Azbilliards.com Professional 10 Ball Tour

[TheOne]

I didn't think the original idea for getting 1000 (100x10) people to donate $50 a month for two years had much chance of happening but it was great to see such passion and ideas. Then I thought the next post about having smaller events and putting money towards a tour was much better. Then I agreed with black jacks post and its obvious where the problem is. (isn't debate great!

There is money in pool, its one of the most popular passtime in the world. The problem is structure and the people running it, or like blackjack said a lack of unity. I beleive it recently happened in the UK between the two tours but I think the EPBF stepped in and they agreed to get along.

Why don't some of you guys with the passion "rise up"! and demand changed. A summit of pool tour leaders Get a thousand top pool players signatures and get people talking for the better. Go on strike, boycot events if they don't start listening to / and putting the interest of the players first.

It seems that there are some great tours in the US, joss, UPA etc.. Maybe your not that far away from what you want? Offer your services to run a UPA 10 ball tour if they agree to work together?

Can't we all just get along! )

 

[Blackjack]

Why don't some of you guys with the passion "rise up"! and demand changed. A summit of pool tour leaders Get a thousand top pool players signatures and get people talking for the better. Go on strike, boycot events if they don't start listening to / and putting the interest of the players first.

The interest of the players should not be first. The interest of the game of pool should be put first. In most cases, the players are just as greedy as the business people. They men in the suits flash the $$$, and the players follow the money. Any type of Unification process would have to be completed in the following manner:

Address the tours on the benefits of unifying
Address the sponsors on the benefits of supporting the tour
Address the players on the benifits of loyalty

On top of that, we need to tell the world that we (the world of pool) exist. That is where a media relations plan would be benficial. I'm not saying create twelve subcommittees, I'm saying that we need to plan how to get more exposure, more fans, and more recognition. Instead of competing with each other, we need to compete with other recreational sports. Like I said earlier, when the UPA shoots another tour or event, they end up bleeding as well (Re:2001 U.S. Open vs UPA). In all cases, we all lose when things like that happen.

Right now there is a lot of chaos and backstabbing. In speaking with Eydie Romano last week, I found that the first week of August has 3 separate major events. The Orlando Open, The WPBA US Open, and now the UPA has scheduled an event as well. Later that month, the Joss Tour Finale will occur, after a rescheduling nightmare due to what I described earlier. This is ridiculous and counterproductive. Can you imagine if all the resources and energy was combined?

 

[TheOne]

The interest of the players should not be first. The interest of the game of pool should be put first. In most cases, the players are just as greedy as the business people. They men in the suits flash the $$$, and the players follow the money. Any type of Unification process would have to be completed in the following manner:

Address the tours on the benefits of unifying
Address the sponsors on the benefits of supporting the tour
Address the players on the benifits of loyalty

On top of that, we need to tell the world that we (the world of pool) exist. That is where a media relations plan would be benficial. I'm not saying create twelve subcommittees, I'm saying that we need to plan how to get more exposure, more fans, and more recognition. Instead of competing with each other, we need to compete with other recreational sports. Like I said earlier, when the UPA shoots another tour or event, they end up bleeding as well (Re:2001 U.S. Open vs UPA). In all cases, we all lose when things like that happen.

Right now there is a lot of chaos and backstabbing. In speaking with Eydie Romano last week, I found that the first week of August has 3 separate major events. The Orlando Open, The WPBA US Open, and now the UPA has scheduled an event as well. Later that month, the Joss Tour Finale will occur, after a rescheduling nightmare due to what I described earlier. This is ridiculous and counterproductive. Can you imagine if all the resources and energy was combined?

OK, silly me I assumed they where the same, but I forgot eveyone doesnt think the same as I do

Well snooker in the UK has hired a top exec to shake up snooker and they have actually shipped out some of the old players who where beleive it or not harming the sport and holding it back. You need players running the sport to a certain extent but you also need a few peofessionals whether it be marketing men or whatever to, as you say "tell the world"!

But the only way you are going to get to that stage is by the players sorting there own house out first. Prob never happen if the majority of players are as you say.

