Balukas or A. Fisher??

[bruin70]

As always, it's impossible to compare a dominant performer in one era versus a dominant performer in another. We can only say how they dominated their era. And Jean dominated her era more than Allison. We can say what we want about today's players being better (they are), but a champion is a champion and it's pretty clear to me that Jean's game would be better in a better field than it was in a weak field. Does anyone disagree with that?

That all being said, we asked someone who played both during a time when both dominated, and here's what she had to say:

From:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/bf96e1dbaa44815c?dmode=source



Read the rest of the post. It's very enlightening from one who was there.

I had the wonderful fortune to have been sitting next to Jean in Valley Forge for the entire Sunday session one year. We talked about softball, sports in general, getting older, getting injured. But, she talked about the same things about pool in the post by Robin. No winner take all if she ever played Allison in a challenge match (which she didn't seem all that interest in). She likes the idea that she'd be a fan favorite (on tour) instead of the target. But more importantly, that really, she had zero intention, inkling, temptation, or desire to play on tour. That's not her anymore.

Fred

i pretty much agree with the statistical/competition analysis of robin's. however, i think players in pool CAN be compared. one can compare the difficulties in tables and equipment...and ultimately running 10 racks or 200 balls should carry equal weight no matter what the era. that is the game at it's purest.

what would come into play is a player's heart, but one cannot quantitatively deny the greatness of a player's game. jeanette has a higher run than jb. if the two got together it would be a matter of who was the most consistant......but based purely on high run, jeanette is better, and it wouldn't be like comparing ruth and aaron.

and was dodson the gal jb criticized and eventually got her fined which led to her quitting?

 

[pdcue]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. In her prime, Jean didn't have to beat LJJ, who was just a kid when Jean retired.

Your comments are ridiculous.

Really, in her prime Jean crushed Loree, who BTW was well into her twenties when Jeanie retired

I saw both of them play in person many times, in the early 80s
LJJ was strugling to run 2 racks while Jeanie was beating
100 ball runners in tyhe MENS division

what is the source of your information about Jean in her prime?

anyone who can count without using their fingers
can say which of us is ridiculous

Dale

 

[tedkaufman]

In 1992 at the 14.1 US Open, Roosevelt Hotel, LJJ broke Jean's high run record for the US Open. So, in all the times Jean had previously played in the US Open, her best run was 56. So where are all the 100's you think she ran? Count that.

Yes, your statement was ridiculous and obviously uninformed.

 

[cuechick]

cuechick earlier said Jean didn't really have a love for the game, her heart was more into tennis or golf. can anybody elaborate on this? it's not very often you have arguably the greatest player in a sport not having a real love for the game. interesting.

also are there any videos of her playing about? never even seen her hit a ball.

Well, I can clarify it a bit by explaining that Jean was raised in a pool hall, it was her family business. I talked to her at length about it, a few years ago, when I was reseraching a documentary project. Jean was very honest about it and told me she did love it when she was young, and her Dad felt she had a great chance to get on the map so to speak as a pro player cause it was still a bit of a novelty for women to even play.
The got a lot of mainstream publicity because of her youth and gender. She was even on talk shows like the Mike Douglas show etc...and it was a way to promote the family business, which she still runs to this day.
Had it been up to her she would have pursued golf or tennis...but I am sure as a great athlete she loved competing at anything!

She also expressed to me, her own view of how much the level of play has risen since she played. She felt she would have to work very hard to get up to speed, but I am sure if she wanted to she could. The key there is desire and she just does not have it. I really wish someone or something could coax her out. I think the right amount of money and right venue might change her mind...but she seems pretty content as is.

It is interesting, I think her "legend" & "mystic" have grown because of her premature departure from the game. Yet she is such a down to
earth, lovely person...I think if I owned a big cue or other industry company, I might just try and captilize on that ...

 

[kaznj]

How much would you pay?

How much would you pay to see the two ladies play? Maybe someone can entise JB to come out of retirement for a big payday. Maybe even a multi game (8b,9b 14.1) between AF, KC, and Jb. Wouldn't you enjoy seeing that? I would try for a front row seat to see them compete.

 

[Cornerman]

BTW, does anyone else think she was/is one the the most attractive female players on the tour??

