Ball Park figure

I don't include wood selection time as I spend many non productive hours in my shop screwing off, watching tv, chatting here on AZ and messing with Bobcad. Picking wood and laying out the cue gets done during meals or when Perry mason is on.

We have one rule in our shop, no machines running during Perry Mason or Cash Cab.
Rick[/QUOTE]

you say WE
that means there's more than just you?
extra hands makes a huge difference
someone asked me the other day, how long to build a cue
i replied
" i dont know, dont want to know, if i did,
i'd realize i was making 25 cents an hour
:thumbup:

here's something no one mentioned
what about all the time involved in cue layout?
the shitload of emails back & forth
i've got an hour or more in this one,
and that's just getting it on PAPER!
at LEAST an hour
 

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I've never figured how many hours it takes me to build a cue. BUT.....I can tell you how many beers it takes...JER

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

i like this answer.

yesterday i was at joe bakers place and we were talking about this and i said "theres no way it would take me 30 hours to build a cue start to finish, it has to be less" well i sat down and figured it up and i was wrong:mad: I dont even want to say how long it takes me:rolleyes:
 
time = $

From reading this, one would get the impression that some of you actually do this for a profit.

Kim
 
From reading this, one would get the impression that some of you actually do this for a profit.

Kim

When I tell folks that I don't build cues to make money, I build cues because I can afford to, it's quite literally the truth.
 
The only way to make things efficiently, is when you have many machines being feed parts to process per labour unit.
When the operation is the same time of the labour unit, there is no gain at all. When the operation leaves the operator with time to do something else, now there is a gain.
If the parts to be made can be automatically feed in and the machine just runs b itself,there is an even bigger gain in the amount of time to make a part for the labour unit.
It takes time and alot of machines to have a dedicated setup for each operation to minimise setup times.
When you can achieve this, parts to be processed can be done with 20 seconds of operator time or even less.
The machines don't have to be cnc, but do need some form of auto operation and shutdown when finished.
When I was making engines, more time goes into assembly and testing, than the total making of the parts.
 
Hi,

Neil is very tuned in and he understands intuitively because of his background. Once testing and long term beta testing is verified the faster you can get an acceptable level of repeatability the better. You can say bedtime prayers to the wood at night but in the morning I am their worst nightmare because I am going to butcher their ass as fast as I can (except for shaft wood which I will say a few prayers for and treat real gentle).

This thread is about hours spent on task building a basic cue. Every hour you shave off that assignment is more money in your pocket vs units of time spent. If you want to question or dismiss my 10 hour plain jane that's ok with me because it is no skin off of my ass. If you open your mind up to a new culture of doing even the simplest tasks you will be making more money for unit of your time spent and your quality will go off the wall.

As just one starting point for clarification, time any detailed task in cue making. Now time your work for that task using a specific blueprint and procedure for every operation and color code your drills, taps, reamers, and other tooling for fast and easy 100% access and verification. Better speed and better quality will occur.

Take the time to make the drawing and write down your step procedure. You will find that your productivity increases by a huge number because your not flying by the seat of your pants, not having to pick up a caliper to verify the size of a tool before each deed saves time and your mental process will flow with the procedure. Making go and no go gauging also saves a lot of time and helps with repeatability. Not using these simple instructions and visuals is like an instrument pilot making an approach in the fog without the Jepsen Chart on his knee board. It makes no sense and can only lead to a problems. It is not if but when.

