Backcuts: Why are they any different?
- Thread starter ktrepal85
- Start date
Incorrect.
This quote mentions both rail and pocket. But for a cut of the same angle, you're not looking at or away from the pocket any more or less from any position on the table. It seems to me that the key difference is whether you're looking towards or away from the rail that the ball is closest to. If you're aiming your cue at the rail, it's an easier shot. If your cue is pointing away from the rail that the object ball is closest to, it's a back cut, and it's harder because you lose the visual cue provided by the rail.
I always just aim to make it, knowing i'll undercut into the rail, I'll put outside english on it and throw it in. Most the the time i have to back cut a ball I am able to get back to middle of table for next shot with this.
Now there are times I have to hit it differently for position, but the more you practice and know your own stroke, the more natural it will come.
Now there are times I have to hit it differently for position, but the more you practice and know your own stroke, the more natural it will come.
Good Drill to do is place a line donuts (space as you want, but do many) from middle of the side pocket to about the middle of the table.
Place the cue ball at about the first diamond along the same side of the table by the corner that is about a inch off the rail.
Now place a ball on the first one closest to the side pocket and shoot it in the corner along the same rail. Move to the next donut and do the same. Make note of how the shot looks to you when you make it. I personally do each one until I make it 3 times in a row before I call it a success. Once you successfully do each one, then start randomly placing them. The first is a progressive skill so you know to increment just slightly, doing it randomly will make you visualize it on your own.
Place the cue ball at about the first diamond along the same side of the table by the corner that is about a inch off the rail.
Now place a ball on the first one closest to the side pocket and shoot it in the corner along the same rail. Move to the next donut and do the same. Make note of how the shot looks to you when you make it. I personally do each one until I make it 3 times in a row before I call it a success. Once you successfully do each one, then start randomly placing them. The first is a progressive skill so you know to increment just slightly, doing it randomly will make you visualize it on your own.
Not a drill, but a neat observation...when you start missing shots you shouldn't and are slipping out of gear, try shooting a rack of balls whereby you make absolutely no adjustments...just drop down and shoot. If it looks wrong to you, DON'T adjust. Trust your initial alignment and don't let yourself talk yourself into adjusting to a miss. You will be surprised. It can get you back into gear quick. :smile:
Back cuts
Hit them solid w low center or a little throw and even low outside and you will expand the pocket. Shots will be able to hit the long rail and still go in, when slow rolling or needing the cue to go down table aim to under cut as the slower speed will help increase the angle a bit. But most do look as if you're alignment is wrong until you learn to trust it w practice! This is probably all fundamentally wrong but it works!
Hit them solid w low center or a little throw and even low outside and you will expand the pocket. Shots will be able to hit the long rail and still go in, when slow rolling or needing the cue to go down table aim to under cut as the slower speed will help increase the angle a bit. But most do look as if you're alignment is wrong until you learn to trust it w practice! This is probably all fundamentally wrong but it works!
macguy...You're talking about consequences involving CB control. When speaking to cut angles the shots are the same. The problems regarding position don't inherently make the shot harder...except in your mind.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I ran across this post from Pidge back in 2013.
I have tried it and it works better than what I have been using.
Have fun.
Quote:
Pidge 07-23-2013 08:09 AM
They come up in snooker all the time, especially on the black. Best bit of advice I ever got as a kid on this type of shot was to completely commit to the shot. Always accelerate through and don't move your head to watch the OB travel toward the pocket.
Infact what I do now is find a spot on the table 6 inches infront of the OB that the ball has to pass over in order to pocket it and concentrate on that spot after contact as you would with a pocket that was in your line of sight. When you practice place a small chalk mark on the table 6" infront of the OB, its suprising how well it works.
Unquote:
I changed this a little. I imagine where I have to strike the OB then imagine a place that the QB has to pass 6" in front of the OB. These are tough shots because there is no reference point (rail or pocket)
John :smile:
I have tried it and it works better than what I have been using.
Have fun.
Quote:
Pidge 07-23-2013 08:09 AM
They come up in snooker all the time, especially on the black. Best bit of advice I ever got as a kid on this type of shot was to completely commit to the shot. Always accelerate through and don't move your head to watch the OB travel toward the pocket.
Infact what I do now is find a spot on the table 6 inches infront of the OB that the ball has to pass over in order to pocket it and concentrate on that spot after contact as you would with a pocket that was in your line of sight. When you practice place a small chalk mark on the table 6" infront of the OB, its suprising how well it works.
