BAD CALLS in Pool ... FOULS that Weren't Called

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates how to detect common fouls in pool and shows examples from pro matches where bad calls were made. Check it out:


Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:54 - Detecting Fouls
---- 1:00 - no rail
---- 1:11 - double hits
---- 2:52 - wrong-ball first
3:52 - Double Hit Bad Calls
7:05 - Wrong Ball First Bad Calls
8:40 - No Rail Bad Calls
9:35 - Wrap Up

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
 
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dr_dave

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If you guys know of other bad or questionable calls that were made in pro pool matches, please post post time-stamp video links for us to check out and discuss. Thanks!
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
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There’s this one
where Shane used the bridge against Kaci at a Eurotour event. People said it looked like the cue ball hit the bridge. I don’t know how you can tell whether it was a foul or not. Time 40:30.
 

Bob Jewett

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There’s this one
where Shane used the bridge against Kaci at a Eurotour event. People said it looked like the cue ball hit the bridge. I don’t know how you can tell whether it was a foul or not. Time 40:30.
If it's not possible to tell, the ref has to remain silent. A video view from the side would have been useful. Even with the video to watch, I can't be sure.

One thing that could help is a system that puts the video into software like Virtual Pool. That would allow you to detect deviations from what the normal paths of the balls are. Such a system has been created but I think it has only been used for carom and it was still being developed the last I heard.
 

markjames

AzB Silver Member
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yea what happened to hawkeye
the computer graphic built for snooker?

haven’t seen it in many years
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
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Just saw one during the Arizona Open. It was one of Oi's matches. He missed position on a close cue ball strike because he double hit the ball. The ref didn't see it. It looked like Oi paused for a second to think about the shot.

 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
There’s this one
where Shane used the bridge against Kaci at a Eurotour event. People said it looked like the cue ball hit the bridge. I don’t know how you can tell whether it was a foul or not. Time 40:30.
It looks more like the cue ball hits the tip of his cue, you can see the path deviate. You can also hear it. And by them pausing the replay at the moment of contact you can't see the change in direction as easily because the motion is interrupted, masking the deviation.

This raises a second question, why does instant replay suck so bad? I don't expect it to be top notch in a pool tournament, although it could be. I'm talking about World Series and Super Bowls. They can easily synchronize multiple cameras together using the time code so you can see one view of the foot and another of the ball and know where the foot was when the ball was caught. That and when they scroll back and forth through the relevant portion of the play, I'm sure there are better transport options available.
 

Bob Jewett

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yea what happened to hawkeye
the computer graphic built for snooker?

haven’t seen it in many years
I think I've seen it recently, but I might be confused by an old YouTube video. I think only certain broadcasts (BBC?) ever had it.

In any case, I don't think hawkeye ever had dynamics. Just still pictures you could pan and zoom around.
 

brigeton

AzB Silver Member
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I have a question about double hits not addressed by your fouls video. That is shooting into a object ball that is frozen to the cue ball. The rules say you can shoot directly into the object ball but the cue cannot strike the cue ball twice. That is confusing to me because the cue ball will go directly forward like in your double hit examples.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
It looks more like the cue ball hits the tip of his cue, you can see the path deviate. You can also hear it. And by them pausing the replay at the moment of contact you can't see the change in direction as easily because the motion is interrupted, masking the deviation.
Yep, an very obvious foul, and one of my favourite counter points to SVB honour. If you can hear it, then the player can definitively feel it.

Once people finally concede that it is a foul. The argument always switches to whether or not he has any responsibility to call the foul on himself.

I'm very glad that video was posted. I always struggle to find it, when the discussion rolls around again.
 

dr_dave

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There’s this one
where Shane used the bridge against Kaci at a Eurotour event. People said it looked like the cue ball hit the bridge. I don’t know how you can tell whether it was a foul or not. Time 40:30.

Thank you for posting this. I've added it to the video description of the YouTube video description, where I'll add all other examples that are posted (here and on Facebook and YouTube). I agree that there is no clear evidence of a foul here.
 

dr_dave

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Just saw one during the Arizona Open. It was one of Oi's matches. He missed position on a close cue ball strike because he double hit the ball. The ref didn't see it. It looked like Oi paused for a second to think about the shot.


Thank you for posting. I've added it to the list in the video description.

Agreed. That was an obvious double hit.
 

dr_dave

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I have a question about double hits not addressed by your fouls video. That is shooting into a object ball that is frozen to the cue ball. The rules say you can shoot directly into the object ball but the cue cannot strike the cue ball twice. That is confusing to me because the cue ball will go directly forward like in your double hit examples.

FYI, I cover this topic in detail, with lots of examples (including super slow motion video) here:


Enjoy!
 

dr_dave

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I'm very glad that video was posted. I always struggle to find it, when the discussion rolls around again.

I am keeping a list in the YouTube video description of all the examples posted (here, on Facebook, and on YouTube). I'll post the list here also at some point so we can easily find them in the future.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Thank you for posting. I've added it to the list in the video description.

Agreed. That was an obvious double hit.
Not convinced on this once... Oi's stroke would have had to follow thru longer than the distance between the CB and 1. Not completely sure it was. What I am confident in is he cut the 1 in the side, and the CB slid not through it but along the tanget a very small amount before the draw grabbed.

Not sure if there's a way to zoom in on video like this without distorting the image beyond useful.
 

dr_dave

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wow... genuinely surprised at your take Dave.

Did you have your audio on while watching the vid...?

What I should have said was: There was no clear evidence of a foul if a ref were viewing the shot live. It does seem by the audio in the slow-motion replay that there might have been a foul; however, using audio to attempt to call a foul can be dangerous since it can be misleading. If there is no clear visual evidence of a foul, a foul should not be called.
 
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