One of the things I think the two tours agreed in the UK where to share world qualifying spots and not to schedule events on the same dates. Now obviously this is much easier in the uk given its size and just two tours but should that be what everyone puts there effort into?

I think there is even talk now of combining the tours in the UK into one large tour for the benifit of all. Whether it will happen or not I have no idea - but its good to see them recognizing the potential and seeing the problems early.

From what I have seen the US has a fantastic pool scene with some of the best tournments and venues in the world - it just needs somebody or a group of people to grab it by the scruff of the neck and I convinced you would have a product (tour) that would be the envy of the world

 

[racefornine]

Hi JAM,

Yes we did meet in Providence.Ruth and I had a great time up there.It was a pleasure meeting you.Thanks again for the pic.

 

[mjantti]

Can't we all just get along! )

Apparently, not !

 

[jjinfla]

This did come out on the first of the month - right?

April Fools Day?

Jake

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I've reflected on all the things said in this thread.
I think that Blackjack has some very valid points but i also feel that Joe has a pretty good idea.
It was mentioned, that the UPA would most likely compete by setting up one of their own tournaments, i don't really think that that should be a concern at this time.

Joe is talking about 2 events a month, and i don't think the UPA is capable of competing with that without losing money.

I don't see that many conflicts with other possible events. Aside from MAJORS, you have regional tours that are very specific. Joe should only concern himself with which region he's aiming at, and dealing with that, and if it is too much, there might be room for a MERGING of ideas should people be open to bettering the game.

Plus, there is so much concern about the TOP players showing up.

Who cares! Sure they go where the money is, but i'm quite sure that there would be lots of other players....semi pros and shortstops who might come out to fill in their shoes.

And given time, i'm sure that if it WERE a success, that other added monies and sponsorships could possibly come along, and jack up the prize money so that Top players would definitely have to ponder abandoning some UPA events, in light of possible softer fields with the same money at stake.

Everything good usually starts out small and takes TIME.

Regardless, it is a good idea, and YES there are a lot of possible obstacels, but i wish Joe the best of luck cause i know i'd put the schoolbooks away and start practicing, if these were to take off. (i can always study later)

SUPERSTAR

 

[wahcheck]

The future of Pool

The interest of the players should not be first. The interest of the game of pool should be put first. In most cases, the players are just as greedy as the business people. They men in the suits flash the $$$, and the players follow the money. Any type of Unification process would have to be completed in the following manner:Address the sponsors on the benefits of supporting the tour
Address the players on the benifits of loyaltyOn top of that, we need to tell the world that we (the world of pool) exist. That is where a media relations plan would be benficial. I'm not saying create twelve subcommittees, I'm saying that we need to plan how to get more exposure, more fans, and more recognition. Instead of competing with each other, we need to compete with other recreational sports. Like I said earlier, when the UPA shoots another tour or event, they end up bleeding as well (Re:2001 U.S. Open vs UPA). In all cases, we all lose when things like that happen.

Right now there is a lot of chaos and backstabbing. In speaking with Eydie Romano last week, I found that the first week of August has 3 separate major events. The Orlando Open, The WPBA US Open, and now the UPA has scheduled an event as well. Later that month, the Joss Tour Finale will occur, after a rescheduling nightmare due to what I described earlier. This is ridiculous and counterproductive. Can you imagine if all the resources and energy was combined?

Hi Blackjack,

I am impressed by your knowledge of where men's organized pool has been, is at, and who knows where it's going? I would like to know your view of what happened when the women's organization broke off with the men's and went off and became what they are today...We see that the women have some measure of success...being on TV regularly and all....If the women had been allowed to participate fairly in the organization (as per their contention?) way back when, would you see men's pool and the pool game in general elevated to a point where men pros could make a living these days? In other words, how much of a factor for the demise of men's pool can be attributed to the departure of the women in their organization? I'm just wondering about this when you speak of unification...Although I've read a lot of negatives about the Camel Pro Tour, I remember how happy I was that it came about, and I really enjoyed each tour stop as it happened...I wish something like that would happen again; even with all the bugs and glitches that such things seem to come with.....Thanks for your input, Blackjack.....

