Babe Cranfield

[cardiac kid]

Pat Howey was on my radar way back when but we never met. As part of the upstate NY pool scene, he could hardly be more qualified to comment on Crane vs. Cranfield, so you have to take it very seriously when he says that Cranfield had as much or even more skill than Irving.

Stu,

I'm slightly biased but .... During his prime playing years, I feel Pat played the game of 14.1 as well as anyone from Rochester. If he had chosen to play full time rather than work a full time job and raise a family, he would have been among the elite of the game.

Irv was a tough taskmaster to those few with whom he'd practice. Pat, Mike Sigel, Ernie Pavone, Gil Finale and a couple others had the great fortune to be Irv's foils. From his days in his own room through his final years playing in the front window at NYRA, Irv was a local institution.

Both are sorely missed in Rochester.

Lyn

 

[sjm]

Stu,

I'm slightly biased but .... During his prime playing years, I feel Pat played the game of 14.1 as well as anyone from Rochester. If he had chosen to play full time rather than work a full time job and raise a family, he would have been among the elite of the game.

Irv was a tough taskmaster to those few with whom he'd practice. Pat, Mike Sigel, Ernie Pavone, Gil Finale and a couple others had the great fortune to be Irv's foils. From his days in his own room through his final years playing in the front window at NYRA, Irv was a local institution.

Both are sorely missed in Rochester.

Lyn

Yeah, I wish I'd met Pat, of whom I'd heard so many good things. I'm not familiar with Ernie or Gil, but would love to hear something about them.

Wasn't so bad here in the NYC metropolitan area, though, where I had the pleasure of getting to watch Jack Colavita, Steve Mizerak, Ray Martin, Allen Hopkins, Petey Margo, Ernie Costa, Mike Eufemia, Gene Nagy, Tom Jennings and so many other world beaters. New York State really did have two distinct 14.1 havens.

Ah, those were the days my friend --- walking into a pool hall and seeing most people playing 14.1, it's a distant but sweet memory.

 

[azhousepro]

Received a note for this thread from a non-member via email...


Dear “Wedge”—

I have a memory of Babe Cranfield which goes back to 1966 or 1967. I attended the World’s Straight Pool Championship in NYC as a youth. Other than Lassiter and Crane and Balsis, I didn’t know who any of the players were, having recently arrived from the Midwest. The tournament was, as I recall, in The Commodore Hotel. I began to watch a match in which “Arthur Cranfield” was playing, whoever “Arthur Cranfield” might be. I still remember that the referee was Ed “Cue Ball” Kelley—not the Ed Kelly who is around now but the man who could snap the cue ball with his fingers and make three-cushion shots, and whose real name may have been Zingale, if I am not mistaken. So Arthur Cranfield, whoever he is, finally busts loose from a safety and gets a pattern that you can see your way through. He shoots a ball and draws back about six inches to perfect position, but his face turns into a scowl. He points with his cue tip on the table to a spot about three inches away from where the cue ball stopped. He’s not happy. He shoots the next ball and goes into a rail and back and gets nearly perfect position. He frowns. He shakes his head. He has missed his position slightly. He gets down and shoots the next shot. Once again, he is dissatisfied and looks in complaint at Kelley for sympathy. Kelley stares back impassively. I think to myself, “Man, this guy never gets his position.” “Arthur Cranfield” makes the shot, which is virtually a hanger anyway.

And so it went for about thirty minutes. When “Arthur Cranfield” finally got up to something like eighty-two balls in his run and was still going strong and his chagrin over his position had continued after every shot, I said to myself, “According to him, this guy is NEVER going to be in position!”

 

[sjm]

Received a note for this thread from a non-member via email...


