AZBilliards Cue Build off cues revealed
- Thread starter ftgokie
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Really wasnt a winner or loser..some were liked more than others. When I had the cues, there were people that liked cue #1 and none of the others, a person liked cue #2.....and so on....really it was all over the place.
I am getting all the feedback put together and will post wich cue was the favorite overall. Once I get the cues back to me, I will do a final review of the cues and case and post the final results.
My intentions behind this was to get a cue from a cuemaker and test it out and get it into a pool players hands that has never heard of that particular cuemaker. Take Vasilios, and Sliprock for instance...I had never heard of them before this, and I am betting alot of you hadnt either.....now, their name is out and it is my hopes that this brings them some business.....
As I have stated before, I wouldnt hesitate to order a cue from each and every make involved as long as they stuck with my specs.
Thanks Sir-(sugartree cues) for all your contributions !!!!!!
I think it was just the curiosity of not knowing,who made the cue. It did play super! The cue put the angle ,speed and spin on the ball,very well. Thank you Sir for helping us all out!!!! (the testers). I think most of us wanted to know who was going to deliver a cue,and didn't!!! I thought Manny wanted snake wood pts, into a African black wood front ,with ivory joint, butt cap with 400 inlays- or something of that nature. Ha ha I know thanks to all . personally you should have been able to stay silent- mark
I think it was just the curiosity of not knowing,who made the cue. It did play super! The cue put the angle ,speed and spin on the ball,very well. Thank you Sir for helping us all out!!!! (the testers). I think most of us wanted to know who was going to deliver a cue,and didn't!!! I thought Manny wanted snake wood pts, into a African black wood front ,with ivory joint, butt cap with 400 inlays- or something of that nature. Ha ha I know thanks to all . personally you should have been able to stay silent- mark
Thanks for the comments
I'm glad you liked the cue. As for Manny, aint no kid needs a cue like that :lmao: Once he becomes a world champ, we can talk it over. And I have no doubt in his ability to become such.
No feedback
I am one of the ones who didn't give feed back. When I got the cues I didn't get but one night to actually play with them. I know I could have kept them longer but felt an obligation to keep them moving along.
The one night I did play with them I had my favorite but still didn't feel qualified to give everyone my opinion. When I play with a new cue it generally takes me a week or more of steady playing with it to decide if I like it.
So long story short is I really didn't want to give any false opinions of any cue maker who had taken the time effort to participate in this.
So I apologize.
Thanks for including me, Mike
PS I think Eric would be a very good friend to have.
I am one of the ones who didn't give feed back. When I got the cues I didn't get but one night to actually play with them. I know I could have kept them longer but felt an obligation to keep them moving along.
The one night I did play with them I had my favorite but still didn't feel qualified to give everyone my opinion. When I play with a new cue it generally takes me a week or more of steady playing with it to decide if I like it.
So long story short is I really didn't want to give any false opinions of any cue maker who had taken the time effort to participate in this.
So I apologize.
Thanks for including me, Mike
PS I think Eric would be a very good friend to have.
Klink, that was not directed at you. You helped alot by making the review sheets and giving me some feedback on them. I know you were pressed for time and all, so again, that was not meant for you. There were a couple of people the cues went to and I asked them repeatedly for thier reviews and they offered absolutely nothing. So now, my trust for them is not where I would like it. If they would have said, I am not gonna offer any feedback, or stick your feedback where the sun doesnt shine, at least I would have gotten something...but my asking for the feedback from them just went ignored.......oh well, its water under the bridge
I appreciate your help in the build off Klink!
Shawn
Hey Shawn, not sure if Rob in Rochester conducted his trials yet, or even sent back the cues. I said I would post the results of the reviews, and lost track of time. I updated the Buildoff Thread I started. Sorry for the delay.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=190244&page=2
Again, thanks for taking your time and efforts running this buildoff. Will you have a standard design for the next buildoff, such as a design each on would have to follow, that way its similar for each? Have you contacted cuemakers yet? Maybe try to start it now and have them meet up at a big event, such as for the Super Billiards Expo or BCA Vegas of next year?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=190244&page=2
Again, thanks for taking your time and efforts running this buildoff. Will you have a standard design for the next buildoff, such as a design each on would have to follow, that way its similar for each? Have you contacted cuemakers yet? Maybe try to start it now and have them meet up at a big event, such as for the Super Billiards Expo or BCA Vegas of next year?