 

[Jersey]

Unity

I have to say that desperation to save the sport of Pocket Billiards, which we all love and enjoy, makes good people got out on limbs to help make it better...i.e. The Romano's, Joe T. etc...and G-D Bless them, but I agree 100% with BJ Dave S. We don't need MORE tours...we need 1! Tour...we need a unification of rules and formats...maybe that one tour could be on a tier system...simular to MLB, where Top Pro's, Strong AM's and the solid League players could all exist within a 'Identical', rule and format structure. This way we would have a built in teaching and talent development structure...you drive go carts, dirt cars and busch before NASCAR...there are plenty of Models out there for Billiards to emulate...as well as examples of the same type of problems...Indy & CART for example...1 Tour, education and talent development, marketing and public relations all with one goal in mind...the betterment of Billiards in all its forms...

my 2c-

 

[Blackjack]

Hi Blackjack,

I am impressed by your knowledge of where men's organized pool has been, is at, and who knows where it's going? I would like to know your view of what happened when the women's organization broke off with the men's and went off and became what they are today...We see that the women have some measure of success...being on TV regularly and all....If the women had been allowed to participate fairly in the organization (as per their contention?) way back when, would you see men's pool and the pool game in general elevated to a point where men pros could make a living these days? In other words, how much of a factor for the demise of men's pool can be attributed to the departure of the women in their organization? I'm just wondering about this when you speak of unification...Although I've read a lot of negatives about the Camel Pro Tour, I remember how happy I was that it came about, and I really enjoyed each tour stop as it happened...I wish something like that would happen again; even with all the bugs and glitches that such things seem to come with.....Thanks for your input, Blackjack.....

The best thing the WPBA did was break away from the men's tour. The PCA and WPBA joined forces in Santa Rosa for a real fun week. I never had so much fun at event before or since. This was the tournament where CJ played Vivian in the finals. It was a lot of fun, and a joint effort by both organizations to put on a great event.

Do I believe that players can survive on their income? Yes I do. There are golfers you never heard of that are making fat six fugure incomes while scraping the barrel of the PGA tour rankings. That's because the PGA has a deep payout structure. How would you like to have a bad round of golf and get paid thousands of dollars for just showing up?

Pool will never be as popular or as successful as golf until they realize that the game must be marketed properly. We missed the boat in the late 1980's. That momentum has long since passed. Why should we wait around for another movie to come out? Look what happened last time. We're still committing the same errors. The Color of Money came out, it was successful, we experienced a boom in popularity and a boom in the marketplace. What does anybody have to show for it? Nothing but memories. Just ask Keith. The Asian market opened up in the 1980's & 1990's and the industry lost focus. The truth is that the individual companies that make up the billard industry make a killing in overseas markets - and they are making money regardless of what happens in professional pool - male or female.

The failure of men's pool occurred when Mackey went outside the industry for a sponsor. This can also go back to 1992-93 when he decided to use Diamond Tables as the official tour table. Mackey burned a lot of bridges, and the players paid for it. Back in February of 1998, I challenged a clown from Meucci who said that I and all the players should be grateful for everything Don Mackey did for the Pro Tour.
The Post

This anonymous posting was made by someone in Meucci who said I should be thankful that the tour was in shambles. Here is the quote:

It is a shame people like David A Sapolis are not thankful, as are most
of the players in the Pro Billiards Tour. Maybe more companies might be
interested in spending their $$$ if they recieved less spewing in their
faces unnecessarily.

Unnecessarily? This was done about the time everything was pretty much gone, and those responsible were trying to blame the demise on the players. The failure of the tour was simple:

In trying to find success with a big name sponsor, the tour isolated itself away from the industry entirely. When Tobacco realized they couldn't make money with professional pool, they decided to divert their attention to amateur pool (tavern leagues where people smoke and they can market their products effectively). Mackey didn't understand that their main concern was to sell tobacco, not pool. Tobacco didn't mind tossing money our way, as long as we sold cigarrettes. Bad move by Mackey and the entire MPBT board. When Mackey got caught schmoozing a competitor (Philip - Morris) it was pretty funny to me. Where is Mackey now? Has he ever apologized? He never will because he blames the demise on the lack of marketability (players). The truth is that many within the industry did not find it appealing to work hand in hand with a tobacco company amidst all of the congressional hearings, lobbying etc, that was in the news at the time. In another RSB thread
Ref Mackey & MPBT
I basically give a run down of what happened. In the end Mackey was left holding a bucket of crap (the men's tour) he couldn't sell to anybody. Jimmy Reid, myself, Grady Matthews have all been very vocal about this, as well as others.

