Azbilliards.com Professional 10 Ball Tour

Joe T

Joe T

Well-known member
Azbilliards.com Professional 10 Ball Tour​

Two $36,000 Tournaments Per Month for next 2 years​


48 Professional 10 Ball Events spread out over the years 2006 & 2007 (2 events each month) evenly spread out across the country, with 2 American 10 Ball Championships!

Each event will be limited to 64 players, $250 entry fee, $20,000 added and will be held in Billiard rooms that have at least 16 playable tables and a nice atmosphere. Each event will take only 2 days to complete with the following format.

10 Ball, Race to 4, 3 out of 5 sets, Single elimination.
Played with Chess clocks and a very high code of dress and conduct.

Saturday
Round #1 12pm, 32 plyrs,
rd2 3pm, 32 plyrs,
rd3 7pm, 32 plyrs,
rd4 10pm, 16 plyrs

Sunday
Rounds of 8 players, 4 players, & Finals at 1pm, 4pm & 8pm

Or, we save the final 4 players and ship them to an ESPN zone where they can finish the finals LIVE in the studio, twice a month. Little anticlimactic for us locally but great for us nationally!

With this format players could actual fly short flights Saturday mornings.

Sat
Round # 1, 4pm, 32plyrs
Rd2, 7pm, 32plrys
Rd3, 10pm, 32plyrs

Sunday Rd4, 2pm, 16plyrs
Rd5, 5pm 8plyrs,

Out by 8pm and the final 4 go to an ESPN zone later that week or month, obviously we or ESPN would help pay for their additional expenses.


How, Why and where’s the money coming from?

Well it may sound a little crazy at first glance but here goes. What we’re asking you to do is sit back and ask yourself if you could be one of the people that can make this happen. I know I could, EASILY.

We’re looking for 100 posters to be small fund raisers. We need each one of you to ask yourself a question.

Can I go out and get 10 friends, associates or local room owners/patrons to give $50 a month for 2 years, to help form a real Pro Tour? Or 5 people at $100.

Obviously this equals out to $50,000 per month to run our 2 events per month, plus expenses. Any extra money (if there is such a thing) will be put towards a possible players point prize fund, our national 10 Ball Championships and advertising our product.

If we can make it this far, we would then have an actual working product to offer some major sponsors. Think about it, now when we call on Coke or Pepsi to sponsor Pocket Billiards, we can offer them 2 years and 50 events that’s already up and running. Not a “ If you give us this we’ll do that plan ”. Surely that has to worth something out of their multi million dollar advertising budgets.

We can even offer our $50 a month sponsors an actual partnership or ownership in the azbilliards Pro Tour. If we do talk Coke into a million dollar sponsorship we can give that money and possibly more back to our initial supporters.

I know from experience that industry sponsors don’t like to give cash and would rather donate product. Well we’re going to take their donations and put their products in the azbilliards merchandise store where only our members can shop, at huge discounts and we’ll use the money raised there as needed but we need to have the cash required to run the events up front.


Can you do it?
Can you talk 5 or 10 people into supporting a professional pocket billiards tour at $50 or $100 a month?

Our initial tournament payouts wouldn’t be great but not far from where they’re at now and we will definitely cut costs for our players, especially the ones that wouldn’t have to leave their jobs, businesses and families on Wednesdays or Thursdays. Fly Friday afternoon or night, back late Sunday night or early Monday. This saves a lot of money at home and on hotels.

Our biweekly payouts would look something like this at first.

$36,000 Purse, $20,000 Added, $250 Entry, 50% of Field Paid, Win 1 Match you Cash!

1st $6,000
2nd $4,000
3rd-4th $2,000
5th-8th $1,500
9th-16th $1,000
17th-32nd $500

Not very impressive I know. But look what’s going on now, 4-5 day events with double the expenses and not much more of a pay out. We’re in this to promote the sport, not just make a few players a little more money.

Plus we’ll have another $10,000 a month to run the events, advertise and save for our annual Championship. Additional sponsorship money that may come in could also be allocated towards the prize fund but I recommend we take care of the product first.

What do you say? If we provide you with a summary of the tour, something to show your potential investors, would you and could you at least try to step away from the dam keyboard and go out for 1 month, simply to ask for 10 people’s commitment to such a project.