Easily. She's more impressive in person, as are Ewa and Jeanette.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

and was dodson the gal jb criticized and eventually got her fined which led to her quitting?

Yes. Robin Bell at the time.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

In her prime, Jean didn't have to beat LJJ, who was just a kid when Jean retired.

... Loree, who BTW was well into her twenties when Jeanie retired

These two statements aren't mutually exclusive. Jean's last tournament, the ill-fated 1988 Brunswick World Open 9-ball was Loree Jon's 22nd year of existence. A kid by many standards, well into her twenties by less standards.

Fred

 

[vagabond]

With the exception of SJM,Nostroke and `toupe` Jay how many here heard of Gloria Walker and how many remember Mary Kenniston ( do not know her present married name) from New Jersey who now lives in Las Vegas?These two ladies beat my dream girl Jean Balukas in straight pool tournaments.Loree Jon Jones beat Jean Balukas in the finals of the ``world 9 Ball championships`` held in somerset,NJ in 80s.Ofcourse there were rumors of controversy surrounding the finals of that event.
When I first saw Gloria walker play in the pensylvania State championships in ? 1978 or 1979 she was 17 or 18 years old and she was very attractive women and was a very strong player and no wonder she was able to beat jean balukas.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

With the exception of SJM,Nostroke and `toupe` Jay how many here heard of Gloria Walker and how many remember Mary Kenniston ( do not know her present married name) from New Jersey who now lives in Las Vegas?These two ladies beat my dream girl Jean Balukas in straight pool tournaments.Loree Jon Jones beat Jean Balukas in the finals of the ``world 9 Ball championships`` held in somerset,NJ in 80s.Ofcourse there were rumors of controversy surrounding the finals of that event.
When I first saw Gloria walker play in the pensylvania State championships in ? 1978 or 1979 she was 17 or 18 years old and she was very attractive women and was a very strong player and no wonder she was able to beat jean balukas.

I hadda instant crush on Gloria the second I layed eyes on her. She was very pretty and could run out, whatta combo!! Lori Shampo should be added to the list of who could play...along with Palmer Byrd, Gerri Titcombe and Fran Crimi!!!

 

[ironman]

With the exception of SJM,Nostroke and `toupe` Jay how many here heard of Gloria Walker and how many remember Mary Kenniston ( do not know her present married name) from New Jersey who now lives in Las Vegas?These two ladies beat my dream girl Jean Balukas in straight pool tournaments.Loree Jon Jones beat Jean Balukas in the finals of the ``world 9 Ball championships`` held in somerset,NJ in 80s.Ofcourse there were rumors of controversy surrounding the finals of that event.
When I first saw Gloria walker play in the pensylvania State championships in ? 1978 or 1979 she was 17 or 18 years old and she was very attractive women and was a very strong player and no wonder she was able to beat jean balukas.

Never saw Gloria Walker, but an old friend of mine saw her and ranted and raved about her for quite a while.

Another one I saw play many times and played many times was Geraldine Titcomb. She and her husband Frank were, I believe partners with Grady in a pool room in Aurora Colorado back in the late 70's or early 80's.

Geraldine had the full game and the power of a Balukas. She could bet it up too. She was a good person too. I lost touch, but, always misse Gerldine and Frank.

 

[vagabond]

I hadda instant crush on Gloria the second I layed eyes on her. She was very pretty and could run out, whatta combo!! Lori Shampo should be added to the list of who could play...along with Palmer Byrd, Gerri Titcombe and Fran Crimi!!!

Are that You old enough to know Palmer Byrd and Gerri Titcombe? how did u resolve that `crush`` and did u ask her out?

 

[jay helfert]

FWIW - men's tourneys were Ball in hand from the 60s onwards.
BIH started at Johnston City, the dreaded 'push out' version.
One foul had taken over totally, for tournaments, by the early 70s.

AFAIK - women played the same rules

Dale

Sorry to disagree here. I could be wrong, but my clear recollection is that Richie Florence introduced BIH at the Caesars Tahoe tournaments in the early 80's. It was quite controversial at the time. Leaving balls down when made on a foul shot, and giving the incoming player BIH anywhere on the table. He did it to speed up the game.

