AZ member screwed by Bill Stroud of Josswest

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That could make a slight difference too! :)

I'm not privy to any inside information here. I just wanted to point out that Bill's eight week claim wasn't true for him or anyone else when building something unusual or even something pretty common that they happen to not have on hand at the moment. Several cue builders have quit lately or largely quit after decades of being in business. I'd like to get my hands on their rivers of wood!

Hu

To be honest, the point of the DYD cue was supposedly, to come up with new, never done and completely original designs for cues.

Now I'm not going to comment on whether or not I think the winners design was any of those things BUT.... In no way did I think the potential winner of that contest was to be considered a 'typical' 8 week production cue. I thought it was 'assumed' the it would take special and unique methods to do something that has never been done. I would have guess it to take 2 or 3 times that of a standard 'custom' cue.

Now I agree about the behind the scenes prep to build a cue however, as being one that works with a number of very high end and reputable cue makers I think we both also know that the majority of the time of construction is done before the orders come in much of the time.

Any decent and reputable cue makers has likely a few hundred shafts hanging within a turn or 2 of completion. Forearms, butts sleeves and handles roughly sized ready to go. Some even cored already. The only reason IMO that ANY standard cue should take more than a week or 2 at most is that no cue builder is going to start and finish one cue at a time. He's going to get a number of butts assembled and ready for inlay, inlay them and get them all ready for finish. Then get them all wrapped. Then he's mostly likey going to pair, ring and finish all the shafts and all of those are going to get finished (sprayed) together as well. Maybe even back with the butts. So you might end up with a cue taking 2/3 months to finish but at the end of those 3 months he might put out anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen or more cues all ready at once.

So back the DYD cue and my real problem with it ....

Now you have a builder who at the time of the contest was SUPPOSEDLY complaining about the state of the cue building world, the processes and designs of 'today' and was SUPPOSEDLY trying to shock it back to life. In pretty plain terms slammed everyone in the business for taking too long to biuld a cue, putting out tired old done to death designs and charging too much (iirc). It seemed pretty clear trying make some kind of statement to everyone else in the business and blow smoke up his own butt.

Lets not also forget that the DYD thread followed other threads in which he had done much the same, lambasting the industry, other biulders and simply talking a boat load of $hit. Finally capping it all off with the Contest.

And then he quits.

Sells (or intends to, not all as of yet I understand) off all his equiptment, closes up shop and hits the road to get back into competitive pool. Of which it IS clear he has done.

To me its not so much about the cue as much as it is IMO, someone who got to be where he is and got everything he has from this business coming out and openly trashing it and others still in it and then utterly and completely shooting himself in the foot with like a 12 gauge shot gun and giving himself a black eye in the process all in the face of those who look up to him the most. Its like catching Santa robbing your house or the Easter bunny $hitting in your cocoa puffs. It almost makes my stomach turn.

Anyway.....

All I'd like to see is for him apologize for the things he said and the people he hurt saying it. He ought to apologize to the cue winner for making promises he obviously never intended to keep. Then I'd like to see this whole thing go away. It's bad for everyone involved and we have enough bad to overcome in the sport already. We need to get some good going....please.
 
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All I'd like to see is for him apologize for the things he said and the people he hurt saying it. He ought to apologize to the cue winner for making promises he obviously never intended to keep.

I was first around Bill in 1962 at Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas, TX. In the 50 years since then, he doesn't seem to have changed much. He still plays a strong game of pool, he's still very bright, and he's still pretty arrogant. If he apologizes to the winner of the contest, it will be the first time I have known him to apologize to anyone. If you're reading this Billy, chime in and tell these guys that my description of you is accurate!:wink:
 
I was first around Bill in 1962 at Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas, TX. In the 50 years since then, he doesn't seem to have changed much. He still plays a strong game of pool, he's still very bright, and he's still pretty arrogant. If he apologizes to the winner of the contest, it will be the first time I have known him to apologize to anyone. If you're reading this Billy, chime in and tell these guys that my description of you is accurate!:wink:

No need, I know him well enough to know your absolutely correct. :)
 
It sounds to me like his old ass needs to be making a cue instead of trying to relive his youth.
Let him relive his youth if that is what he needs to do now. But let him pay another top tier cuemaker to build the cue and he won't have to miss a beat reliving his youth.
 
Are poolplayers the most gullible group of people in the world? Stroud is reading all this and laughing.
 
I did not play the design game, I was never in the running for the prize, BUT I hope for the WINNERS sake, he gets at the very least a Joss West Cue from Bill.
 
This isn't Bill Stroud's fault. My design was laughed at and ridiculed by others in the contest and I put a hex on the winning design.

All this bad publicity is on Bill for not choosing my clearly superior design.
 
I think everyone knows people in this industry and even hired guns.