100 of us, we have thousands visiting this sight; we have over 300 that filled out Jams demographic post. Heck I won’t have to but I would even offer each of my investors a lesson a month for their sponsorship and maybe we can get a bunch of other instructors to do the same, room owners to discount the players that do support the tour and other companies to discount our members. To me this has many, many possibilities and we have the collective minds for thousands of great ideas. Let’s stop saying what should be done or what can’t be done and lets Just Do It!!!

Or tell me why it can’t be done and I’ll move on to my next grand scheme in life.

Right now, I just want to know who’s in and who’s not. We’ll save all the good ideas for later. We need 100 people to say they’ll try, then we’ll all go out on the same start date and report back with our results.

Put up or Shut up!
 
"Can I go out and get 10 friends, associates or local room owners/patrons to give $50 a month for 2 years, to help form a real Pro Tour? Or 5 people at $100.

Obviously this equals out to $50,000 per month to run our 2 events per month, plus expenses. Any extra money (if there is such a thing) will be put towards a possible players point prize fund, our national 10 Ball Championships and advertising our product."


Wow. First of all, $50 a month from 10 people does not equal out to $50,000 per month. It's actually $500, as is $100 from 5 people.

Maybe I read the original statement incorrectly, or maybe you're just extremely pathetic at basic math.
 
AceHigh said:
"Can I go out and get 10 friends, associates or local room owners/patrons to give $50 a month for 2 years, to help form a real Pro Tour? Or 5 people at $100.

Obviously this equals out to $50,000 per month to run our 2 events per month, plus expenses. Any extra money (if there is such a thing) will be put towards a possible players point prize fund, our national 10 Ball Championships and advertising our product."


Wow. First of all, $50 a month from 10 people does not equal out to $50,000 per month. It's actually $500, as is $100 from 5 people.

Maybe I read the original statement incorrectly, or maybe you're just extremely pathetic at basic math.
Click to expand...
100 people to get the 10 people to invest $50 = $50,000. That's what the plan is. Peace, John. BTW, I'm in, I like this idea.
 
Joe T

Joe,
Dave Pinkston here. I tried sending yoou a message.Please call me regarding this post. 845-565-1994 Gallery Billiards Newburgh NY.
 
No offense, but i cant see how that will happen (but i would be glad if someone proves me wrong).

50US per person per month with a committment of 24 months or so?

I like pool, and i put in more than that amount by a fat margin every month but why would 10 others do that especially if there is no direct return on their investment?

U mention 64 pple paying 250 each for entry thats 160,000. And if you can get that much why would you even need the sponsorship money from individuals. I think its a much wiser approach to just approach individual company sponsors (like restaurants and bars) at each local pitstop to sponso some change. Otherwise, i cant see how 1000 people will put in 50 US a month for a tournament they have no participation in (most of them anyways).

For 50US, I much rather give that amount to amnesty and unicef, things which I would honestly think is more deserving of money. And for those of you who dont agree with my post, pls dun think i hate pool or anything like that. I love pool..but i dun see how this 50US translates to the betterment of pple or pool..jsut to a few tournament entries.

Regarding the long term sponsorship of big corp sponsors. Thats a great plan. But taking that a step further..if thats what u want to do. why not do a 6-7 tournamnet tour as oppose to a 2 year thing and hope pple sign on.. and then offer it up for grabs the next year.

look at the san mig asian 9 ball tour. the perfect example..first year they run only a few stops this year they added more stops (i think ) with more sponsors.

But best of luck.
 
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I have met Joe a couple of times and that was enough to know he is motivated, intelligent and has some good ideas for pool,and its growth.I for one have spent 600 a year in worse ways.Knowing the little I do about Joe I would back his efforts, and encourage others to do the same.
 
TheFish said:
U mention 64 pple paying 250 each for entry thats 160,000.
Click to expand...


??,,,,64 X $250 = $16,000,,,,tried several times on my calculator,,,still only $16,000,,,??
 
racefornine said:
I have met Joe a couple of times and that was enough to know he is motivated, intelligent and has some good ideas for pool,and its growth.I for one have spent 600 a year in worse ways.Knowing the little I do about Joe I would back his efforts, and encourage others to do the same.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, Racefornine. I believe if Joe T. is exerting the effort to make this happen, then it's got a good chance of moving forward. BTW, did I meet you at Snooker's, Racefornine?