On the other hand, the WPBA decided to market itself in the proper direction. They have done a great job. They have mass appeal and a really good, solid core foundation. The players are united, as well as their board. They are well supported and sponsored by the industry. The UPA in recent years has used the WPBA as a model structure in their organization. That's a smart move. Now if they can only stop bullying the smaller tournaments by scheduling their events at the same time (after the fact) I'll place a star on their forehead. Until then, they remain as the problem, not the solution.

 

[racefornine]

I just got off the phone with Joe T.He said he would be online around 6pm.While we are posting he was running drills.Think I will go practice some.

 

[frankncali]

Blackjack

I agree about the unity part but IMO you just cant get unified without a
product. This is the UPA's problem. From what I understand ( i could have it wrong) the UPA does not or does not want to put on events. They would like to be the PGA of pool. Theres the PGA and then the PGAtour. They are different.
If for a year or so we played regional events and kept gaining money towards
a viable product then unity could happen. The one part of Joes idea I dont like is that there would not be Pros. These events would be open events.
But the players actually earning Pro status could come down the road.

I here what you are saying about unity but it would be nothing more than a club. I dont think we want to take away the Fury, Viking and Pechuar tours.
Nor the Joss tour or mens FL tour. They are great and should provide action
for the aspiring Pro not the actual Pro. These events Joe would like to put together would give the unified group a stage while keeping intact the
regional level events. Under that there would be the monthly, weekly and amatuer events.
In Joes tour the different pool leagues could be used as well. While no one from those ranks would(probably not) be able to win an event maybe they
could gain an entry through a local or regional tour. The player gets a shot
at playing with the big boys.
I think even with yourself being out of playing pool for a while you can name the top players. Those are the guys that need to get aboard Joes idea and
once theres enough $$$ for the 2 years of events they should resign from the
UPA and play for two years. If the players dont play the events then theres
no viable product.

Money is the problem in pool. Sponsors dont see a return on their money.
Players cant make a living traveling playing for the low money. Promotors cant make money because pool players wont come to watch pool.
Money is needed for unity and a product.
Here in LA they had the UPA Tour event which was advertised just a little better than a drug sale. However locals got the word and theres a pretty good bit of League players and non league players in the LA area.
Hardly anyone came to see the event. If pool players wont come then why would the general public.
IMO alot of it was the UPA's fault. Thats when I was told they were to be a governing body not a tour. Here they could have promoted the event by having the players go around to different areas and play. They could have arranged challenge nights or promotional nights in league areas or at
prominent pool rooms. They did nothing.
I also believe that the players need to give a little to get a little. Maybe they have to do some of the appearances for free or for cheap. Maybe they
take a little less payout at times. BUT only if they can see the whole picture.
Joes Tour takes that into consideration.
Take Keith. If he saw two years worth of good events and the definite possibility of a future I think he would be more likely to come aboard and take
a shot at it. But until theres a viable tour there can not be unity. If we take
away the regional events then that takes away the events for the mass
majority of players. Pros represent about 5% of all pool players.

I do think that perhaps you and Joe and some others can get together and
meet in the middle. I do think Joes idea is the right direction and not unifiying
the other tours.

 

[Muxy]

APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!!!?

I know Joe Tucker wants 9ball out and 10-ball in, but i still say it is a joke.

 

[frankncali]

Blackjack #2

Post more of the history of the past tours. Not gossiping but the straight dope for some of us that dont know.

I remember ESPN wanting the men and women to play together and Mackey shot that down. I heard it with my own hears from him that he was not going to give in to what ESPN wanted to do. I heard talk about different
formats like teams and scoth doubles and things like that.

