back hand placement

B

bgmk102003

mikefoucht
i am usually a short stroke player with by back hand on top of the top of the grip line or even closer but i have noticed that most people on tv and in person shoot more towards the end of there cue. i have tried to move back a little and ive shot well so im in a pickle and not sure if i should keep shooting the way i used to or change. ive only been playing for four years so change is not goin to be too dificult and i dont have a big tournamnet until the begginning of may so any information would be helpful. point me in the right direction thanks mike
 
In golf you have 14 clubs ranging in length, however, in pool you just have one

bgmk102003 said:
i am usually a short stroke player with by back hand on top of the top of the grip line or even closer but i have noticed that most people on tv and in person shoot more towards the end of there cue. i have tried to move back a little and ive shot well so im in a pickle and not sure if i should keep shooting the way i used to or change. ive only been playing for four years so change is not goin to be too dificult and i dont have a big tournamnet until the begginning of may so any information would be helpful. point me in the right direction thanks mike
Click to expand...

I move my hand according to the distance of the shot.....the closer the shot, or more finesse I need the more forward I move my hand. On longer shots, especially if I need to move the cue ball a lot I'll go more towards the back of the grip.

In golf you have 14 clubs ranging in length, however, in pool you just have one, so you have to create the different lengths yourself. This way you can still accelerate quickly through the cue ball, even on delicate shots as long as you shorten your grip....it will, as a result, shorting your bridge as well. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
I move my hand according to the distance of the shot.....the closer the shot, or more finesse I need the more forward I move my hand. On longer shots, especially if I need to move the cue ball a lot I'll go more towards the back of the grip.

In golf you have 14 clubs ranging in length, however, in pool you just have one, so you have to create the different lengths yourself. This way you can still accelerate quickly through the cue ball, even on delicate shots as long as you shorten your grip....it will, as a result, shorting your bridge as well. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

cj,
do you shorten your bridge as well? also, shorter strokes?

Bert
 
i think my bridge is shorter as well as my stroke but i stay down and follow through. i seem to have goood mechanics as well as a consistent pre shot routine
 
As a general statement, if your stroke hand is not directly beneath your elbow, compensation need to be made during the stroke that are not optimal for play. Also, if you adjust your stroke hand forward or back for finesse or power as suggested, your bridge hand ought to likewise scale up or forward.
 
ive adjusted my hand to underneath my elbow and its a whole new world to me but im plucking away trying to get used to it. it feels awkward but like i said in my 1st post i have a little time to get used to it before tournamnet play. also you said something about finesse or power ive noticed im hitting the ball a little harder with my hand back there shall i move it if i need finesse or just practice arm speed from that position
 
I practice and teach arm speed but there are other ways to do it too.


bgmk102003 said:
ive adjusted my hand to underneath my elbow and its a whole new world to me but im plucking away trying to get used to it. it feels awkward but like i said in my 1st post i have a little time to get used to it before tournamnet play. also you said something about finesse or power ive noticed im hitting the ball a little harder with my hand back there shall i move it if i need finesse or just practice arm speed from that position
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
I move my hand according to the distance of the shot.....the closer the shot, or more finesse I need the more forward I move my hand. On longer shots, especially if I need to move the cue ball a lot I'll go more towards the back of the grip.

In golf you have 14 clubs ranging in length, however, in pool you just have one, so you have to create the different lengths yourself. This way you can still accelerate quickly through the cue ball, even on delicate shots as long as you shorten your grip....it will, as a result, shorting your bridge as well. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do. This was taught to me by my instructor back in the early 90's (has since passed). He told me that this was taught to him by Vernon Elliot (spelling)

Its also worth mentioning that the cue stick speed must be kept as constant as possible.

Thanks for posting CJ. How is the banking video coming along? :)

John
 
Mike...It's important to note that your grip hand should fall directly underneath your elbow, when the tip is touching the CB. Lots of players get their forearm perpendicular, but the tip is still a few inches away from the CB. As mentioned, if you adjust your bridge hand closer to the CB, for some shots or speeds, you should move your grip up a like measurement (i.e.: move your bridge up 2 "...move your grip up 2").:D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

bgmk102003 said:
ive adjusted my hand to underneath my elbow and its a whole new world to me but im plucking away trying to get used to it. it feels awkward but like i said in my 1st post i have a little time to get used to it before tournamnet play. also you said something about finesse or power ive noticed im hitting the ball a little harder with my hand back there shall i move it if i need finesse or just practice arm speed from that position
Click to expand...
 
when I move my right hand further forward it creates a chain reaction

row21097 said:
cj,
do you shorten your bridge as well? also, shorter strokes?

Bert
Click to expand...

Yes, when I move my right hand further forward it creates a chain reaction. Since I always use my right hand connected to my right hip to establish distance it also moves me closer to the cue ball. Because I"m closer to the cue ball it automatically makes my bridge shorter, so I'm basically shooting with a compacted version of my stroke when holding the cue further back.

This is the ultimate way to establish consistency because you can hit all the shots with the same "cue speed" and just use the distance from the cue ball (established by where your right hand is) to make the changes.