If Ray Kroc had listened to all the naysayers when he came up with an idea of a fast-food hamburger, there would have been no McDonald's! Positive-thinking people do make things happen.

Count me in, Joe T.!

JAM [Remembers when McDonald's hamburgers were 15 cents]
 
Okay 4 in, 96 to go. Seems to be a little confusioning to some.

We're asking 100 az posters to say they'll go out and sign up 10 people who will donate $50 a month. That's our $50,000 a month for 25 events per year.

I understand some would rather donate their money to charity but helping this get started you may be giving more. Not comparing us to golf, tennis, bowling or other sports but they all started somewhere and now they give bundles to charity.

It's not that hard folks, it really isn't. But it's impossible from the sidelines!

96 more positive people wanted.

IN
Rude Dog,
racetonine,
Jam,
Joe T,

Dave I'll call you this afternoon.
 
Joe T

How about having a years worth of regional tournaments first. Say one per month or more that 25% or the entry goes to the startup of the tour.
These could be 1 day events to keep costs down for the traveling guy.
Perhaps a cue company or three would give the pool room 1 cue to raffle
with all proceeds going to the tour formation.
It would be money in the bank while the others are getting sponsors (individuals not corporations) and banking those $$$$ as well. Now the
tour (which I vote would be run by you or at least started by you) would be making a little money and forming a noticeable following. The amount would not be substantial but you hit on the key. It has to be a working model
to sell to a TV company. If that the case then once the tour started there
would need to be a way to get on it or would it just be open. If its open then many many players would want o play and that would cause a jam.
OR at the $$$$ spent traveling and entering would not be that great.

Who puts in the 20k added? Would outside sponsors be used?

It takes a pretty trustworthy guy to handle the money. I think you are respected enough to lead the way.

Do you feel you would get 64 players at $250 entry per event? Maybe lower to start. I think I would start with a couple airlines as target sponsors from the beginning. Not for them to add money but rather for them to
donate discounts for players. A certain group to make it fair to the airlines.
Give them the advertising in exchange. I am sure the billiard magazines and
websites would give them some simple advertising. Afterall it billiards booms then they boom.

Maybe schedule the events regionally back to back to avoid extra plane
fare. Then players could line up exhibitions and lessons within the region.
Pool room could have two of them come in for a challenge match or
beat the Pros night. It would cut costs with some players making
long trips.

I like the conduct part but am not real hip on the strict dress code. I think
you and others could come up with an acceptable middle ground.
Why not have a clothing company sponsor the shirts? Give them a little advertising as well.

I think your on to something with having the product first. I thought the
UPA tried to put the cart before the horse. You cant be the governing body of nothing.

I like it and if the players would not support it then pool is doomed. Most
others sports established themselves and went through rougher times before
the dollars came. I would not be so concerned with dollars as much as
getting a unified tour. Now anyone can call themselves a PRO. The rest
should fall into place.

Why 10 ball?

Sorry so scattered but just some rambling thoughts after a night out and
no sleep in 31 hours.

I dont like the idea of it being an investment for the initial donators. Maybe they recieve a free entry into an event or something but the tour should
put all the money back into the tour and promoting the game.
 
Joe T said:
Or, we save the final 4 players and ship them to an ESPN zone where they can finish the finals LIVE in the studio, twice a month. Little anticlimactic for us locally but great for us nationally!
Click to expand...



Joe T said:
Out by 8pm and the final 4 go to an ESPN zone later that week or month, obviously we or ESPN would help pay for their additional expenses.
Click to expand...


Hey Joe,

I must admit I love your idea...the basic concept. I was just wondering if you have talked with ESPN about this. If so how much do they want for production cost? And where will that money come from? I know that the WPBA has to come up with a good bit of money to pay for these costs. I believe that the casinos pay for this cost directly, as they have the money. Thus, that is why most WPBA events are at casinos. I am not sure what the US Open pays, or any of the other pool events that are shown on ESPN. I further find it unbelievable that they would commit to helping pay for players additional expenses. If they have committed to that then great...I say it's about time! Again, I think you have a great concept here...I just see ESPN as being an inhibiting factor. JMHO.
 
