Ball In Hand On The Money Ball - What To Do?

Patrick Johnson said:
Earlier tonight. 9-ball. Ball in hand on the 9.

No pocket.

The ball is frozen to the pocket point, just far enough inside it to hook it from the corner pockets to left and right, but not far enough to be able to make it in the side pocket.

What to do?

View attachment 242529

I tried to force it past the pocket point by hitting it hard at the angle shown in white. The result is shown in yellow.

Was there a better way?

pj
chgo
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You chose the wrong angle to force it past the cushion. With a steeper angle it goes every time. With this shot either the ball is on the rail where it can be made in one or both of the corners or it is on the point where it definitely can be made in the side if the angle is there. With ball in hand this goes every time.
 
JB Cases said:
You chose the wrong angle to force it past the cushion. With a steeper angle it goes every time. ...
Click to expand...
It depends on where the ball is on the cushion. If it is too far around the corner, it won't go. As mentioned earlier, the hardness of the facing also has an effect on how far around the corner the ball can be.

The shot is worth a few minutes of practice on your own table. Find the limit and the best angle. I think no one here can tell you that for your own table. While you're at it, try the Lou Butera version by the corner pocket.
 
If the ball is unmakable every time

I put the Cueball less than a foot away in the center line of the side pocket and spin it towards the back rail cutting the 9ball away or to the farthest rail leaving both balls on the head and back rails near the middle of the table. I hope they try to skim it safe and air it. The shim really helps on this move. The double kiss slows the rock and objest ball so try it first.
I don't like thier chanches.
Nick :)
 
victorl said:
You could try a soft safety leaving your opponent corner-hooked on the side pocket horn. The pocket opening looks very shallow, though, so it's a little risky.
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That's what I would do if there was any doubt the nine could be forced in.

This is definitely a good shot to practice. Since the OB is frozen, the cue ball has to roll forward and touch the point, or it's a foul. The trick is to roll it very softly. With ball in hand it's a high percentage shot (with practice) and if you pull it off it's almost certainly a game winner.
 

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SkyscraperChris said:
You could have also intentionally fouled, which may have led to a stalemate, which would lead to a re-rack. But it depends on the rules you are playing by.
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What rules have a stalemate, never heard of a stalemate, when you are taking fouls?

What rules do you speak of???
 
So the favorite choices are:

- hit steeper/harder/with draw to force it in
- pocket hook safety
- intentional foul (let him figure it out)

I like all of these options. Thanks, everybody.

pj
chgo
 
I tried this shot on several tables in our room.
...dead-on, from 18 inches away...hitting it fairly hard, no spin.

GC1...original rubber....no problem
GC4....no problem
Diamond pro-am....no problem
Diamond bar-box....no problem

GC1, shimmed to US Open size....rattled the first one....
...hit the second try 20% harder....no problem

I have seen some Globals and Robertsons that wouldn't take this shot.

You must play the shot THROUGH the rubber, don't cut it towards the
far jaw.
 
pt109 said:
I tried this shot on several tables in our room.
...dead-on, from 18 inches away...hitting it fairly hard, no spin.

GC1...original rubber....no problem
GC4....no problem
Diamond pro-am....no problem
Diamond bar-box....no problem

GC1, shimmed to US Open size....rattled the first one....
...hit the second try 20% harder....no problem

I have seen some Globals and Robertsons that wouldn't take this shot.

You must play the shot THROUGH the rubber, don't cut it towards the
far jaw.
Click to expand...

just went ahead and set this shot up on my GC1 with Artemis Intercontinental rubber (just 1 year old) and Simonis 860 (less than 3 months old) and shot it full ball with draw at approx 45 degrees up the table from the side pocket.

result was 6 for 6.

on my particular setup, the point seems to compress happily to allow the ob in.

thanks to the smart az posters who sorted this out and to PJ for posting this thread.