Mistakes and rework from mistakes will almost disappear unless you are silly after taking hits off the bong between cuts. (Bongs are outlawed in my shop for at least 5 hours before any machines are operating):nono:

I know we are having some fun about bad sales in a terrible market and working for pennies but my advise is to be careful what you wish for because it always becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.:idea2:

If you visulize people handing you over $ 2,000.00 as a minimum for you cues it will happen. If you don't make that part of all your expectations, it will never occur. Merrily, Merrily, Merrily, Merrily life is but a dream!:yeah:

Cue making is like basket weaving for people in the nut house. The main thing is to enjoy the work and gain more craftsmanship with every cue you create. It does not matter if you have one Hightower lathe and a shop vac in your basement or have multipul machines doing singular tasks. The end result is what counts. I believe fast with process quality control is always better. JMO

Rick

Working to drawings and simple step procedures is SOP in our shop. I laminate the pages out of my program procedure and they are used for all operations and are posted for jobs on dedicated machine to components. What I found is that by doing this and working this way, I am always finding a better and faster path to the end result and keep having to Rev the task and reprint and re laminate. I like when that happens because I am getting more efficient with better control of quality.

I have observed that if you are not doing a specific function on a regular daily basis these placards bring you right back in to focus without relying on your past memory and experience. Every time I have made a mistake while machining something by blowing past a number it was mental error that added time to the build or screwed up a cue. By following procedures and visually looking at a drawing your mental focus it as good as it gets.

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Rick, I pick up on the notion that you find cue making competitive, even to the point of how long it takes to build a cue. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that way with every other post of yours boasting about how great or fast your methods are. Time stops for no man, no reason. The world doesn't pause while you pick the wood to be cut, pull it off the shelf, turn on your doweling machine, turn on your dust collector, walk the square to the machine, lift to insert, then unpause for the actual cutting & pause again while you center drill the ends, seal, and hang. The actual cutting motion may take 20 seconds. But everything else involved very quickly adds up to far more time. For being so scientific minded, you sure seem to ignore a lot of the details that would counter your chosen logic. If you're going to use science, and truly be honest with yourself, then you need to consider everything and consider it without bias. Accept the truth no matter how much it defies your thesis. It always feels good to think you figured something out that gives you an edge, but it's blind bliss if it's unproven & void of fact. Science isn't getting an idea & proving it. Science is getting an idea and disproving it every way possible, concluding with the factual truth.

None of us like to admit that it takes a shitload of time to build a cue. That would mean we are doing it for nothing, or at best very cheap. The fact of the matter is that there is no way to build a very nice cue without spending a fair amount of time on it. Eat it because it's true. Disprove it if you think you can. Buyers will not pay $5000 for a plain jane custom cue. So we undercut ourselves & sell them cheaper. Some sell them MUCH cheaper, actually losing money or literally working for free & paying the buyer to take the cue.

If it takes me 30hrs to build a $1000 cue, I make $33.33/hr. Subtract Uncle Sam's 28% & we have $720. Material cost for that cue is roughly $100, including nice woods & phenolics, joint pin, bumper, finish, epoxy, etc. Now it's $620. I use lots of paper towels & chemicals, mixing sticks, rubber bands, rubber gloves, sealer, etc. that likely add up to about $10. $610. My utility bill is about $400/month, and 30hrs. for me is pretty much that entire month, but for a normal 40hr week it brings the cue down to around $530. Insurance on shop and liability another $100/month, $20 for 30hrs, so $510. I suck at records & books so H&R Block keeps me out of trouble for another $20. $490 is what I get from a $1000 cue that took me 30hrs to build. That's $16.6/hr., which is not by any means good but respectable. But now how much of it goes back into more materials, machine maintenance, etc.? And what about guys like me who only get a few hrs./week in the shop? I might actually make $40-$50/week, enough to take momma out to dinner & movie once or twice a month. At $16/hr. you gotta build a shitload of cues & sell every single one of them to make a go of it. At that rate, you'd need to complete two P/J cues every week & never have a single one of them go sour during the build, or else you won't make your bills.

Doesn't sound so awesome being a cue maker, huh? Like I said, I can afford to build cues. This is exactly why full time cue makers spend 60-80hrs/wk in shop. They have to. That 'might' barely get them a single family home & nice vehicle to drive, but forget about medical & dental insurance. And what happens when all of the sudden they aren't "hot" anymore, and people quit buying their cues? Cue makers are made & broken on trends. It's facts of life. Anybody who thinks they can make it on cues is nuts. The only way to do it is hire some help, work your ass off, build a superb cue & charge next to nothing for it so you can sell everything you build. Pay yourself a fair wage & give your employees minimum. Then you maybe can live in the burbs & drive a nice used entry model Lexus. Sounds awesome, huh?