Thanks HeLLFiSH.....well, now everyone has heard of B&D Custom Cue. And I agree with you on Sliprocks cue #4. I didnt like the way the linen wrap felt, but that is what this was about. He can take our feedback and make his wrap nice and slick now, if he chooses to do that. Sliprock did have a nice hitting cue.
The sneaky pete, I really liked it. I had the cue in my possession for about 3 months and got to play with it quite a bit. I really like that cue. It felt good in my hand, was straight as a laser beam...and everyone I let try it out liked it. The only thing I would change for MY particular taste would be to have a brass pin instead of the G10 pin..I think the added weight of the brass would put a touch of weight foreward and also would have made the hit a touch more solid.....but, with that being said, I would buy that cue as is
I am gonna post a final review of each and every cue, post pics of them, and review the case and post pictures as well when I get the cues back.
When all the reviews come in they should be posted in a separate thread.
The C.M.s that opted out should be listed. I wouldn't want a cue from somebody who gives their word and then reneges.
kudos to Eric for what he did.
Ive been watching him even when he was in the service and talking about making cues.
The C.M.s that opted out should be listed. I wouldn't want a cue from somebody who gives their word and then reneges.
kudos to Eric for what he did.
Ive been watching him even when he was in the service and talking about making cues.
To all who feel affected, I owe a giant apology. I built the 5th cue. I apologize mostly to the other cuemakers and hope they can understand my position & purpose.
Toward the end of the logistical planning, several of the builders "suddenly" decided they couldn't send cues. One even just quit communicating instead of offering a reason. This left Shawn standing with his pants down, showing his ass to the world. He had put in a ton of time & effort to make it happen, even giving several time extensions to the builders. I felt bad for him & I tried helping him in the only way I know how. I began looking for cuemakers. Only one cuemaker agreed, which was Wes Hunter, but he only agreed on the condition that I would as well. I was kind in a tough spot & chose the lesser of two evils. I would help Shawn, a friend, even if it meant taking some heat for it myself. Wes & I literally had days to build our cues & we each did the best we could given the time we had to prepare. I don't want to speak for Wes, but given as much time as the rest, i'm sure each of us could have provided something better for everybody. I thank him for helping me. It essencially was me asking a friend for help to help another friend. He wasn't happy about the short notice & only did so because I pulled the friend card on him. Thank you again, Wes.
Most regretably, I was supposed to stay out of it. I was only supposed to referee & assign numbers. I am very much sorry to everybody for getting involved. I did the duty I said i'd do and I did it with absolutely no bias. If anything, I tried to be sure my cue had no extra frills anywhere of any kind that would pursuade bias. I wanted to remain anonymous because I had nothing to gain nor lose. I didn't want anybody wanting to order a cue from me because they liked the tester, and me have to tell them no. That kinda defeats the purpose. So I thought it would be best to remain anonymous to avoid any hurt feelings or misled testers. As I see now, my fears of having to speak up have become apparent. I knew i'd take some heat, but it's worth it to me in trade for helping a friend. What i'm not ok with is Shawn taking heat for me. He never knew until testing was completed. He wasn't happy about me remaining anonymous & didn't see anything wrong with me building a cue, but honored my wishes. Him taking heat for this is why I am posting this now. He was simply covering my ass the way I tried covering his ass. It's what friends do. So again, I offer my most sincere apology. I hope you all understand. If not, well I guess it's ok to hate me.