I'm at work and just read this so I'm posting without giving myself a lot of time to think about this.... However, the 1st thing that came to my mind is "Dave & Busters" and "Jillians". Actually D&B recently bought Jillians so only one company would need to be contacted. Both places have nice tables, ample space, and key locations. It's much cheaper to fly into a bigger city which is where these places are located. Obviously the "how to" would need to be thought out and a game plan would have to be thought up but it seems to me that these would be good locations to look at.... and the company has MONEY!!!
 
Joe T said:
Okay 4 in, 96 to go. Seems to be a little confusioning to some.

We're asking 100 az posters to say they'll go out and sign up 10 people who will donate $50 a month. That's our $50,000 a month for 25 events per year.

I understand some would rather donate their money to charity but helping this get started you may be giving more. Not comparing us to golf, tennis, bowling or other sports but they all started somewhere and now they give bundles to charity.

It's not that hard folks, it really isn't. But it's impossible from the sidelines!

96 more positive people wanted.

IN
Rude Dog,
racetonine,
Jam,
Joe T,

Dave I'll call you this afternoon.
Click to expand...

Joe,
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, so please don't think I am being negative. As a player from the old MPBT, I watched in horror as the tour was sold to big money tobacco. In my book The Growling Point, I pointed out several key factors that were concerns to me (book was written in 1995) and I cited several retarded business decisions that were made in 1991-1993 that Ultimately led to the tour's demise. In 1996, I along with other players jumped ship and went to the PCA. The PCA was a tour run for the players by the players. It was a great environment, but in the end, financial matters did in the tour.

Charlie Williams started the UPA. Do a few searches on this forum and you will see that they have also made some very poor business decisions, and have had some PR nightmares with sponsors, players, and other tournaments. I can guarantee you that once you set up an event on May 1, so will the UPA. That is how they plan on ruling professional pool. They will blatantly attempt (and probably succeed) in drawing away the top players from your event, as well as sponsorship. The top players will go where the money is.

What I have always preached in all of my books when speaking of the professional tours is UNITY. That is the problem we have always had all the way back to the the late 1970's. Nobody can get along. Nobody tries to pool their resources together. EVerybody wants their own tour these days. We have the Fury Tour. We have the Viking Tour. We have the UPA. We have regional tours. What needs to occur to have someone unite these entities for the good of the sport. People have sat around for years plotting against each other, and if you get this thing off the ground, they'll plot aganst you too, just ask Bob & Eydie Romano. Instead of being united to propel the sport into the mainstream, we tend to shoot each other in the back, not realizing that when we shoot our competitors, we bleed as well. No matter how many men wearing nice suits the UPA hires, they still aren't smart enough to figure that out. That is exactly what is holding the sport back at this time.

Starting a new tour is not the answer. Unity is. I can go on and on about past mistakes made by those who came before you, do a google search on my tirades against Hopkins and Mackey that I wrote in 1998 on RSB. Years later, there is still nobody willing to talk unity within the industry. The industry has to realize that if pool wins, we all win. We have to stop putting our individual interests above the interest of the sport as a whole. We can change our image very quickly with some professional public relations moves that will bring the sport into a positive light (major fund raisers, positive press, etc). All it takes is for us to have a common goal : Elevating the game of pool, not ourselves. I publicly offered to assist the UPA and I was ignored and laughed at a few years ago. Many of the other tours are unwilling to merge into a large entity due to "wanting their piece of the pie".

My problem with your presentation is that you are asking the fans to do what the industry should be doing already. The common player or fan has already spent money on magazines, cues, cases, tables, time at the pool hall, etc. Back in 2002, I wrote an article where each pool hall or billiard related business could donate to a tour fund. It would be at the discretion of the business owner as to what percentage they would donate to this fund, as well as the billiard educational fund. The article was so well received, that one major entity in our sport sent the article back (critiqued and marked with red pen everywhere) citing how it was obscene of me to expect this from anyone.