I did not know about the World Teams idea.

Whats your thoughts on Team Pool?

I have been for it for a while and think its a great idea.

A group could easily identify the top players and come close to a ranking even if there were large bunches that were considered even.
Then you only need to get 6-8 sponsors to sponsor a team. Salaries for the players and cheap cheap advertising for the companies. Each location
would get one or two events versus the other teams and then a championship. The players would need to do promotional work for the sponsors. After a solid season or two I think the "product" would be there.
IMo people would root for a team more than an individual.
There would need to be a draft by the sponsors. Maybe have one knowledgeable pool individual per sponsor help the spondor with the draft.

That also gives players something to work towards. Making the Pro ranks or the Professional Billiards League. More sponsors could come in with franchises
etc. Marketing would be easier for a team. I know I would pick a favorite team just like other sports and follow them.
IMO team pool is exciting. The Mosconi Cup proves that. Event he players feel the pressure and anxiety of watching and playing for thier teammates.

Just a sidenot but the most exciting event I ever went to was a tournament
in Vegas that was ball in hand if you missed. It was incredible and exciting.
Maybe a new format other than the traditional ones would work.

A ghost tournament where playrs play the ghost in rounds. A best of "x" amount of games with each player getting a chance to match the other one.
If theres a tie then its Suddendeath Ghost. It would add drama and spectators would get to see fun pool.

Traditionalist would hate it but every game/sport has evolved over the years
to reach the public. Remember the four corners basketball games. Who would watch that now. In golf match play used to be the tournament of choice but now it stroke play for TV and fans.

Hopefully one day pool will be pulled together and the players will be on aboard. Its a very difficult game to master and many people have been
bitten by the pool bug.

 

[JAM]

I agree about the unity part but IMO you just cant get unified without a
product. This is the UPA's problem. From what I understand ( i could have it wrong) the UPA does not or does not want to put on events. They would like to be the PGA of pool. Theres the PGA and then the PGAtour. They are different.
If for a year or so we played regional events and kept gaining money towards
a viable product then unity could happen. The one part of Joes idea I dont like is that there would not be Pros. These events would be open events.
But the players actually earning Pro status could come down the road.

I here what you are saying about unity but it would be nothing more than a club. I dont think we want to take away the Fury, Viking and Pechuar tours.
Nor the Joss tour or mens FL tour. They are great and should provide action
for the aspiring Pro not the actual Pro. These events Joe would like to put together would give the unified group a stage while keeping intact the
regional level events. Under that there would be the monthly, weekly and amatuer events.
In Joes tour the different pool leagues could be used as well. While no one from those ranks would(probably not) be able to win an event maybe they
could gain an entry through a local or regional tour. The player gets a shot
at playing with the big boys.
I think even with yourself being out of playing pool for a while you can name the top players. Those are the guys that need to get aboard Joes idea and
once theres enough $$$ for the 2 years of events they should resign from the
UPA and play for two years. If the players dont play the events then theres
no viable product.

Money is the problem in pool. Sponsors dont see a return on their money.
Players cant make a living traveling playing for the low money. Promotors cant make money because pool players wont come to watch pool.
Money is needed for unity and a product.
Here in LA they had the UPA Tour event which was advertised just a little better than a drug sale. However locals got the word and theres a pretty good bit of League players and non league players in the LA area.
Hardly anyone came to see the event. If pool players wont come then why would the general public.
IMO alot of it was the UPA's fault. Thats when I was told they were to be a governing body not a tour. Here they could have promoted the event by having the players go around to different areas and play. They could have arranged challenge nights or promotional nights in league areas or at
prominent pool rooms. They did nothing.
I also believe that the players need to give a little to get a little. Maybe they have to do some of the appearances for free or for cheap. Maybe they
take a little less payout at times. BUT only if they can see the whole picture.
Joes Tour takes that into consideration.
Take Keith. If he saw two years worth of good events and the definite possibility of a future I think he would be more likely to come aboard and take
a shot at it. But until theres a viable tour there can not be unity. If we take
away the regional events then that takes away the events for the mass
majority of players. Pros represent about 5% of all pool players.

