AZ member screwed by Bill Stroud of Josswest

[LAlouie]

iba, do what your kind heart desires, but it's such an inappropriate expense it's almost unfathomable.

But getting back to the genesis of this thread, I'd like to mention a few things. Does anyone know how notoriously irresponsible cue makers can be. Now before any cue makers here unload on me, anyone who's had any experience in pool knows that cue makers historically have their own timetable when it comes to getting things done on time. Stroud, say what you will, has promotionally elevated his rep as an elite cue maker. IMO, he is by far the most politically involved cuemaker I know. That is to say, he always seems to have many ideas in progress, whether to promote himself or promote cue as art. Point being, this is kinda beneath him and what he does on an international scale.

Quite frankly I don't understand why he even bothered with this venture. It is so mundane for him he should never have even offered. To that, it's HIS fault.

Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.

 

[peter_gunn]

iba, do what your kind heart desires, but it's such an inappropriate expense it's almost unfathomable.

But getting back to the genesis of this thread, I'd like to mention a few things. Does anyone know how notoriously irresponsible cue makers can be. Now before any cue makers here unload on me, anyone who's had any experience in pool knows that cue makers historically have their own timetable when it comes to getting things done on time. Stroud, say what you will, has promotionally elevated his rep as an elite cue maker. IMO, he is by far the most politically involved cuemaker I know. That is to say, he always seems to have many ideas in progress, whether to promote himself or promote cue as art. Point being, this is kinda beneath him and what he does on an international scale.

Quite frankly I don't understand why he even bothered with this venture. It is so mundane for him he should never have even offered. To that, it's HIS fault.

Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.

I was second on that contest, by ONE vote :frown:
You can't imagine the pain i've been next few weeks.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

iba, do what your kind heart desires, but it's such an inappropriate expense it's almost unfathomable.

But getting back to the genesis of this thread, I'd like to mention a few things. Does anyone know how notoriously irresponsible cue makers can be. Now before any cue makers here unload on me, anyone who's had any experience in pool knows that cue makers historically have their own timetable when it comes to getting things done on time. Stroud, say what you will, has promotionally elevated his rep as an elite cue maker. IMO, he is by far the most politically involved cuemaker I know. That is to say, he always seems to have many ideas in progress, whether to promote himself or promote cue as art. Point being, this is kinda beneath him and what he does on an international scale.

Quite frankly I don't understand why he even bothered with this venture. It is so mundane for him he should never have even offered. To that, it's HIS fault.

Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.

Louie;

with all due respect, unless you were one of the approx 250 az'ers who over *months* worked very hard on a dream cue design then sweated to see if you survived each of the cuts that narrowed down the field, ultimately getting down to the final 5, then sweating the additional time it took to put them up for public voting in order to sweat some more to see if the design you liked the best would win, then, understandably, it would difficult for you to imagine just how 'invested' the participants were. And, btw, in addition to the time and effort invested, a number of participants paid for art supplies and some even paid for graphics assistance. This was a monumentally big event. The DYD thread had over 35,000 hits.

nobody asked Bill to put on such a contest, this was all of his own doing. he brought it up, set it up, held it, and has not come through with the cue he promised.

I think that if you were one of the people who actually busted their ass trying to put together a worthy design, you'd be feeling a little "rooked".

And I'd like to make one more thing clear. I still believe that Bill is going to come through with this cue and that would be very nice for mhaimi. But for me, regardless of whether or not he does come through, there will be little in the way of applause coming from me over how Bill handled all of this.

best,
brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

mhaimi did win a cue design contest. But since no one has contacted Stroud directly to find out what the cue status is, it appears that some posters want to literally organize a lynch mob and destroy the reputation that Stroud has taken a lifetime to build. It's called frontier-style vigilantism: lynch and hang 'em, then ask questions later.

where exactly are you getting that no one has contacted Bill directly because that is not correct?

also, when you say that some posters literally want to organize a lynch mob do you mean these posters have rope and are actively seeking out Bill so they can hang him?

best,
brian kc

 

[iba7467]

... And I'd like to make one more thing clear. I still believe that Bill is going to come through with this cue ...
best,
brian kc

Wanna bet???