First of all, we need to understand that we have an image problem and a unity problem, not a money problem. Diagnosing and treating the correct symptoms is important. If we can all get on board, I would be more than happy to present a unity agreement to all of the mini-tours and act as an UNPAID advisor. I doing so, we can elect a public relations committee and donate a portion of our tour proceeds to selected charities. We can also start promoting our tours in major media markets, not out of the way casinos. Hiring a a media-relations person is essential. The mentality of "what's in it for us" or "what's in it for me" has to stop. Eventually the returns will come.

The addition of any new tour will only separate and divide the sport even more than it is now. I doubt very seriously you will get much support with a 10 ball tour. A modest amount of research would have told you that. 9 ball, or other familiar games would be the way to go here. Also, investors invest seeking returns. What would be the return on my $100 investment, besides knowing that I am a supporter? I'm not afraid to lead this charge either. I have been very outspoken about this for years. Feel free to contact me regarding this at any time. My number is 386-208-0011.
 
Blackjack said:
Joe,
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, so please don't think I am being negative. As a player from the old MPBT, I watched in horror as the tour was sold to big money tobacco. In my book The Growling Point, I pointed out several key factors that were concerns to me (book was written in 1995) and I cited several retarded business decisions that were made in 1991-1993 that Ultimately led to the tour's demise. In 1996, I along with other players jumped ship and went to the PCA. The PCA was a tour run for the players by the players. It was a great environment, but in the end, financial matters did in the tour.

Charlie Williams started the UPA. Do a few searches on this forum and you will see that they have also made some very poor business decisions, and have had some PR nightmares with sponsors, players, and other tournaments. I can guarantee you that once you set up an event on May 1, so will the UPA. That is how they plan on ruling professional pool. They will blatantly attempt (and probably succeed) in drawing away the top players from your event, as well as sponsorship. The top players will go where the money is.

What I have always preached in all of my books when speaking of the professional tours is UNITY. That is the problem we have always had all the way back to the the late 1970's. Nobody can get along. Nobody tries to pool their resources together. EVerybody wants their own tour these days. We have the Fury Tour. We have the Viking Tour. We have the UPA. We have regional tours. What needs to occur to have someone unite these entities for the good of the sport. People have sat around for years plotting against each other, and if you get this thing off the ground, they'll plot aganst you too, just ask Bob & Eydie Romano. Instead of being united to propel the sport into the mainstream, we tend to shoot each other in the back, not realizing that when we shoot our competitors, we bleed as well. No matter how many men wearing nice suits the UPA hires, they still aren't smart enough to figure that out. That is exactly what is holding the sport back at this time.

Starting a new tour is not the answer. Unity is. I can go on and on about past mistakes made by those who came before you, do a google search on my tirades against Hopkins and Mackey that I wrote in 1998 on RSB. Years later, there is still nobody willing to talk unity within the industry. The industry has to realize that if pool wins, we all win. We have to stop putting our individual interests above the interest of the sport as a whole. We can change our image very quickly with some professional public relations moves that will bring the sport into a positive light (major fund raisers, positive press, etc). All it takes is for us to have a common goal : Elevating the game of pool, not ourselves. I publicly offered to assist the UPA and I was ignored and laughed at a few years ago. Many of the other tours are unwilling to merge into a large entity due to "wanting their piece of the pie".

My problem with your presentation is that you are asking the fans to do what the industry should be doing already. The common player or fan has already spent money on magazines, cues, cases, tables, time at the pool hall, etc. Back in 2002, I wrote an article where each pool hall or billiard related business could donate to a tour fund. It would be at the discretion of the business owner as to what percentage they would donate to this fund, as well as the billiard educational fund. The article was so well received, that one major entity in our sport sent the article back (critiqued and marked with red pen everywhere) citing how it was obscene of me to expect this from anyone.

First of all, we need to understand that we have an image problem and a unity problem, not a money problem. Diagnosing and treating the correct symptoms is important. If we can all get on board, I would be more than happy to present a unity agreement to all of the mini-tours and act as an UNPAID advisor. I doing so, we can elect a public relations committee and donate a portion of our tour proceeds to selected charities. We can also start promoting our tours in major media markets, not out of the way casinos. Hiring a a media-relations person is essential. The mentality of "what's in it for us" or "what's in it for me" has to stop. Eventually the returns will come.