Dear “Wedge”—

I have a memory of Babe Cranfield which goes back to 1966 or 1967. I attended the World’s Straight Pool Championship in NYC as a youth. Other than Lassiter and Crane and Balsis, I didn’t know who any of the players were, having recently arrived from the Midwest. The tournament was, as I recall, in The Commodore Hotel. I began to watch a match in which “Arthur Cranfield” was playing, whoever “Arthur Cranfield” might be. I still remember that the referee was Ed “Cue Ball” Kelley—not the Ed Kelly who is around now but the man who could snap the cue ball with his fingers and make three-cushion shots, and whose real name may have been Zingale, if I am not mistaken. So Arthur Cranfield, whoever he is, finally busts loose from a safety and gets a pattern that you can see your way through. He shoots a ball and draws back about six inches to perfect position, but his face turns into a scowl. He points with his cue tip on the table to a spot about three inches away from where the cue ball stopped. He’s not happy. He shoots the next ball and goes into a rail and back and gets nearly perfect position. He frowns. He shakes his head. He has missed his position slightly. He gets down and shoots the next shot. Once again, he is dissatisfied and looks in complaint at Kelley for sympathy. Kelley stares back impassively. I think to myself, “Man, this guy never gets his position.” “Arthur Cranfield” makes the shot, which is virtually a hanger anyway.

And so it went for about thirty minutes. When “Arthur Cranfield” finally got up to something like eighty-two balls in his run and was still going strong and his chagrin over his position had continued after every shot, I said to myself, “According to him, this guy is NEVER going to be in position!”

Great story, thanks for sharing. Sounds like Babe Cranfield had some Ben Hogan in him. Ben would win a golf tournament and then suggest that he hadn't hit more than a few good shots in the whole tournament. Ah, those perfectionists.

 

[cardiac kid]

Yeah, I wish I'd met Pat, of whom I'd heard so many good things. I'm not familiar with Ernie or Gil, but would love to hear something about them.

Gil is the subject of my favorite Crane story. In the late fifties or early sixties, watched a practice match between them. Irv broke and to his consternation, left Gil a dead combination. Gil played it, broke the balls up and ran 100 and out on Irv. At the runs conclusion, Irv's comment was "son, that was the worst 100 ball run I've ever seen!". Those of us who know Gil are aware he is / was a shot maker. Took me years to understand the truth of that comment.

Lyn

 

[sjm]

Gil is the subject of my favorite Crane story. In the late fifties or early sixties, watched a practice match between them. Irv broke and to his consternation, left Gil a dead combination. Gil played it, broke the balls up and ran 100 and out on Irv. At the runs conclusion, Irv's comment was "son, that was the worst 100 ball run I've ever seen!". Those of us who know Gil are aware he is / was a shot maker. Took me years to understand the truth of that comment.

Lyn

LOL! That reminds me of Cisero Murphy, who was also the type that would tell somebody who'd just completed a big run "You ran 'em wrong." Of course, back then, a fellow named Lassiter was not exactly up to the pattern standards of Babe or Irving, but he sure had some long innings!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Gil is the subject of my favorite Crane story. In the late fifties or early sixties, watched a practice match between them. Irv broke and to his consternation, left Gil a dead combination. Gil played it, broke the balls up and ran 100 and out on Irv. At the runs conclusion, Irv's comment was "son, that was the worst 100 ball run I've ever seen!". Those of us who know Gil are aware he is / was a shot maker. Took me years to understand the truth of that comment.

Lyn

On the other hand.... I was sitting next to Mike Eufemia (at the 1977 WC in Asbury Park?) who was watching Crane in a match. At one point Mike said disgustedly, "What a showboat." I think he was complaining about the fact that Irv was willing to go 3 rails when none would do.

As Stu mentioned, Lassiter was not textbook in his patterns. In a run of 80, he was likely to have 3 banks.

 

[sjm]

On the other hand.... I was sitting next to Mike Eufemia (at the 1977 WC in Asbury Park?)

Yeah, Bob, the PPPA 14.1 World Championships were in Asbury Park in both 1976, when Larry Lisciotti won, and 1977, when Allen Hopkins won. I was in attendance at both of those tournaments.