I would never recommend "just" changing your bridge length with out the system I just outlined. This would cause a negative chain reaction to occur, I can explain in more detail if you want, this should answer the question pretty well. I show this entire system in my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' which will be out on PPV in the next couple of days on "special".

Play Well.....CJ
 
Nice explanation CJ. I've read and been told many times that cue speed does not vary but have had trouble making it work and chalked it up to the differences in shot lengths between pool and 3C, even though I know it’s probably a cop out.

That being said I'm still having trouble with visualizing this. Same cue speed for all shots between 3" and 20' in pool vs 5' and 90' in 3C. I'd like to revisit this but need to break through the mental block.
 
With a shorter bridge you can still accelerate on finesse shots

3kushn said:
Nice explanation CJ. I've read and been told many times that cue speed does not vary but have had trouble making it work and chalked it up to the differences in shot lengths between pool and 3C, even though I know it’s probably a cop out.

That being said I'm still having trouble with visualizing this. Same cue speed for all shots between 3" and 20' in pool vs 5' and 90' in 3C. I'd like to revisit this but need to break through the mental block.
Click to expand...

Cue speed will naturally vary, it's just a good idea to always accelerate no matter what the shot calls for. If you measure the distance between you and the cue ball by placing your hack hand on your hip and the tip a few inches behind the cue ball you will see what happens as you move your hand up on the the wrap....you will move closer to the cue ball and you will naturally shorten your bridge.

With a shorter bridge you can still accelerate on finesse shots the same "cue speed" as you would with my longer shots holding the cue further back on the wrap. This system is very strong and worth experimenting with, I could show it in person very quickly, in writing I'm not sure if I"m describing it well enough. Video is much easier for me to show the subtle advantages to these type techniques.
 
(FYI, the stick hand is on the cue butt with the bridge hand up front).

There is a rule of thumb trick I use for most beginning and intermediate students.
1. Balance of the cue in your bridge hand.
2. With your stick hand, grasp the cue directly behind that.
This places the stick hand about 4-6 inches behind the balance point.

For more advanced students who use different bridge lengths for different shots, there is a different trick:
1. Start with the above position on the cue.
2. Get down on the shot and move the cue tip to within 1/2 inch of the CB.
3. Use a spider crawl to slide your stick hand towards the butt until your forearm is straight down from your elbow.

This trick also ensures that the tip hits the cue ball exactly where you intended it. Which means you get some awesome draws!
 
This is not too difficult to envision.

Merely hold the cue at the butt with the tip just under the cue ball & your hand straight down at your side & not reaching out. Then with your back foot in place assume your normal shot position & notice the length of distance the bridge hand is from the cue ball.

Now do the exact same thing while holding the cue just behind the joint. Your bridge hand may now even want to fall beyond the tip as this is an over exaggeration.

Now hold the cue at the balance point & do it & notice the distance the bridge hand is from the ball compared to when you held the cue at the butt.

I hope this helps until perhaps CJ posts a you tube.

Regards,
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Also, if you adjust your stroke hand forward or back for finesse or power as suggested, your bridge hand ought to likewise scale up or forward.
Click to expand...

Isn't this simply making a shorter or longer bridge for finesse or power, and appropriately repositioning your grip hand to maintain the forearm perpendicular to the cue?
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, when I move my right hand further forward it creates a chain reaction. Since I always use my right hand connected to my right hip to establish distance it also moves me closer to the cue ball. Because I"m closer to the cue ball it automatically makes my bridge shorter, so I'm basically shooting with a compacted version of my stroke when holding the cue further back.
Click to expand...

Don't you mean forward?
 
allanpsand said:
There is a rule of thumb trick I use for most beginning and intermediate students.
1. Balance of the cue in your bridge hand.
2. With your stick hand, grasp the cue directly behind that.
This places the stick hand about 4-6 inches behind the balance point.
Click to expand...

How does someone like me at 6'2" do this with a standard cue? What does being a beginning, intermediate, or advanced student have to do with this?
 
thanks guys im still not sure what to do i moved my back hand to the 90 degree mark and im so incosistent with shot making i just went back to my old way because im am very consistent that way but now since i played so much the other way im having issues just being consistent on the pre shot routine hand placement and everything that goes with it its really frustrating because im not running out as much and i find myself having problems with cue ball control and speed now. should i keep my arm back and stay that way if so why kind of tips do you have so i can train myself to stay with it and not fall back into my usual stroke
 
bgmk102003 said:
thanks guys im still not sure what to do i moved my back hand to the 90 degree mark and im so incosistent with shot making i just went back to my old way because im am very consistent that way but now since i played so much the other way im having issues just being consistent on the pre shot routine hand placement and everything that goes with it its really frustrating because im not running out as much and i find myself having problems with cue ball control and speed now. should i keep my arm back and stay that way if so why kind of tips do you have so i can train myself to stay with it and not fall back into my usual stroke
Click to expand...

If you're going to make a big change in your mechanics. Just do drills for 2 or 3 weeks and don't play a league or tourney match. Give yourself time to focus on working the new technique into your game.

If you don't give yourself time to develop confidence with your new changes then under pressure you will revert to what your used to doing.

Good Luck.
 
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