I know I went off on a tangent but the point is that cue making is hard. It pays nothing so you have to genuinely love it. Why put more pressure on yourself by ignoring the facts & cutting yourself short? You're getting screwed already so why do it to yourself some more? Nobody cares how efficient you work or how straight your cues stay after cutting them down so fast. It's really a mute point once you consider reality. Build your cues & be happy with what you do, regardless of how fast you are compared to how fast anybody else is. Nobody wins. Every cue maker loses. So what, you build cues in 10hrs? You're still getting robbed & are poor like the rest of the cue makers. Or you are like me & only do it for your enjoyment, in which then why do you care how long it takes? The longer you spend on a cue, the more fun you have. I feel guilty because I am in demand & can't/won't fill the demand, when there are plenty of other cue makers who really need the business. I have often contemplated quitting on that fact alone. There simply isn't anything in cue making worth competing over, or doing fast. If you build an awesome cue you get a tiny bit of prestige in a tiny little sub-culture. There's literally no plausible purpose for building cues other than genuinely loving the craft. And if you love it enough to do it & deal with all the negative, then just enjoy yourself.
 
Rick, I pick up on the notion that you find cue making competitive, even to the point of how long it takes to build a cue. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that way with every other post of yours boasting about how great or fast your methods are. Time stops for no man, no reason. The world doesn't pause while you pick the wood to be cut, pull it off the shelf, turn on your doweling machine, turn on your dust collector, walk the square to the machine, lift to insert, then unpause for the actual cutting & pause again while you center drill the ends, seal, and hang. The actual cutting motion may take 20 seconds. But everything else involved very quickly adds up to far more time. For being so scientific minded, you sure seem to ignore a lot of the details that would counter your chosen logic. If you're going to use science, and truly be honest with yourself, then you need to consider everything and consider it without bias. Accept the truth no matter how much it defies your thesis. It always feels good to think you figured something out that gives you an edge, but it's blind bliss if it's unproven & void of fact. Science isn't getting an idea & proving it. Science is getting an idea and disproving it every way possible, concluding with the factual truth.

None of us like to admit that it takes a shitload of time to build a cue. That would mean we are doing it for nothing, or at best very cheap. The fact of the matter is that there is no way to build a very nice cue without spending a fair amount of time on it. Eat it because it's true. Disprove it if you think you can. Buyers will not pay $5000 for a plain jane custom cue. So we undercut ourselves & sell them cheaper. Some sell them MUCH cheaper, actually losing money or literally working for free & paying the buyer to take the cue.

If it takes me 30hrs to build a $1000 cue, I make $33.33/hr. Subtract Uncle Sam's 28% & we have $720. Material cost for that cue is roughly $100, including nice woods & phenolics, joint pin, bumper, finish, epoxy, etc. Now it's $620. I use lots of paper towels & chemicals, mixing sticks, rubber bands, rubber gloves, sealer, etc. that likely add up to about $10. $610. My utility bill is about $400/month, and 30hrs. for me is pretty much that entire month, but for a normal 40hr week it brings the cue down to around $530. Insurance on shop and liability another $100/month, $20 for 30hrs, so $510. I suck at records & books so H&R Block keeps me out of trouble for another $20. $490 is what I get from a $1000 cue that took me 30hrs to build. That's $16.6/hr., which is not by any means good but respectable. But now how much of it goes back into more materials, machine maintenance, etc.? And what about guys like me who only get a few hrs./week in the shop? I might actually make $40-$50/week, enough to take momma out to dinner & movie once or twice a month. At $16/hr. you gotta build a shitload of cues & sell every single one of them to make a go of it. At that rate, you'd need to complete two P/J cues every week & never have a single one of them go sour during the build, or else you won't make your bills.