As for my cue, give it to Manny Perez. He's the son of 9ball, Hector Perez, an AZ member. The kid is an aspiring player and I have agreed to give him a cue, but wasn't fast enough to get it to him before his BEF tourney. He gave all of his saved up tourney winnings to Ashley Nandrasy so she could go compete in the WPBA Open next week. So i'd like for the cue to either go directly to him, or sell the cue in an auction or raffle & give 100% proceeds to him & i'll continue building his cue. Either is fine by me. That kid is deserving. Manny, hopefully you get to the big show
One last time, i'm sorry to anybody who feels affected. I hope I never offended anybody.
QBuilder, you have done the honorable thing and owned up to being the maker of cue #5. As I said in many posts, it was my favorite cue, and the favorite of most of the reviewers in my location. The fact that you built this cue in such a short time is amazing.
That said, I think it was unethical to pretend to be an unbiased observer when you were not. I see absolutely nothing in any of your comments to indicate that you were anything other than very professional in all your efforts and commentary, but the appearance of bias tainted this whole effort and tarnished the name of your good friend.
You appear to have had the best of intentions here, helping out Shawn when he needed it. That is admirable and you are indeed a true friend. But your poor judgement in this instance has had an opposite result.
I'm very glad that you came forward and explained this situation. You were forthright, you took the hit and cleared Shawn's name, and I admire you for that. I also think you're a damned fine cuemaker and would feel lucky to own one.
There is a few thing that should be added to the review. We had a scheduled delivery date to meet. We had specific directions to fallow on how the cues were built. Each builder should post their thought on how this went over and what they thought of the cues.
Overall the build off went smooth. I have to compliment the people that were responsible for their safe keeping. It was a big responsibility once the cues were delivered and setting up the players to test them. I got to be that guy and I didn't realize what I was getting into. I was very happy when the next person in line PM'ed me to say he received them and they were safe.
Great job people.
I have one complaint. The cues were to be plain. No rings, no fancy wood. The testers that commented about how plain the cue were didn't listen to the rules. When I had the cues the players were expecting nice custom cues. I explained that they were built to play! Not fancy and judge the quality of the work not the wood. Shafts are an exception.
Overall the build off went smooth. I have to compliment the people that were responsible for their safe keeping. It was a big responsibility once the cues were delivered and setting up the players to test them. I got to be that guy and I didn't realize what I was getting into. I was very happy when the next person in line PM'ed me to say he received them and they were safe.
Great job people.
I have one complaint. The cues were to be plain. No rings, no fancy wood. The testers that commented about how plain the cue were didn't listen to the rules. When I had the cues the players were expecting nice custom cues. I explained that they were built to play! Not fancy and judge the quality of the work not the wood. Shafts are an exception.
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I don't want my cue sold. When I tested the cues I didn't like the way mine played. I told ftgokie to keep it for the troubles as long as he never sells it. If not send it back to me and I'll put it in the round file.
There is a reason I don't want my cue sold.
I built a cue that I was proud to let anybody test it. I shipped it on time and the box never showed. Eric received part of the box with no cue. The cue was destroyed in the mail. You can't believe what the post office did to my box. They cut around my shipping label and put that part of the box in a Priority envelope. Eric was smart and sent that envelope back to me without opening it.
After realizing my cue didn't make it I started a new cue. This cue was built with wood I though would stay straight and I glued it together as fast as 5 minute Epoxy would dry. This cue represents what I can throw together in a few hours.
There is a reason I don't want my cue sold.
I built a cue that I was proud to let anybody test it. I shipped it on time and the box never showed. Eric received part of the box with no cue. The cue was destroyed in the mail. You can't believe what the post office did to my box. They cut around my shipping label and put that part of the box in a Priority envelope. Eric was smart and sent that envelope back to me without opening it.
After realizing my cue didn't make it I started a new cue. This cue was built with wood I though would stay straight and I glued it together as fast as 5 minute Epoxy would dry. This cue represents what I can throw together in a few hours.