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Wanna bet???

oh for crisssake.

what kinda terms you offering? :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:

best,
brian kc

 

[ignomirello]

Well said Brian

Louie;

with all due respect, unless you were one of the approx 250 az'ers who over *months* worked very hard on a dream cue design then sweated to see if you survived each of the cuts that narrowed down the field, ultimately getting down to the final 5, then sweating the additional time it took to put them up for public voting in order to sweat some more to see if the design you liked the best would win, then, understandably, it would difficult for you to imagine just how 'invested' the participants were. And, btw, in addition to the time and effort invested, a number of participants paid for art supplies and some even paid for graphics assistance. This was a monumentally big event. The DYD thread had over 35,000 hits.

nobody asked Bill to put on such a contest, this was all of his own doing. he brought it up, set it up, held it, and has not come through with the cue he promised.

I think that if you were one of the people who actually busted their ass trying to put together a worthy design, you'd be feeling a little "rooked".

And I'd like to make one more thing clear. I still believe that Bill is going to come through with this cue and that would certainly be very nice for mhaimi. But for me, regardless of whether or not he does come through, their will be little in the way of applause from me over how Bill handled all of this.

best,
brian kc

Brian, well said ! I agree

And if I wanted to support this by giving money (That is my right)

BTW it was a brilliant idea to get free designs

 

[iba7467]

oh for crisssake.

what kinda terms you offering? :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:

best,
brian kc

My $160 to your $55 he does not complete by 12/11/12. That's nearly 3:1 for 6 more months. I wish I had accepted the even money offer originally but I didn't want to risk your hedge.

 

[RRfireblade]

Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.

Hadn't Publisher's Clearing House been found liable for MILLIONS in class action lawsuits for not paying out on contests most people didn't even ask to be in? (Or something to that effect)

 

[Houstoer]

Hadn't Publisher's Clearing House been found liable for MILLIONS in class action lawsuits for not paying out on contests most people didn't even ask to be in? (Or something to that effect)

what PCH doesn't pay? damn there goes my retirement plans ! lol !

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Hadn't Publisher's Clearing House been found liable for MILLIONS in class action lawsuits for not paying out on contests most people didn't even ask to be in? (Or something to that effect)

In 2000, PCH settled out of court for $30 million. Most people got pennies on the dollar, the lawyers made out like bandits, and PCH absolved itself of having to admit wrong doing.

 

[Luxury]

Hmmmmm I wonder if Bill would stop being a douche if he was contacted by a lawyer?

 

[LAlouie]

And I'd like to make one more thing clear. I still believe that Bill is going to come through with this cue and that would be very nice for mhaimi. But for me, regardless of whether or not he does come through, there will be little in the way of applause coming from me over how Bill handled all of this.

best,
brian kc

Thx for the clarification about what went on. Regardless though, the thrust of my point remains. Had I known about this 'contest" I would've never wasted my time. There is no timetable with cuemakers, and major cuemakers have other things to do. A contest winner will always be pushed back in favor of a potential 10k client.

 

[TATE]

iba, do what your kind heart desires, but it's such an inappropriate expense it's almost unfathomable.

But getting back to the genesis of this thread, I'd like to mention a few things. Does anyone know how notoriously irresponsible cue makers can be. Now before any cue makers here unload on me, anyone who's had any experience in pool knows that cue makers historically have their own timetable when it comes to getting things done on time. Stroud, say what you will, has promotionally elevated his rep as an elite cue maker. IMO, he is by far the most politically involved cuemaker I know. That is to say, he always seems to have many ideas in progress, whether to promote himself or promote cue as art. Point being, this is kinda beneath him and what he does on an international scale.

Quite frankly I don't understand why he even bothered with this venture. It is so mundane for him he should never have even offered. To that, it's HIS fault.

Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.

Off topic, Louie, what is your avatar?

 

[or1pkt]

I'm curious (sorry if this has been discussed before) but what do you all think this bill stroud situation does to the resale value and collectibility of his cues? I personally am sure it s not a good thing but there are some cuemakers out there that have lied in the past and their cues are still in demand...

 

[LAlouie]

I'm curious (sorry if this has been discussed before) but what do you all think this bill stroud situation does to the resale value and collectibility of his cues? I personally am sure it s not a good thing but there are some cuemakers out there that have lied in the past and their cues are still in demand...