Doesn't sound so awesome being a cue maker, huh? Like I said, I can afford to build cues. This is exactly why full time cue makers spend 60-80hrs/wk in shop. They have to. That 'might' barely get them a single family home & nice vehicle to drive, but forget about medical & dental insurance. And what happens when all of the sudden they aren't "hot" anymore, and people quit buying their cues? Cue makers are made & broken on trends. It's facts of life. Anybody who thinks they can make it on cues is nuts. The only way to do it is hire some help, work your ass off, build a superb cue & charge next to nothing for it so you can sell everything you build. Pay yourself a fair wage & give your employees minimum. Then you maybe can live in the burbs & drive a nice used entry model Lexus. Sounds awesome, huh?

I know I went off on a tangent but the point is that cue making is hard. It pays nothing so you have to genuinely love it. Why put more pressure on yourself by ignoring the facts & cutting yourself short? You're getting screwed already so why do it to yourself some more? Nobody cares how efficient you work or how straight your cues stay after cutting them down so fast. It's really a mute point once you consider reality. Build your cues & be happy with what you do, regardless of how fast you are compared to how fast anybody else is. Nobody wins. Every cue maker loses. So what, you build cues in 10hrs? You're still getting robbed & are poor like the rest of the cue makers. Or you are like me & only do it for your enjoyment, in which then why do you care how long it takes? The longer you spend on a cue, the more fun you have. I feel guilty because I am in demand & can't/won't fill the demand, when there are plenty of other cue makers who really need the business. I have often contemplated quitting on that fact alone. There simply isn't anything in cue making worth competing over, or doing fast. If you build an awesome cue you get a tiny bit of prestige in a tiny little sub-culture. There's literally no plausible purpose for building cues other than genuinely loving the craft. And if you love it enough to do it & deal with all the negative, then just enjoy yourself.

I have been following this with interest and appreciate everyone's input. I will say that it is nice to see how different people do things and enjoy I seeing shop pics.

Everyone has differing views and I one day hope to "enjoy" the "success" that the even the best of you have. I have been counseled first hand by a master cuemaker on how he feels and what to expect. Eric is spot on with the trends. This is especially true if you exported any cues to areas like Japan. The demand is here today, then gone tomorrow.

As far as competition, and with effort to NOT talk out of my ass, the work ALWAYS speaks for itself..
 
Rick, I pick up on the notion that you find cue making competitive, even to the point of how long it takes to build a cue. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that way with every other post of yours boasting about how great or fast your methods are. Time stops for no man, no reason. The world doesn't pause while you pick the wood to be cut, pull it off the shelf, turn on your doweling machine, turn on your dust collector, walk the square to the machine, lift to insert, then unpause for the actual cutting & pause again while you center drill the ends, seal, and hang. The actual cutting motion may take 20 seconds. But everything else involved very quickly adds up to far more time. For being so scientific minded, you sure seem to ignore a lot of the details that would counter your chosen logic. If you're going to use science, and truly be honest with yourself, then you need to consider everything and consider it without bias. Accept the truth no matter how much it defies your thesis. It always feels good to think you figured something out that gives you an edge, but it's blind bliss if it's unproven & void of fact. Science isn't getting an idea & proving it. Science is getting an idea and disproving it every way possible, concluding with the factual truth.

None of us like to admit that it takes a shitload of time to build a cue. That would mean we are doing it for nothing, or at best very cheap. The fact of the matter is that there is no way to build a very nice cue without spending a fair amount of time on it. Eat it because it's true. Disprove it if you think you can. Buyers will not pay $5000 for a plain jane custom cue. So we undercut ourselves & sell them cheaper. Some sell them MUCH cheaper, actually losing money or literally working for free & paying the buyer to take the cue.