Guys, I will say this. Scott Gracio went above and beyond the call in order for us to have a cue. Even though this cue was "thrown together" the cue is a very solid player. Scott could have been like the other 2 cuemakers and just said screw it and just cut off communication. He stood behind what he said and he delivered. Even though he may not feel his cue is the best, just think of what his 1st cue would have been like. It is very unfortunate that the USPS had this mishap with his cue, but I am thankful he stepped up to the plate at crunch time and delivered. I will be most proud to tell anyone that asks about a cuemaker that Scott is among the absolute best!!! Thank you Scott for practically "pulling a cue out of your ass"
I am sorry to dissappoint you. I think it should be known that Shawn had no idea I built a cue. I am the only one who knew who built & sent cues, until the end when Shawn asked me to reveal the names. There should not be any tarnishing on his name. He did everything he said he'd do & he made it happen. He never recieved a dime for any of his efforts nor asked anybody for it. As for bias, there was none & I assure you of that fact. The only bias I had was not wanting to see his efforts fail because he had entrusted some builders that left him hanging. He or I could easily blurt their names & stir lots of crap that doesn't need it, but we aren't that kind of people. Had he known that I built a cue, he'd likely have refused or made it public. So please do not think that he had any knowledge or involvment in any of my actions.
I'm glad you liked the cue. It wasn't much but it helped make the project succeed. I thank all of the builders who did participate. I would also like to say one thing about one of the builders, now that I can show bias. The B&D cue was exceptionally contsructed and clean, or at least it was very nice when brand new. For a newer builder, that cue impressed me. All the cues were nice & i'm sure were very tough to judge, but this one stood out to me because it was a newer & lesser known builder but the quality was up there with much more experienced names.
First off, there shouldnt be any slinging of the poopage :thumbup:. This was supposed to be a fun thing, and seriously, who cares who made which cue? I mean really, dod it really matter? This was supposed to get some cuemakers cues out there and let people try them out. And I think it did just that. This was never meant to be whos cue is better than whos. I understand that there is competition between builders, and thats ok, but each cuemaker went in to this with a positive attitude.
I dont have to clear my name for any reason.....period! I did this for fun, and I think thats what it was....please dont ruin this by thinking there were ulterior motives in this. So I dont know where that was coming from and it is dissapointing that it was mentioned....but really, it doesnt matter. I am honest, and will never mislead or try and cheat anyone...period!
As far as Eric Crisp, he told me he would not make a cue and didnt want any part of it. I had absolutely no idea he made a cue for this until me and my family went to visit him around March of this year. I wanted to let everyone know he was involved when the names were revealed, but he asked me not to, and I was going to honor his request....because thats what you do, friends or not. The reason he built a cue for this is because the 2 cuemakers that pretty much had a cue built for this, and at the last second just cut off all contact...I was in a bind, and we were gonna be 2 cues short. Eric stepped up to the plate and made a home run as far as I am concerned......Thank you Eric for doing what you did. We could have done this without you and Wes, but I dont think it would have been as fun. Eric shouldnt be looked down upon in any way, shape or form for doing what he did...if anything, he should be looked up to by the cuemakers out there that have shady business practices.....Eric is as good as they come, and you will never hear a bad word come from my mouth about him. Hell, I dont have not 1 bad word about ANY cuemaker involved in this..they are all TOP NOTCH in my book!!!
I am not trying to be mean when I say this and it will probably be taken the wrong way, but John Biddle, I dont care if you think my name was tarnished in this...it really doesnt matter to me. I did everything I said I would do, I didnt try to hide anything. I honestly feel if my name is tarnished, it is just with you, and I am ok with that, I am sure I will survive.
It is kinda funny that when you try and do something positive and fun, people start in on the poop slinging parade.....thats ok, there will always be people like that, and its people like that that I have learned to just let them say what they want and then go on about my business and not think any more of it.
This has never been done, I learned alot by doing this. It will definately be alot different next time...I hope this was as fun for everyone involved as it was for me.
Shawn Smith
I dont have to clear my name for any reason.....period! I did this for fun, and I think thats what it was....please dont ruin this by thinking there were ulterior motives in this. So I dont know where that was coming from and it is dissapointing that it was mentioned....but really, it doesnt matter. I am honest, and will never mislead or try and cheat anyone...period!