I do think that perhaps you and Joe and some others can get together and
meet in the middle. I do think Joes idea is the right direction and not unifiying
the other tours.

Wow. Another great post. Between Blackjack, SJM, and FranknCali, there is an abundance here of food for thought.

The independently promoted events and regional tours give the BEST bang for the buck for an aspiring pool player and/or a player who just wants to play pool (IMO). The level playing field is kind of nice, too.

One European player recently stated to me that he did not think he would attend the upcoming BCA Open because the expenses would exceed his pool budget. Expenses are what keep some high-caliber pool players from making the rounds on the tournament trail. Low payouts and huge traveling expenses are a very real problem.

I've seen Joe Tucker in action behind the scenes, and he knows how to make this happen, but he cannot do it alone. Having been behind the scenes myself in smaller venues, I think that no matter what rules or format comes forth, it will not please everybody. That's a given.

Personally, I'd really like to see this take off, and I am definitely in.

JAM

 

[Joe T]

Okay I’m back, not too much negativity that’s good. Not too many volunteers, that’s bad. Black Jack, you must be a pretty good typist, I stink, click, click, click. I read over everything in your posts, as well as the others and the 2 main issues seem to be.
We don’t need another tour, we need unity and we the players or fans shouldn’t be the ones doing it.

I’ll start with the unity. I totally agree, 110% and I apologize to any UPA or regional tour fans that thought I wanted to go up against those tours. That was not my intention. I just assumed we could all go out, get our 10 sponsors or partners together and then say here ya go to the UPA, you’ve now got 25 events per year to use as a product to market. And I would probably like to add a stipulation that they use all the regional tours as minor league partners and treat them with the utmost respect.

Another one of my intention was not to try and start a get rich quick scheme, surprised nobody threw the word pyramid at me! When I went to post this idea, my wife said to me “what if somebody steals the idea” and I said “I hope it works for them, then we’ll have a real tour”. I just want to see an actually working model, 20-40 events per year up and running and yes, all under one roof.

Mike Janis had this very good idea of uniting all the regional tours so he could present a better product to potential sponsors outside the industry. This totally made sense to me when we discussed it 3 years ago at the Valley Forge expo. I don’t know what happened. Mike’s probably out directing an event as we speak but hopefully we can get somebody to contact him and maybe he can fill us in on that idea.

I’m all for unity, I’m a member of the UPA, Joss, Viking and soon to be FL pro tour.

Now for our subject of who’s job is it?

Maybe it’s not our job maybe it is the industries responsibility. But like Dave said, they don’t need us right now, they’re making their money elsewhere AND I don’t feel like sitting around, waiting for somebody (our industry) to do what should or could be done. Maybe, if we started this project ourselves, some of those industry people might look over their shoulder with curious eyes and wonder if they should get in now, while it’s affordable?

And if there is some way or something else I could do to get our industry leaders to help us that is easier than just going out and getting my 10 sponsors at $50 bucks a month (which I could do from home, on the phone, in one day), tell me what it is and I’ll probably do it. Well it doesn’t have to be easier but something within reason.

Alright, we’re right on track. 500 views and 5 volunteers. At this pace we just need 10,000 views to get our 100 can do people. That sounds about right, 1% can do and the other 99% don’t agree, can’t or won’t. People, take a small, small chance once in your life. Just say okay, on June 1st I’ll try for 30 days to find 10 $50 a month sponsors.

By the way I shot a 66 today, 4 under my average. Oh yeah, why 10 Ball? Go to my website and you can read why and get some free tips.

 

[frankncali]

I am not sure that most of us have your connections to get a sponsor.
I for one wont call someone my sponsor if I am not guaranteeing their
participation.
I do believe you can get people to put up $50 per month however.

How do you feel about a period of time of regional events where a portion
comes out and go towards the tour. IMO it might generate a movement of sorts for the $50 donors.

Whats the current thoughts by the Pros about the UPA?? Are they
happy? Would they want a new organization?