Unquote:
I changed this a little. I imagine where I have to strike the OB then imagine a place that the QB has to pass 6" in front of the OB. These are tough shots because there is no reference point (rail or pocket)
John :smile:
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I would agree to a point. However, the only essential visual cues to cut the ball into the hole, are the CB & OB. The other things are secondary, which may, for some players, cause them to "believe" that some shots are more difficult than others (except in the case of extremes). Once you have an accurate & repeatable stroke, aiming comes pretty easily for most players. I've seen and worked with far more players who thought their aiming was off, but it turned out to be flaws in their strokes and/or visual perception. Fix the stroke and train the eyes, and aiming accurately comes with it. Then you have to experiment with speed and spin, to learn how they affect both the CB, the OB's, and what happens with collisions. :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
i havent read all the responces....embarrassed2::embarrassed2:
aim to the tittie on on the far side of the pocket
let me know if this works
pm ok
Stop using outside english. I had this problem 5-10 years. You need to shoot it a lot with touch of inside and it will correct that bad habit of using outside english for making that ball... Thanks for C.J for this. Also shoot it with slow rolling topspin and max low English to find out where cue ball is gonna go if you make that shot. After you experience with that you can use cueball route for overcoming optical illusions this kind shots bring. Aim cueball, not object ball and you will get over it.
Dunno if you think this is horses**t but try it 3 days before judge and you could get surprised...
Using outside is a bad habit, but using inside just substitutes another bad habit. Learn the shot with any and all spin so you can control the cue ball as needed. if you usually undercut it, then aim to overcut it until you get used to the shot.
pj
chgo
After hearing about the imaginary rail trick I went home and practiced these shots for about an hour. It's crazy how much that trick helped me! That's what I have been missing all along. I still usually line up wrong but as soon as I imagine the rail there behind the ball I make a minor adjustment while I'm still down and the ball goes in every time. I think I was making about 80% from a very hard position where I'm usually making about 10%.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
You can use the rail trick on all shots. It's a long standing way of shooting,
Here's an excerpt from the contact-point-to-contact-point and parallel-lines aiming systems resource page:
Other parallel lines relative to edges of the ghost ball (GB) can also be useful in visualizing proper aiming, per the diagram below. The inner and/or outer GB-OB edge lines (orange) parallel to the desired OB target direction can be visualized to help clearly see where the OB needs to head, and the inner and/or outer CB-GB edge lines (yellow) parallel to the necessary CB aiming-line direction can be visualized to help with final aiming.
One way to help visualize the outer GB-OB edge line is to imagine that the OB is frozen to an imaginary rail leading to the pocket. This can help some people visualize the angle of the shot and be more effective.
Good thread,
Dave
That's the theory behind it anyway. Enough people say they have trouble that maybe there's something to it. I don't have a problem so much with the direction I'm aiming, towards or away from a rail. But I do find it easier to aim, and I think I make more shots, along the rail than out in the middle of the table.
On the more general point, I know you've said that before. It almost sounds like you're saying that people never miss due to poor aim. I'm curious - what percent of the time do you think good players miss due to poor stroke, and what percent due to failure to find the correct contact point?
I know that if I shoot a long straight shot, as long as I can bridge well and don't have to do anything with the cue ball, I'll make it almost every time. But move the cue ball so it's a cut, and my error rate goes up a lot.
This is the first time I've ever heard of doing this visualization, and I ran down to my table to give it a shot on some back cuts as well as other cuts that I have doubt's on sometimes. Surprised at how well this worked for me! Thanks
They are a visually discordant shot for me. 
Often, the cut is a very thin cut..approaching 80 degrees or more .. often requiring more speed than is comfortable for me. That increased speed may be part of my accuracy trouble.
Also, I have trouble with these if cb is very close to the OB and the angle is very severe. It helps me to 'see' the shot, to back away from the table/shot to view it from a distance, or from a top view, to establish a shot line, with out the visual distortion from viewing the shot from a very low on the cue perspective. For me, the shot looks different from too close up...not as much a discrete perception of the 'ball overlap' vs the view from a distance.
Sometimes it's hard to trust dropping down on the shot line, as viewed from a further, wider, top view; then I readjust once down on the shot and miss. I generally miss closer, if I maintain the top view shot line while shooting. My misses are usually, from too thin a hit.
The shot just doesn't fit my eye, I guess.
Often, the cut is a very thin cut..approaching 80 degrees or more .. often requiring more speed than is comfortable for me. That increased speed may be part of my accuracy trouble.
Also, I have trouble with these if cb is very close to the OB and the angle is very severe. It helps me to 'see' the shot, to back away from the table/shot to view it from a distance, or from a top view, to establish a shot line, with out the visual distortion from viewing the shot from a very low on the cue perspective. For me, the shot looks different from too close up...not as much a discrete perception of the 'ball overlap' vs the view from a distance.
Sometimes it's hard to trust dropping down on the shot line, as viewed from a further, wider, top view; then I readjust once down on the shot and miss. I generally miss closer, if I maintain the top view shot line while shooting. My misses are usually, from too thin a hit.
The shot just doesn't fit my eye, I guess.