I learned something new. :cool: :thumbup:

best,
brian kc
 
JB Cases said:
You chose the wrong angle to force it past the cushion. With a steeper angle it goes every time. With this shot either the ball is on the rail where it can be made in one or both of the corners or it is on the point where it definitely can be made in the side if the angle is there. With ball in hand this goes every time.
Click to expand...

Agree: if the OB is far enough behind the knuckle that it can't be made into the corner along the rail, this mean it can be pounded directly into the middle pocket, on most tables not even draw on the CB is needed.

Alternatively, there are at least two great safeties: 1) double-kissing the OB away from the knuckle rolling the CB onto it almost straight from a roughly 90° position for a tough leave, or 2) for those who have great feel and nerves, roll CB onto the OB so the CB gets glued behind the middle pocket knuckle for a perfect safety that's akin to throwing a live shark into one's opponent's bathwater. :grin:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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SkyscraperChris said:
You could have also intentionally fouled, which may have led to a stalemate, which would lead to a re-rack. But it depends on the rules you are playing by.
Click to expand...

There is no stalemate rule in 9 ball, only 8-ball. And in 8-ball it's tough to figure it out without a ref to call it unless both players are good enough to see a no-win situation. For example the 8-ball almost in the pocket with another ball right on top of it, that would cause a stalemate.

The shot as shown is not hard, just shoot the 9 though the point. It will compress and ball goes in.
 
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steveinflorida said:
Check Ray Martin's book 'The 99 Critical Shots In Pool".
Page 76, shot #33. :grin:
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Ah... there it is!

Martin recommends using hard draw. He also mentions the corner pocket shots that Butera speaks of.

FWIW I could easily make the shot on my table at an even shallower angle than in Pat's drawing, and with the OB higher up on the cushion, but I could only make it that way with a full power draw. When it failed it made for some interesting outcomes.

Made OB in far opposite corner, scratched in side.
Made OB in near opposite corner, scratched in same corner.
Made OB in near corner on same corner, scratched in opposite side....

Best outcome was steeper angle AND draw. Ten for ten that way.
 
dr_dave said:
This shot reminds me of other types of shots where a ball must compress the cushion to create clearance. Two such shots are demonstrated in the following video:

Enjoy,
Dave
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What a treasure trove of in-depth information your website is, Dave! There's more useful and free knowledge at the other end of each one of your links than on some entire websites.

pj
chgo
 
PJ

How about cross corner off the 'tit'? Not high percentage but if done with the right speed, should leave a long bank if missed.

Rick
 
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Shoot it straight in the center of the pocket and DRAW the ball back.

Patrick Johnson said:
Earlier tonight. 9-ball. Ball in hand on the 9.

No pocket.

The ball is frozen to the pocket point, just far enough inside it to hook it from the corner pockets to left and right, but not far enough to be able to make it in the side pocket.

What to do?

View attachment 242529

I tried to force it past the pocket point by hitting it hard at the angle shown in white. The result is shown in yellow.

Was there a better way?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


Shoot it straight in the center of the pocket and DRAW the ball back....it will go THROUGH the cushion and into the pocket. Make sure to draw the ball back or it won't work because the "topspin" put on the object ball makes it stay in the side without popping out.
 
Can you not just cut the ball up table in the corner? Especially if you have a gut feeling that the shot is just outside the limitations of the above recommendations?
 
threads like this . . .

threads like this are why I enjoy az so much.

PJ ran into a tough situation on the game ball, and asked what we would do in that spot.

Some good suggestions were made, runoutJJ shared a youtube video link of the shot being made in the side by compressing the pocket-point, experts like Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave, and CJ Wiley came on to confirm this (of course, Dr. Dave, with more video evidence - even in slo-mo :)), and added to the mix was a very experienced pt109 who not only shared what he knew about certain tables that would likely not take this shot, but he tried it on the various diamonds and gc tables in his room, reporting success on all of them.

Previously, I was aware of compressing a cushion in order to get by a blocking ball but never gave any thought to being able to compress a pocket point to pot a ball.

Now, I'm really looking forward to this 'problem' to come up in a game. :cool:

Thanks!

best,
brian kc
 
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