I am not saying anything but I just hope some guy isn't contracted out to do what they did to Paul Newman in the movie.

People have said they seen him shoot pool....let's hope nothing happens to him since we know where he frequents.

Pool is a sport but sometimes old school shaking up is long overdue.

:cool:
 
I think everyone knows people in this industry and even hired guns.

I am not saying anything but I just hope some guy isn't contracted out to do what they did to Paul Newman in the movie.

People have said they seen him shoot pool....let's hope nothing happens to him since we know where he frequents.

Pool is a sport but sometimes old school shaking up is long overdue.

:cool:

Do people like this really inhabit this world we live in? Let me get this straight. You're saying someone should put a hit out on a 70+ year old man and break his thumbs because he hasn't finished a cue in the appropriate time frame?

Whats the appropriate punishment for the 90 year old lady who mistakenly calls b12 instead of c12 on bingo night? Nothing less then her false teeth being shoved down her throat I would hope.

Whay rocks do these people crawl out from?
 
Do people like this really inhabit this world we live in? Let me get this straight. You're saying someone should put a hit out on a 70+ year old man and break his thumbs because he hasn't finished a cue in the appropriate time frame?

Whats the appropriate punishment for the 90 year old lady who mistakenly calls b12 instead of c12 on bingo night? Nothing less then her false teeth being shoved down her throat I would hope.

Whay rocks do these people crawl out from?

No I didn't say that.

Did you not read the entire post?

I said I hope this doesn't happen.

Again, let's hope he doesn't get injured.
 
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I know this is just a ramble, but there were innate problems with this contest to begin with. Stroud has had decades on elite experience building cues and fashioning designs. Him starting this design contest is like an ad agency starting a contest for high school students to create an ad campaign for Toyota. It ain't happening! Therefore the whole genesis of this contest was one big blustery move. Why? Who knows. One thing for sure, he wasn't getting anything out of it because his clientele and business model extend far beyond and way before AZB. This is something that would be worth it for a beginning cuemaker with no resume.

I know it's slightly OT but that's my 2 cents.
 
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No I didn't say that.

Did you not read the entire post?

I said I hope this doesn't happen.

Again, let's hope he doesn't get injured.

Anyone with a brain can see what you were insinuating. Your weak attempt at trying to cover your azz was just that. Weak.

Dom poopa said:
Pool is a sport but sometimes old school shaking up is long overdue.

That doesn't sound like someone trying to "wish" something didn't happen.
 
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AZ member scrwed by Stroud

This is not just the winner of the contest being screwed. Everyone that participated was screwed because it was just another reality show from the beginning which he knew and in our hearts we knew it.

I feel most who benefit from pool related sales are just another hustler or pool pimps. Of course not all but a lot of Strouds and not enough Mike Erwins.

Everything is buddy this and buddy that until most of the herd is bragging and building up their false reputation.

Once they are through, your participation is not needed anymore and its screw you I got mine. How many pool pimps were a regular on azb bragging and slapping each other on the back suckering in others to do the same.

Sure they do you a favor and act like your buddy. Just like a hustler that smiles and loses today so they can beat you when the stakes are higher then walk out the door laughing like Stroud.

Azb and the pool player are just a tool of the pimps in the business. How many stick around az once the buisness is over?

The actions of Stroud is not imop unique to the industry. An example is the pro pool players problem of no tour and few places to play with paypouts that are less than pitiful.

The pimps are building the amateur league systems for a new food supply and don't need the pro"s anymore. Its getting hard find a place to play without a handicap system that favors the locals.

The pro pool player is in trouble not the winner/loser of this cue. If you want to feel sorry or make excuses for someone don't feel sorry for the JOHN (you,me,and the winner of the dream cue).

Don't make excuses for the Pimp(cuemaker,instructors,pool dvd, Ebay, APA),but the one really getting screwed, the pro player(the prostitute) the one that kept on doing the same thing because the pimps told them they would make a home and take care of them if they would just do what they say and keep performing.

Mr. Strouds dream cue is nothing new to real pool world participants. Its still and will always be, just a dream.
 
How Bill Stroud is not banned is beyond me.

He deceived an entire community.

I am here to help...I guess you can call me the cue police. I made a "Bad Cue Maker's List" thread but unfortunately it was deleted.

I have already written various associations with Cue Builders and linked them to many threads on here.
 
Not exactly concise, but certainly pointed. Sounds like you're trying to excuse the pros, though.


This is not just the winner of the contest being screwed. Everyone that participated was screwed because it was just another reality show from the beginning which he knew and in our hearts we knew it.

I feel most who benefit from pool related sales are just another hustler or pool pimps. Of course not all but a lot of Strouds and not enough Mike Erwins.

Everything is buddy this and buddy that until most of the herd is bragging and building up their false reputation.