As far as Eric Crisp, he told me he would not make a cue and didnt want any part of it. I had absolutely no idea he made a cue for this until me and my family went to visit him around March of this year. I wanted to let everyone know he was involved when the names were revealed, but he asked me not to, and I was going to honor his request....because thats what you do, friends or not. The reason he built a cue for this is because the 2 cuemakers that pretty much had a cue built for this, and at the last second just cut off all contact...I was in a bind, and we were gonna be 2 cues short. Eric stepped up to the plate and made a home run as far as I am concerned......Thank you Eric for doing what you did. We could have done this without you and Wes, but I dont think it would have been as fun. Eric shouldnt be looked down upon in any way, shape or form for doing what he did...if anything, he should be looked up to by the cuemakers out there that have shady business practices.....Eric is as good as they come, and you will never hear a bad word come from my mouth about him. Hell, I dont have not 1 bad word about ANY cuemaker involved in this..they are all TOP NOTCH in my book!!!
I am not trying to be mean when I say this and it will probably be taken the wrong way, but John Biddle, I dont care if you think my name was tarnished in this...it really doesnt matter to me. I did everything I said I would do, I didnt try to hide anything. I honestly feel if my name is tarnished, it is just with you, and I am ok with that, I am sure I will survive.
It is kinda funny that when you try and do something positive and fun, people start in on the poop slinging parade.....thats ok, there will always be people like that, and its people like that that I have learned to just let them say what they want and then go on about my business and not think any more of it.
This has never been done, I learned alot by doing this. It will definately be alot different next time...I hope this was as fun for everyone involved as it was for me.
Shawn Smith
Az cue shoot-out
"I am not trying to be mean when I say this and it will probably be taken the wrong way, but John Biddle, I dont care if you think my name was tarnished in this...it really doesnt matter to me. I did everything I said I would do, I didnt try to hide anything. I honestly feel if my name is tarnished, it is just with you, and I am ok with that, I am sure I will survive". SHAWN
Shawn: I think you did a stand up job and I told you early on that this takes balls and, unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished. As for those who criticize you (and all the cue makers who participated) for doing what they don't have the balls to do TS and just consider the source.
Denali Cues maker of cue #3 which Melissa Little (the only pro player to test the cues) deemed "BEST OVERALL".
"I am not trying to be mean when I say this and it will probably be taken the wrong way, but John Biddle, I dont care if you think my name was tarnished in this...it really doesnt matter to me. I did everything I said I would do, I didnt try to hide anything. I honestly feel if my name is tarnished, it is just with you, and I am ok with that, I am sure I will survive". SHAWN
Shawn: I think you did a stand up job and I told you early on that this takes balls and, unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished. As for those who criticize you (and all the cue makers who participated) for doing what they don't have the balls to do TS and just consider the source.
Denali Cues maker of cue #3 which Melissa Little (the only pro player to test the cues) deemed "BEST OVERALL".
Thanks Bob, seriously....I almost had to call the cops to drag her off your cue...she really liked it.
Its ok, I can take the heat for someone complaining. You cant please everyone. I had fun and was honored to be able to test each cue out..
Shawn, I think maybe you are taking mistakingly his words out of context. He was counseling me about putting you in a position to where you were catching heat, not saying you did anything to deserve it. His words were not foul nor untrue. I made a mistake in trying to do something nice, and it inadvertantly backfired by focusing undue heat on you. That was the point he was making. I think Mr. Biddle & everybody is more than happy with everything you have done. He was just making a statement about my lapse of better judgement causing hardship for a friend.
I know it's hard for backwoods okies like you to comprehend complex conversation, so I think he'll understand the miscomm. LOL J/K seriously, tho, i'm pretty sure it was me he was scolding, not you. I was just posting a response to ensure nobody had any misunderstandings of you being involved.
I know it's hard for backwoods okies like you to comprehend complex conversation, so I think he'll understand the miscomm. LOL J/K seriously, tho, i'm pretty sure it was me he was scolding, not you. I was just posting a response to ensure nobody had any misunderstandings of you being involved.
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