Okay
Pencil me in for my $50 per month starting in June as well. I can not promise the 10 others but I can talk it up.
If this thing is serious then before then or in June it needs exposure and
a planned start date for events. BD, AZB will need to step up with some
space and get the idea out there.
Over the next few months Vegas will be a hotbed for amatuer pool.
Maybe thats a place to start getting the idea out there and getting it in action.
The BCA trade show is forthcoming as well.

Another thought for $$$ is to hit up cuemakers. I know they have it tough already but with as many as there are now many each could donate
1 cue that can be sold for $1000. It needs to be worth at least $1000 and each cue should be recorded or marked so that it would be collectable.
If 50 cue makers donate then thats $50k to use towards keeping the tour going. Some cuemakers could use it as a showcase for their company. Others could be supporting the sport that serves them. I would guess
50 cue collectors could be found for the cues easily. I also think
AZB and BD (and others) would allow a feature of each cue to be placed out there for the cuemakers exposure. Not a detailed history of the company but
a nice article on the maker and the cue with pictures.

I think you have a good idea and have the experience, connections, and
respect to make something out of the idea. Whether people come on board is different story. It all works in theory.
Maybe start with one event per month. 11 and a championship event. Perhaps the championship one gets picked up for TV. I think players should have to earn their way to the championship however and it not be Open.
Even if its a smaller field. As someone mentioned maybe then if its a small
group it could be at ESPN Zone or another venue. A true championship.

 

[Blackjack]

Okay I’m back, not too much negativity that’s good. Not too many volunteers, that’s bad. Black Jack, you must be a pretty good typist, I stink, click, click, click. I read over everything in your posts, as well as the others and the 2 main issues seem to be.
We don’t need another tour, we need unity and we the players or fans shouldn’t be the ones doing it.

I’ll start with the unity. I totally agree, 110% and I apologize to any UPA or regional tour fans that thought I wanted to go up against those tours. That was not my intention. I just assumed we could all go out, get our 10 sponsors or partners together and then say here ya go to the UPA, you’ve now got 25 events per year to use as a product to market. And I would probably like to add a stipulation that they use all the regional tours as minor league partners and treat them with the utmost respect.

Another one of my intention was not to try and start a get rich quick scheme, surprised nobody threw the word pyramid at me! When I went to post this idea, my wife said to me “what if somebody steals the idea” and I said “I hope it works for them, then we’ll have a real tour”. I just want to see an actually working model, 20-40 events per year up and running and yes, all under one roof.

Mike Janis had this very good idea of uniting all the regional tours so he could present a better product to potential sponsors outside the industry. This totally made sense to me when we discussed it 3 years ago at the Valley Forge expo. I don’t know what happened. Mike’s probably out directing an event as we speak but hopefully we can get somebody to contact him and maybe he can fill us in on that idea.

I’m all for unity, I’m a member of the UPA, Joss, Viking and soon to be FL pro tour.

Now for our subject of who’s job is it?

Maybe it’s not our job maybe it is the industries responsibility. But like Dave said, they don’t need us right now, they’re making their money elsewhere AND I don’t feel like sitting around, waiting for somebody (our industry) to do what should or could be done. Maybe, if we started this project ourselves, some of those industry people might look over their shoulder with curious eyes and wonder if they should get in now, while it’s affordable?

And if there is some way or something else I could do to get our industry leaders to help us that is easier than just going out and getting my 10 sponsors at $50 bucks a month (which I could do from home, on the phone, in one day), tell me what it is and I’ll probably do it. Well it doesn’t have to be easier but something within reason.

Alright, we’re right on track. 500 views and 5 volunteers. At this pace we just need 10,000 views to get our 100 can do people. That sounds about right, 1% can do and the other 99% don’t agree, can’t or won’t. People, take a small, small chance once in your life. Just say okay, on June 1st I’ll try for 30 days to find 10 $50 a month sponsors.

By the way I shot a 66 today, 4 under my average. Oh yeah, why 10 Ball? Go to my website and you can read why and get some free tips.