If it takes me 30hrs to build a $1000 cue, I make $33.33/hr. Subtract Uncle Sam's 28% & we have $720. Material cost for that cue is roughly $100, including nice woods & phenolics, joint pin, bumper, finish, epoxy, etc. Now it's $620. I use lots of paper towels & chemicals, mixing sticks, rubber bands, rubber gloves, sealer, etc. that likely add up to about $10. $610. My utility bill is about $400/month, and 30hrs. for me is pretty much that entire month, but for a normal 40hr week it brings the cue down to around $530. Insurance on shop and liability another $100/month, $20 for 30hrs, so $510. I suck at records & books so H&R Block keeps me out of trouble for another $20. $490 is what I get from a $1000 cue that took me 30hrs to build. That's $16.6/hr., which is not by any means good but respectable. But now how much of it goes back into more materials, machine maintenance, etc.? And what about guys like me who only get a few hrs./week in the shop? I might actually make $40-$50/week, enough to take momma out to dinner & movie once or twice a month. At $16/hr. you gotta build a shitload of cues & sell every single one of them to make a go of it. At that rate, you'd need to complete two P/J cues every week & never have a single one of them go sour during the build, or else you won't make your bills.

Doesn't sound so awesome being a cue maker, huh? Like I said, I can afford to build cues. This is exactly why full time cue makers spend 60-80hrs/wk in shop. They have to. That 'might' barely get them a single family home & nice vehicle to drive, but forget about medical & dental insurance. And what happens when all of the sudden they aren't "hot" anymore, and people quit buying their cues? Cue makers are made & broken on trends. It's facts of life. Anybody who thinks they can make it on cues is nuts. The only way to do it is hire some help, work your ass off, build a superb cue & charge next to nothing for it so you can sell everything you build. Pay yourself a fair wage & give your employees minimum. Then you maybe can live in the burbs & drive a nice used entry model Lexus. Sounds awesome, huh?

I know I went off on a tangent but the point is that cue making is hard. It pays nothing so you have to genuinely love it. Why put more pressure on yourself by ignoring the facts & cutting yourself short? You're getting screwed already so why do it to yourself some more? Nobody cares how efficient you work or how straight your cues stay after cutting them down so fast. It's really a mute point once you consider reality. Build your cues & be happy with what you do, regardless of how fast you are compared to how fast anybody else is. Nobody wins. Every cue maker loses. So what, you build cues in 10hrs? You're still getting robbed & are poor like the rest of the cue makers. Or you are like me & only do it for your enjoyment, in which then why do you care how long it takes? The longer you spend on a cue, the more fun you have. I feel guilty because I am in demand & can't/won't fill the demand, when there are plenty of other cue makers who really need the business. I have often contemplated quitting on that fact alone. There simply isn't anything in cue making worth competing over, or doing fast. If you build an awesome cue you get a tiny bit of prestige in a tiny little sub-culture. There's literally no plausible purpose for building cues other than genuinely loving the craft. And if you love it enough to do it & deal with all the negative, then just enjoy yourself.

Eric,

Question comes up on the forum about a ball park time element for building a simple plain jane. I respond and then when questioned about the accuracy of my answer I explain methods, machines and the time saving elements using procedures. I love that stuff as much as I love making cues.

When questioned again I reiterate the reasons why in a truthful manner. I see that more as defending a position than being boastful but what do I know. I also can't control what other people think that don't bother to read and comprehend simple statements about efficiencies gained by using automation and different build techniques than their own. As a rule I don't change the topic of a thread and when I do I try to apologize. In this thread I have been 100% on point and find that some don't want to hear or believe what I am saying because they are set in their ways and think it is the only way or they have blinders on. I never told anyone how to build a cue only how I build a cue. There is a big difference.

But there is the beauty of a place like this for communication between peers. What we are doing here is picking each other's brains and that is what the scientific community and academia calls peer check and review and it is the life's blood of progress in any discipline wether it be artful or mechanical in our case.