Absolutely ZERO affect on his cues. He deals with rich clientele/ they don't care about situations like this contest. But as I recall, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, his cues hit a ceiling several years ago. Most times when it's known that a cuemaker is retiring the value goes up. He's been talking about retiring for years

 

[LAlouie]

Off topic, Louie, what is your avatar?

It's just an avatar intended to make your eyes go batty.:wink:

 

[akaTrigger]

Louie;

with all due respect, unless you were one of the approx 250 az'ers who over *months* worked very hard on a dream cue design then sweated to see if you survived each of the cuts that narrowed down the field, ultimately getting down to the final 5, then sweating the additional time it took to put them up for public voting in order to sweat some more to see if the design you liked the best would win, then, understandably, it would difficult for you to imagine just how 'invested' the participants were. And, btw, in addition to the time and effort invested, a number of participants paid for art supplies and some even paid for graphics assistance. This was a monumentally big event. The DYD thread had over 35,000 hits.

nobody asked Bill to put on such a contest, this was all of his own doing. he brought it up, set it up, held it, and has not come through with the cue he promised.

I think that if you were one of the people who actually busted their ass trying to put together a worthy design, you'd be feeling a little "rooked".

And I'd like to make one more thing clear. I still believe that Bill is going to come through with this cue and that would be very nice for mhaimi. But for me, regardless of whether or not he does come through, there will be little in the way of applause coming from me over how Bill handled all of this.

best,
brian kc

I submitted a design, only took me about 15 mins to create. Maybe that's why I didn't win?

I'm not upset about the situation and yet I submitted a design. Even if I won, I don't think I'd be all that super upset....b/c it was a free contest. However, I do admire those that are sticking up for the winner. Goes to show we look out for each other here on AZB.

This reminds me of that instance of Mitch (I believe) who won some furniture in a raffle from the Galveston tourney. Everyone was upset at what happened (don't recall the details) but thinking of that does kind of make me reconsider that the Stroud cue design winner was promised something, and that does go a long way.

 

[cue fix]

Just my thoughts on the matter. I think we all know that cue makers like to use wood that is aged well to build a cue with. With having to find the woods needed for the cue and to get them aged enough, it might take 3 years to build the cue. I hope not. I have only met Mr. Stroud once, and that was at one of the yearly cue collector shows that was held in Park City, UT. I have heard a few stories in regards to Bill's personality, and they weren't positive. I guess it comes with being held high in regards to cue making. With that in mind, I have felt that with this cue being possibly the last cue he may make, that Mr. Stroud had the intent of having the cue ready in time for one of the cue collector shows, to show it there and possibly have the winner be there in attendance so he can present the cue to him there for a bidding farewell to cue making. This has just been my thoughts on the matter. Hope it works out.

P.S. I think the big issue here is the apparent lack of communication from Mr. Stroud to the winner of the cue. I think he could have easily contacted the winner once a month to let him know the status of the cue and some pictures to show it was being worked on. Then we wouldn't be having the issue at hand.

 

[LAlouie]

Just my thoughts on the matter. I think we all know that cue makers like to use wood that is aged well to build a cue with. With having to find the woods needed for the cue and to get them aged enough, it might take 3 years to build the cue. I hope not. I have only met Mr. Stroud once, and that was at one of the yearly cue collector shows that was held in Park City, UT. I have heard a few stories in regards to Bill's personality, and they weren't positive. I guess it comes with being held high in regards to cue making. With that in mind, I have felt that with this cue being possibly the last cue he may make, that Mr. Stroud had the intent of having the cue ready in time for one of the cue collector shows, to show it there and possibly have the winner be there in attendance so he can present the cue to him there for a bidding farewell to cue making. This has just been my thoughts on the matter. Hope it works out.

Builders stock up on their woods. There shouldn't be a wait when it comes to aged woods, and builders who have been in the business for years have years of collected woods. I don't think a builder with Stroud's rep will depend on someone else's design to build his "final cue". Furthermore it would an expensive sonofagun with maxed out ivory inlays. And if he was going to GIVE it to anyone, I would think some of his biggest wealthiest collectors would be apropos as they would have invested in Stroud the most. It would be mighty benevolent of him to give such a cue away in a design contest, but that''s not him.