Joe
In reference to the UPA treating the other tours with respect, they haven't done that yet. Although you say you are not going up against them, if you are a separate entity of them - then you are against them. The UPA has long wanted to be the dominant tour, and they will sabotage your event to prove it. As a member if the UPA you should know that. If you are not going to compete with them, then join forces with them.

Frankincali - I have always been forthright and honest about the downfall of the MPBT. There is no rumor or gossip in any of the posts I have put in this thread. Its pretty much on the mark and embarrassing to those involved in it directly. Several of us have been very outspoken about these issues, even when it was going on. If some of what happens seems ridiculous, believe me - it was. Also, the problem isn't MONEY. It's unity. Like I pointed out in my earlier post, the industry has the money - it's just not being used to promote the sport. We have everybody running in different directions and we are wondering why we can't get anywhere. Everybody wants to start a new tour and then fix the unity problem LATER. When does "later" get here? Until we focus on the unity first and foremost, we'll keep making the same mistakes over and over. If I seem a bit passionate about this, understand that I clearly saw the fall of the MPBT years before it actually occurred. When I spoke up in 1993, many people laughed and thought I was over-reacting. A few years later it wasn't so funny.

 

[sjm]

Alright, we’re right on track. 500 views and 5 volunteers. At this pace we just need 10,000 views to get our 100 can do people. That sounds about right, 1% can do and the other 99% don’t agree, can’t or won’t. People, take a small, small chance once in your life. Just say okay, on June 1st I’ll try for 30 days to find 10 $50 a month sponsors.

Joe, this isn't so much about taking a chance as it about deciding how to direct the dollars most of us ALREADY DO spend in support of pool. Over the years, I've spent a lot of money in support of the game, most of it as either a) a fan attending pro tournaments, b) a sponsor of some professional players, including a three year sponsorship of a pro on the PBT from 1996-99, c) a sponsor of local exhibitions between top local pros, or d) a benefactor of amateur pool in my local area.

If, for the sake of argument, I could raise $12,000 (10 people x $50 x 24 months), why should I use it to fund a new tour rather than to sponsor one or more players, fund local exhibitions, or support amateur pool? Please recognize that those of us who ALREADY DO spend money on pool have some tough choices to make. Ultimately, the question comes down to who deserves access to the money that the game's benefactors contribute.

Joe, this isn't about taking a chance, it's about making a choice, and the choice isn't that cut and dried.

 

[Joe T]

Joe, this isn't so much about taking a chance as it about deciding how to direct the dollars most of us ALREADY DO spend in support of pool. Over the years, I've spent a lot of money in support of the game, most of it as either a) a fan attending pro tournaments, b) a sponsor of some professional players, including a three year sponsorship of a pro on the PBT from 1996-99, c) a sponsor of local exhibitions between top local pros, or d) a benefactor of amateur pool in my local area.

If, for the sake of argument, I could raise $12,000 (10 people x $50 x 24 months), why should I use it to fund a new tour rather than to sponsor one or more players, fund local exhibitions, or support amateur pool? Please recognize that those of us who ALREADY DO spend money on pool have some tough choices to make. Ultimately, the question comes down to who deserves access to the money that the game's benefactors contribute.

Joe, this isn't about taking a chance, it's about making a choice, and the choice isn't that cut and dried.

I'm quite aware and happy that there are many people like yourself out there spending money, supporting the sport and I do appreciate it. I'm trying to round up 100 of you guys because you have what it takes to make things happen but out on your own it's hard to make a dent. What if you were potentially our 100th volunteer? Would you rather raise that money and give it to 1 or 2 players or help provide us with the finishing touch? I know if there were already 99 of us committed and we were looking for just 1 more person, we would have had it today at least 99 times.

Right now I'm not asking for peoples money. I'm asking for them to say I'll go out with the proper info and try to get my 10 people lined up. Just trying to see if 100 people are willing to try to do that. And if the answer turns out to be yes, then we all go out and try it and we'll either fail, succeed, come close or learn something from trying. I think there's 100 of us here that could make it happen or at least come pretty close. Can I add you to the list?

How did Amway start? The APA? I think it was a couple of pool players in a bar writing on napkins, How about Bass fishing? Anybody know anything about that organization?