I'd just like to see him get credit for this innovation. Prior to these events, we were still playing "push out" on all shots (why we never learned to jump balls or kick), and all balls respotted on a foul, and incoming player had BIH behind the line.

I welcome any old timers to discuss this. My memory is pretty clear. I know that when I played in Dayton in the 70's, we were still shooting from behind the line and all balls were being spotted.

 

[jay helfert]

With the exception of SJM,Nostroke and `toupe` Jay how many here heard of Gloria Walker and how many remember Mary Kenniston ( do not know her present married name) from New Jersey who now lives in Las Vegas?These two ladies beat my dream girl Jean Balukas in straight pool tournaments.Loree Jon Jones beat Jean Balukas in the finals of the ``world 9 Ball championships`` held in somerset,NJ in 80s.Ofcourse there were rumors of controversy surrounding the finals of that event.
When I first saw Gloria walker play in the pensylvania State championships in ? 1978 or 1979 she was 17 or 18 years old and she was very attractive women and was a very strong player and no wonder she was able to beat jean balukas.

True,

Jean did lose to these women. One match! Every year it seemed Jean would lose a match or two. That's for the whole year. When she lost, it was like a miracle had taken place. Everyone would be talking about Jean losing a match.

In the Finals of the 1987 Classic Cup (a DVD I have), Jean loses the first set to Ewa, and then wins the final set. It was true DE.

 

[Cornerman]

and how many remember Mary Kenniston ( do not know her present married name) from New Jersey who now lives in Las Vegas?.

Crazy Mary is what Mizerak called her on TV when she won the 1989 Brunswick World Open 9-ball. She married Fred Guarino.

Fred <~~~ yet another Fred

 

[Cornerman]

Sorry to disagree here. I could be wrong, but my clear recollection is that Richie Florence introduced BIH at the Caesars Tahoe tournaments in the early 80's. .

I've read this Jay, but when Fats and Willie hooked up on TV, didn't they play one foul, ball-in-hand? Wasn't that in the 70's?

Fred <~~~ CRS

 

[jay helfert]

I hadda instant crush on Gloria the second I layed eyes on her. She was very pretty and could run out, whatta combo!! Lori Shampo should be added to the list of who could play...along with Palmer Byrd, Gerri Titcombe and Fran Crimi!!!

Lori Shampo was a brazen street kid who grew up in a pool hall. She was more a pool hustler than a tournament player. She would woof at Jean to gamble (more than once), and they had a few run ins.

Lori was playing $100 to $500 a game 9-Ball at the Rack in Detroit (against men) in the 70's. And taking it down. Trying to win a pool tournament with a $1,600 first prize was not her priority. She was the equal of Jean in ability (at 9-Ball), but just not a tournament player, although she won a couple.

Her game was a lot like Jasmin's. She had a big stroke and could fire 'em in. Unfortunately, drugs and alcohol were her downfall.

 

[jay helfert]

Never saw Gloria Walker, but an old friend of mine saw her and ranted and raved about her for quite a while.

Another one I saw play many times and played many times was Geraldine Titcomb. She and her husband Frank were, I believe partners with Grady in a pool room in Aurora Colorado back in the late 70's or early 80's.

Geraldine had the full game and the power of a Balukas. She could bet it up too. She was a good person too. I lost touch, but, always misse Gerldine and Frank.

I believe they have both passed away.

 

[jay helfert]

I've read this Jay, but when Fats and Willie hooked up on TV, didn't they play one foul, ball-in-hand? Wasn't that in the 70's?

Fred <~~~ CRS

That may be for TV. Perhaps that's where Richie got the idea. I'm not sure tho.

Neither of these guys was a great player anymore, although Willie could still run out. My recollection is he won all the matches with Fats easily. But Fats won the hearts of the viewers.

 

[ironman]

That may be for TV. Perhaps that's where Richie got the idea. I'm not sure tho.

Neither of these guys was a great player anymore, although Willie could still run out. My recollection is he won all the matches with Fats easily. But Fats won the hearts of the viewers.

FWIW. The man behind the Fat's Mosconi televised idea was Tom Armstrong who also passed on. It was Tom's pride and joy.