The addition of any new tour will only separate and divide the sport even more than it is now. I doubt very seriously you will get much support with a 10 ball tour. A modest amount of research would have told you that. 9 ball, or other familiar games would be the way to go here. Also, investors invest seeking returns. What would be the return on my $100 investment, besides knowing that I am a supporter? I'm not afraid to lead this charge either. I have been very outspoken about this for years. Feel free to contact me regarding this at any time. My number is 386-208-0011.
Click to expand...

GREAT post, Blackjack, and right on the MONEY! [pun intended] :p

History does have a way of repeating itself when it comes to "professional organizations."

I think that any NEW idea is worth the effort(s). With insights from seasoned players like yourself and others with expertise in various areas like Joe T., I remain optimistic and look forward to seeing this concept come to fruition.

About the MBPT, I'm just catching up with its history and have spoken to several in the know about its demise. Interesting to hear the opinions on both sides of the fence.

JAM
 
JAM said:
GREAT post, Blackjack, and right on the MONEY! [pun intended] :p

History does have a way of repeating itself when it comes to "professional organizations."

I think that any NEW idea is worth the effort(s). With insights from seasoned players like yourself and others with expertise in various areas like Joe T., I remain optimistic and look forward to seeing this concept come to fruition.

About the MBPT, I'm just catching up with its history and have spoken to several in the know about its demise. Interesting to hear the opinions on both sides of the fence.

JAM
Click to expand...

The big things that occurred were in 1991-1993:

World Team Billiards - this fiasco was a giant dump in the bucket. Tour stops were sacrificed and only a few players (if any) benefited from this. Mackey planned on having teams in major cities that would compete against each other. Teh players were to be salaried. Never Materialized. Nonetheless, 3 tour stops were dropped from 1993 season. The World Team Billiards thing was a deal with Meucci, and Team America never made int into the final rounds. After that it was a commercial flop. It was won by Team Phillipines, and was never done again. Like I said, a dump in the bucket - Fluuuuuushhhhhhh.

WorldWide Collectibles - This was a giant flop as well. The tour spent a lot of money on these collectible trading card sets with no return at all. Once again - Fluuuuuuusssshhhhh.

1995- the demise:
They then went through a long list of rules changes (break boxes, outlawing jump cues, this and that) it all got pretty stupid really quick. In 1993, several ranked players were bumped from the world championships to allow players from the World Team Billiards event to make it an "International Event". The joy on my face watching Irishman Shawn McDermott shoot 9 ball with a brass ferruled snooker cue and get waxed 9-0 is an emotion I will always treasure. Donuts are best served with coffee.

Mackey decided to go outside our industry and attract a big time sponsor. When RJ Reynolds "bought" the tour, they had a new set of rules, a new set of pay outs. The payouts were stupid, and would only benefit the top 10 players. You must also realize that Allen Hopkins jumped ship from Mackey as well. I won't go into that, but remember, Mackey sold the tour. He would like everyone to believe that he got us sponsorship, but that was not the case. He sold the tour to Camel. This was also around the time that big money tobacco was going through all kinds of problems. They decided to try and promote us like we were car racing. Well it didn't take them long to figure out that they would lose money with pool. So Mackey.... rotflmao... tries to strike a deal with Phillip-Morris - and gets caught!!!! So much for big money tobacco and pool. They pulled the plug, the industry was not about to work with Mackey, so what was learned here?

By then, many players had abandoned the sinking ship that was known as the MPBT, Camel Pro Tour, whatever. Sorry I'm typing and laughing.

In the end, the players were the ones that got stiffed. The representation of the players went only so far. When Allen realized that, he resigned and rightfully so. But it left the MPBT in the hands of Mackey, and by that time, many of us didn't care anymore.

Today it is as if the MPBT was a big puddle. Someone came along and stomped the puddle, and you now have all these little tours, the UPA being the big daddy splash. It is important to realize that we do not need outside sponsorship. If it is a collective effort, with everyone behind the advancement of the game of pool, everybody wins. More fans, more exposure, equals more money. It works for golf, but for some reason it doesn't work with pool. For years we blamed it on the image of gambling. Why is it I can watch 16 hours of poker on TV everyday? Is it really gamblers that have trashed our sport, or were we scapegoats for the men in the nice suits? Something to think about.
 