Being competitive is not my mission in life as there is enough to go around for everyone but "enough" falls into tiers and hierarchies. How much do you want to work or strive for. For me I only want to sell a few cues a month at the moment.

You on the other hand have build a great brand and following and frankly I am curious why you don't aspire to take it to the next level at your age. You are in the catbirds seat to do this probably much more than most that hang out here. There are countless opportunities in overseas markets to affluent people who love to go off and spend a ton for a great cue like comes out of your shop. All you need is an agent to represent your brand.

Let me ask you this. If someone came to you and offered you $ 25,000.00 per month to make 10 Sugartrees and ship them to Dubai and Turkey how would you respond? Cue Making takes too much time so you can give the business to someone else? My guess is you would figure out a way to build your cues with the same quality to fill the orders each month.

On the other hand if ever faced with that type of business opportunity I already know I could pull it off because have prepared myself by a pre installed system of management in my shop.

If I was a competitive Mr. Potter type, I would not be sharing the abstract knowledge and disciplines of my little world good or bad as they are. I just like to share, discuss and learn as much from others here.

The unknown road always comes to a fork at some point, it is nice to have the road map and have an understanding of your contingencies not your limitations.

Cue making is truly like basket weaving in the nut house only we don't have to worry about the big guys wearing the white suits to take us to the rubber room, most of us are already there.:joyful:

It's all good,

Rick
 
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Rick, I enjoy your enthusiasm. It's nice to see. I don't agree with directing it at cues, but it's nice to see none the less.

All I can say in response to you, in a most non arrogant way, is that if you knew what I know, you would be in my position with more cues to build than you have time in your life. And if I did what every other cue maker thinks I should do, then i'd be just like them, struggling.
 
Rick, I enjoy your enthusiasm. It's nice to see. I don't agree with directing it at cues, but it's nice to see none the less.

All I can say in response to you, in a most non arrogant way, is that if you knew what I know, you would be in my position with more cues to build than you have time in your life. And if I did what every other cue maker thinks I should do, then i'd be just like them, struggling.

Eric,

Point well taken. To thine own self be true. With that mindset you will never go wrong.

Rick
 
It would be very difficult for a small cuemaker to be able to produce a simple cue for as cheap as the big companies. On any production you always get more efficient the more you make at a time. Having said that it is difficult for big outfits to duplicate the quality controle of the custom cuemaker. They cant grain match and be so picky with all the fine tuning.From a small makers point of view it will never be a huge money making venture for the simple fact that you can only be so productive with one mans hands. At the end of the day you are limited to as much time as you can devote to your craft. So for me I already know there is no way I could make a living so it is just something I do for enjoyment and a little extra spending cash. So I dont want to start being a production and try and get everything down to a repedative process like Rick described. Then this gig is just a second job. So why would i want a second job that that pays so little? I think you realy have to ask why one is building in the first place.
 
It would be very difficult for a small cuemaker to be able to produce a simple cue for as cheap as the big companies. On any production you always get more efficient the more you make at a time. Having said that it is difficult for big outfits to duplicate the quality controle of the custom cuemaker. They cant grain match and be so picky with all the fine tuning.From a small makers point of view it will never be a huge money making venture for the simple fact that you can only be so productive with one mans hands. At the end of the day you are limited to as much time as you can devote to your craft. So for me I already know there is no way I could make a living so it is just something I do for enjoyment and a little extra spending cash. So I dont want to start being a production and try and get everything down to a repedative process like Rick described. Then this gig is just a second job. So why would i want a second job that that pays so little? I think you realy have to ask why one is building in the first place.


I hope you make a little extra cash..... I use mine to buy more wood to make more cues............... lol

Kim
 
Two cuemakers are chatting...

Cuemaker 1: "Hey, what would you do if you won the lottery?"

Cuemaker 2: "Man, tough question." <thinks a few seconds> "After I pay a few bills, I would probably take the wife on a long vacation to Europe. We always wanted to travel. What about you?"