 

[Wedge]

Thanks

Received a note for this thread from a non-member via email...


Dear “Wedge”—

I have a memory of Babe Cranfield which goes back to 1966 or 1967. I attended the World’s Straight Pool Championship in NYC as a youth. Other than Lassiter and Crane and Balsis, I didn’t know who any of the players were, having recently arrived from the Midwest. The tournament was, as I recall, in The Commodore Hotel. I began to watch a match in which “Arthur Cranfield” was playing, whoever “Arthur Cranfield” might be. I still remember that the referee was Ed “Cue Ball” Kelley—not the Ed Kelly who is around now but the man who could snap the cue ball with his fingers and make three-cushion shots, and whose real name may have been Zingale, if I am not mistaken. So Arthur Cranfield, whoever he is, finally busts loose from a safety and gets a pattern that you can see your way through. He shoots a ball and draws back about six inches to perfect position, but his face turns into a scowl. He points with his cue tip on the table to a spot about three inches away from where the cue ball stopped. He’s not happy. He shoots the next ball and goes into a rail and back and gets nearly perfect position. He frowns. He shakes his head. He has missed his position slightly. He gets down and shoots the next shot. Once again, he is dissatisfied and looks in complaint at Kelley for sympathy. Kelley stares back impassively. I think to myself, “Man, this guy never gets his position.” “Arthur Cranfield” makes the shot, which is virtually a hanger anyway.

And so it went for about thirty minutes. When “Arthur Cranfield” finally got up to something like eighty-two balls in his run and was still going strong and his chagrin over his position had continued after every shot, I said to myself, “According to him, this guy is NEVER going to be in position!”

Thanks for sharing that...greatly appreciated!

Wedge

 

[Wedge]

1976

Yeah, Bob, the PPPA 14.1 World Championships were in Asbury Park in both 1976, when Larry Lisciotti won, and 1977, when Allen Hopkins won. I was in attendance at both of those tournaments.

I was there also...hell of a hurricane we had at that event! Do you remember when Mizerak was playing and the wind blew the doors open and blew the balls around on the table? The balls were reset and if I remember Steve ran 150 and out that game. Great memories...thanks for bringing it up!

Wedge

I actually had Jerry Rauenzahn make me a Balabushka tribute cue exactly like the one Larry Lisciotti won the 1974 Worlds with. Below is the link.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=235854&highlight=Lisciotti

Wedge

 

[sjm]

I was there also...hell of a hurricane we had at that event! Do you remember when Mizerak was playing and the wind blew the doors open and blew the balls around on the table? The balls were reset and if I remember Steve ran 150 and out that game. Great memories...thanks for bringing it up!

Wedge

I actually had Jerry Rauenzahn make me a Balabushka tribute cue exactly like the one Larry Lisciotti won the 1974 Worlds with. Below is the link.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=235854&highlight=Lisciotti

Wedge

Yeah, it was a little Twilight Zonish when the doors came open in Asbury Park during the storm. Though I was not watching it, Lisciotti told me and others that after the balls were replaced (to the best of the memory of he and his opponent) due to the door incident in his own match, there was a dead ball in the pack.

That was quite an event.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yeah, it was a little Twilight Zonish when the doors came open in Asbury Park during the storm. Though I was not watching it, Lisciotti told me and others that after the balls were replaced (to the best of the memory of he and his opponent) due to the door incident in his own match, there was a dead ball in the pack.

That was quite an event.

I was watching the table by the doors that blew open and that had the most disturbance. (The over-head projector screen blew over onto the scorers and all the balls blew to the head rail. Rain was coming into the arena horizontally.) Herb Lehman was in the middle of studying the table for a safety. After it was decided that the arena was not going to collapse immediately, he put the 8 or so balls back in position and played a safe.

 

[duckie]

This has been some good reading. Very enjoyable.

Is there any video of him shooting? I haven't been able to find any.