First of all, Joe T is credible with me. I've met him and know him to have the best interests of the game here. His fundraising call here evidences his burning passion to see pro pool succeed and his willingness to contibute his time, efforts and money toward the realization of that success. Joe's got class.

Still, I find myself aligned with Blackjack Dave here.

In 2004, I posted:

One constant in the history of men's pool is that seemingly every player that has taken the initiative to try to better their sport by participating in the formation and sustaining of a new tour has been controversial and has had to withstand a lot of undeserved abuse.

Ask a Ray Martin, Pete Margo, Allen Hopkins, and other founders, about the controversial formation and subsequent administration of the PPPA in the 1970's. Ask CJ Wiley about the formation and subsequent administration of the PCA in the 1990's. They'll all tell you they had to listen to a lot of crap in the early days.

For some reason, the men have, all too often, failed to show admiration for and respect to players that have taken the initiative to form new tours to try to better their sport, despite the fact that each has created income opportunities in the game.

Blackjack said it best, men pro poolplayers have never been unified, and until they discontinue their long and pronounced history of undermining the efforts of each other and not being supportive and appreicaitve of those at the helm of their sport, they'll pay a price for it.

If this kind of money could be raised, I'd rather see it land in the hands of the UPA, rather than in the hands of those who choose to compete with it.

The principle of "divide and conquer" doesn't and has never worked when it comes to men's professional pool.
 
sjm said:
Blackjack said it best, men pro poolplayers have never been unified, and until they discontinue their long and pronounced history of undermining the efforts of each other and not being supportive and appreicaitve of those at the helm of their sport, they'll pay a price for it.

If this kind of money could be raised, I'd rather see it land in the hands of the UPA, rather than in the hands of those who choose to compete with it.
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I don't think that's the answer. The UPA has had several opportunites over the years to respond to what I have said in these forums (and they HAVE read my offers) and yet they choose not to respond. They have PR problems and a bully mentality, which would disqualify them from my list at this point in time. If the UPA publicly stated that they would work with the smaller tours instead of competing with them (like its a fair fight?) then I would be more than happy seeing them leading the charge. Right now, they are the problem, not the solution. Charlie Williams has the right idea, but some of the methods that the UPA uses to compete with event dates and locations is exactly what is wrong with pool. If the boards of the UPA, WPBA, Viking Tour, Fury Tour, Joss Tour, combined their efforts to promote the game of pool as a unified entity, it would merge ideas, money, players, etc. Egos must be put aside, and a working realtionship and business partnerships must be formed. Someone needs to lead the charge. The BCA won't.

I would also try to get the assistance of TAP, APA, and the BCA league systems. There is a lot of great ideas floating out there, as well as a lot of support and money, but its going in 40 different directions. Think of the billiard world as a balloon. When all this energy gets drected in 40 directions, the balloon keeps popping. Its just common sense.
 
Blackjack said:
I don't think that's the answer. The UPA has had several opportunites over the years to respond to what I have said in these forums (and they HAVE read my offers) and yet they choose not to respond. They have PR problems and a bully mentality, which would disqualify them from my list at this point in time. If the UPA publicly stated that they would work with the smaller tours instead of competing with them (like its a fair fight?) then I would be more than happy seeing them leading the charge. Right now, they are the problem, not the solution. Charlie Williams has the right idea, but some of the methods that the UPA uses to compete with event dates and locations is exactly what is wrong with pool. If the boards of the UPA, WPBA, Viking Tour, Fury Tour, Joss Tour, combined their efforts to promote the game of pool as a unified entity, it would merge ideas, money, players, etc. Egos must be put aside, and a working realtionship and business partnerships must be formed. Someone needs to lead the charge. The BCA won't.

I would also try to get the assistance of TAP, APA, and the BCA league systems. There is a lot of great ideas floating out there, as well as a lot of support and money, but its going in 40 different directions. Think of the billiard world as a balloon. When all this energy gets drected in 40 directions, the balloon keeps popping. Its just common sense.
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Points well taken, Dave, and I'm not singling out UPA as an organization, just recognizing it as the organization having the greatest access to the top players right now. If raised, the money would belong in the hands of any organization to which the players, in unity, committed themselves to.
 
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