Once they are through, your participation is not needed anymore and its screw you I got mine. How many pool pimps were a regular on azb bragging and slapping each other on the back suckering in others to do the same.

Sure they do you a favor and act like your buddy. Just like a hustler that smiles and loses today so they can beat you when the stakes are higher then walk out the door laughing like Stroud.

Azb and the pool player are just a tool of the pimps in the business. How many stick around az once the buisness is over?

The actions of Stroud is not imop unique to the industry. An example is the pro pool players problem of no tour and few places to play with paypouts that are less than pitiful.

The pimps are building the amateur league systems for a new food supply and don't need the pro"s anymore. Its getting hard find a place to play without a handicap system that favors the locals.

The pro pool player is in trouble not the winner/loser of this cue. If you want to feel sorry or make excuses for someone don't feel sorry for the JOHN (you,me,and the winner of the dream cue).

Don't make excuses for the Pimp(cuemaker,instructors,pool dvd, Ebay, APA),but the one really getting screwed, the pro player(the prostitute) the one that kept on doing the same thing because the pimps told them they would make a home and take care of them if they would just do what they say and keep performing.

Mr. Strouds dream cue is nothing new to real pool world participants. Its still and will always be, just a dream.
 
Oh for eff's sake.

How many of the people who 'designed' a cue for the contest ever bought a JossWest from Mr. Stroud?

How many are now having that 'dream' cue built?

I followed the design your dream thread. I followed the first thread that lambasted Mr. Stroud for his (admittedly inappropriate) failure to follow up on his promise.

That does not mean that he stole anything tangible from anyone. If anything he taught a lot of people something valuable that they should have learned while they were still wearing short pants: If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Or maybe it is that few people are worthy of trust. I don't know, something along one of those lines.

Anybody who sits here telling me that he stole from everybody because they have wasted their time on something that wasn't going to be delivered is an idiot.

I'll break it down for you:

If you spent time on this DYD design instead of doing something that would make you actual money, you are an idiot.

If you neglected your kids to participate, you are a selfish idiot.

If you neglected your spouse, you are a greedy idiot.

If you went out and spent money on art supplies for this contest that you should have spent on food or rent, you are a financial idiot.

If you participated in this contest because you were sure your design would win, you are a delusional, egotistical idiot.

If you participated in this contest because you thought it was fun and hoped that you or someone would get a beautiful cue, good for you.

It sucks that Mr. Stroud appears to be shirking his promise to build this cue. It is too bad that some guy I have never met is not going to get a valuable cue in return for presenting a drawing of said cue. It really is too bad, but it isn't something that should be causing anyone pain. This isn't theft on a grand scale, it isn't really even anything noteworthy--some guy didn't do what he promised. End of story...

...well almost. You talk about people like Mr. Stroud abusing the poor pool player, but what happens every time any cue maker slips up? Dale Perry started making more cues so he could make more money, but dealers of his cues suddenly started making less, so suddenly he was made out to be the devil incarnate. Mr. Stroud doesn't make a free cue and all of the sudden he is a slimy snake.

All the best,

dld

First of all, you should be banned for breaking the rules:

AZBilliards Forum Rules


To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.

2nd of all, I am sure the winner would gladly pay for this cue to be built. It's not that it's free that would entice me but that it won the best design.
 
BILL STROUD - DYD = Ruined Legacy?

Happy Fall 2012.

Well, it's now closing in on 2 years since az'er mhaimi won the "Design Your Dream" contest and Bill Stroud still hasn't presented him with his dream cue. For all we know, there may not have even been one turn on the wood for this cue.

Sad that Bill whipped so many members here into a frenzy, or at least excited us, over the possibility of being chosen to have one of our designs chosen and built by him, for free.

Why hasn't he come through for the winner? Why has there been such a lack of communication? Only Bill Stroud knows the answers..

What is known is that Bill has claimed to be going out of cuemaking and was advertising his equipment for sale.

And we know he said he is recommitting himself to be a tournament player and spending much of his time on that quest.

Bill posted in a thread he started just before he began the DYD thread that it shouldn't take a cuemaker longer than 8 weeks to build a cue, start to finish. So the DYD design might take a little longer but c'mon, not 2 years.

The bottom line is that Bill, unilaterally, decided he wanted to run a contest and he has failed to keep his end of the bargain.

I think it stinks and should leave a black mark on his legacy.

At this point, I don't think my opinion of him would change any even if he were to award the cue to mhaimi tomorrow. For me, the damage is done.

How insulting. :mad:

best,
brian kc
 
Well one things for sure, It sure as hell didnt affect the value of his cues which are, IMO, some of the best playing cues on the planet. It was quite sad what he did but it is in fact time to move on. I think he's a good guy that made a scumbag mistake...we've all made them.
 
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