Someone mentioned earlier about Babe having a little Ben Hogan in him. In the Straight Pool Bible, Babe shares a story about practicing golf one day and Ben Hogan telling him to stop practicing his strong shots and practice his weaker shots. Babe wrote that was the best advice he ever got.

It is little stories and insights that are at the beginning of each chapter and that are throughout the book that help make for a good read. It is nice to get a glimpse of the mindset of a great player that these stories provide.

 

[cardiac kid]

This can not be the AZ Billiards Forum. Not a single negative word has been written. Lots of new information posted. Old friends were reconnected. Never before seen pictures posted. I'm impressed!!!!! :speechless: :happydance: :yeah:

Lyn

 

[measureman]

At the Asbury Park 14.1 1976 tournament does anyone who was there remember Ernie Lager?

 

[measureman]

At the Asbury Park 14.1 1976 tournament does anyone who was there remember Ernie Lager?

Just a bump to see if anyone besides me remembered him.He played in the tournament.
He passed a while back.

 

[Wedge]

Thanks Everyone!

Thanks to all for sharing on this thread and most of all for everyone being positive! I know that keeping Babe's memory alive meant a lot to his friends!

Thanks Again. :clapping: :angel2: :bow-down:

Wedge

 

[Pushout]

mr cranfeild was not only a great player but person as well got a chance to play with him when i was a kid learned i wasn't as good as him lol by the way upstate ny don't start till you get to syracuse and north of it i get upset when on the news they say upstate ny and it be around buffalo or near nyc people don't know nothing about ny but nyc

Funny you should say that! I met an older gent who worked {though in his mid or late 70s I think} for a local Buick dealership. I saw him playing a couple of time in a now defunct pool room in Spartanburg, SC. When I asked him about his play he told me he'd been taught by Irving Crane in Crane's old room in Binghamton, New York before Crane moved to Rochester. His form was impeccable! I haven't seen him since the room closed about three years ago now. The thing that really got both me and my wife was the fact that the gent had gone to school with my mother-in-law!
We moved from Binghamton to SC 15 years ago.

 

[cardiac kid]

Funny you should say that! I met an older gent who worked {though in his mid or late 70s I think} for a local Buick dealership. I saw him playing a couple of time in a now defunct pool room in Spartanburg, SC. When I asked him about his play he told me he'd been taught by Irving Crane in Crane's old room in Binghamton, New York before Crane moved to Rochester. His form was impeccable! I haven't seen him since the room closed about three years ago now. The thing that really got both me and my wife was the fact that the gent had gone to school with my mother-in-law!
We moved from Binghamton to SC 15 years ago.

Now that is one I was not aware of. Know Irv was raised in Livonia, NY just South of Rochester. Never knew he spent time in Binghamton! As I said earlier, lots of new information on this thread.

Someone mentioned they saw Florence! Can you believe it? She must be into her ninties. Still stops by "Ball Busters". Haven't been there in years. Did see Lee Sibley and Billy Bunn at Super Billiard Expo this year. real blast from the past eh?

Lyn

 

[Pushout]

Now that is one I was not aware of. Know Irv was raised in Livonia, NY just South of Rochester. Never knew he spent time in Binghamton! As I said earlier, lots of new information on this thread.

Someone mentioned they saw Florence! Can you believe it? She must be into her ninties. Still stops by "Ball Busters". Haven't been there in years. Did see Lee Sibley and Billy Bunn at Super Billiard Expo this year. real blast from the past eh?

Lyn

It was before my time but I heard of the room from a lot of old timers. On a sadder note, Fran "Sonny" Brewer died last week. He was 80 and had cancer. Not sure if you knew him or not but about anybody who played in The New York State 9 Ball Championships at The Pocket Billiard Lounge in Binghamton, NY in the '70s. '80s, and '90s might have played him or at least known him. I think he played in all of them and was around the Triple Cities Pool scene for ages.
Real nice guy.