Cuemaker 1: "Easy decision for me, I would just keep making cues until I was broke again."


<paraphrased, and original author unknown>

Kelly
 
This was exactly the point of my post describing profit margin.

If you even try and make some cash with photography, this is a heated subject...profit.

With everyone and their mother carrying a point and shoot, plus cameras in their phones, it is hard to get FAIR money. There are exceptions, of course. The thing is, alot of people in that business are willing to settle. Guys/gals settle for less money, customers settle for less quality. There is alot more that goes into it(just like cue making) that people have no clue about. It is so easy to say "I could do that", that pretty soon a couple has a friend of a friend shooting their wedding for 300.00 bucks. It is sad to see really. I'm not saying I am the cat's meow, but if I am going to put my reputation(such as it is) on the line and take on the responsibility of capturing moments from what is hopefully one of the happiest days of their lives, I'm going to charge accordingly.

The point I'm trying to make here is don't devalue yourself. If you choose that road, everyone will follow.
 
If you even try and make some cash with photography, this is a heated subject...profit.

With everyone and their mother carrying a point and shoot, plus cameras in their phones, it is hard to get FAIR money. There are exceptions, of course. The thing is, alot of people in that business are willing to settle. Guys/gals settle for less money, customers settle for less quality. There is alot more that goes into it(just like cue making) that people have no clue about. It is so easy to say "I could do that", that pretty soon a couple has a friend of a friend shooting their wedding for 300.00 bucks. It is sad to see really. I'm not saying I am the cat's meow, but if I am going to put my reputation(such as it is) on the line and take on the responsibility of capturing moments from what is hopefully one of the happiest days of their lives, I'm going to charge accordingly.

The point I'm trying to make here is don't devalue yourself. If you choose that road, everyone will follow.

To get paid fair for a P/J cue, a guy would need to charge about $2000. The market won't bare it but for a couple of builders, and then only a couple of buyers would pay it. Everybody else has to get what they can or else not sell a cue. A guy can build a junker cue & charge a couple hundred bucks, and it'll play ok & get the job done. Why would anybody pay multiple times that amount for a much better cue that only performs slightly better? Simple fact is that no matter what a guy thinks his work is worth, the buying public are the ones who actually decide. My P/J cues are worth $5000. Who's gonna buy them?

There's no fix for the situation, not that I see. Nobody is going to make solid middle class money on cues. There's no market to support it. I'm aware of that, and choose to build cues anyway because I enjoy building cues. It doesn't bother me that I can never make money doing it, because I knew it before I ever began building & it's not the purpose I build them. But those who have dreams of turning their cue making into money are in a pipe dream & setting themselves up for severe failure & loss. It is what it is, but folks still refuse to accept it.
 
To get paid fair for a P/J cue, a guy would need to charge about $2000. The market won't bare it but for a couple of builders, and then only a couple of buyers would pay it. Everybody else has to get what they can or else not sell a cue. A guy can build a junker cue & charge a couple hundred bucks, and it'll play ok & get the job done. Why would anybody pay multiple times that amount for a much better cue that only performs slightly better? Simple fact is that no matter what a guy thinks his work is worth, the buying public are the ones who actually decide. My P/J cues are worth $5000. Who's gonna buy them?

There's no fix for the situation, not that I see. Nobody is going to make solid middle class money on cues. There's no market to support it. I'm aware of that, and choose to build cues anyway because I enjoy building cues. It doesn't bother me that I can never make money doing it, because I knew it before I ever began building & it's not the purpose I build them. But those who have dreams of turning their cue making into money are in a pipe dream & setting themselves up for severe failure & loss. It is what it is, but folks still refuse to accept it.

You know what? You are right on all counts. I have another job(for now...) that pays the bills and repair work has been building because I do a good job. The house is paid for and I don't have alot of bills. Therefore, I have been afforded the money to accumulate tools and materials.

I wouldn't want to try and pay a mortgage with what I have seen regarding cue making.
 
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