does will get some heat from time to time, including me.