Ban Magic Rack for Pro Events?

[CJ Wiley]

That's the only way

I'm fine with them using a magic rack, but go back to refs racking and make the player break.

You're right, this is the only way to use this rack....it makes the 10 Ball break a "trick shot," the two behind the one go in the side, the next two go cross side and the corner balls go 4 rails. 6 wired balls are too many. imho

 

[Banks]

They're professionals, right? Let em do full rack rotation with pushes. That'll stop the cheesy safeties, show some shooting and, on top of it, impress people that would otherwise think a 9b runout isn't all that special.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The game needs to be challenging to set up suspense

They're professionals, right? Let em do full rack rotation with pushes. That'll stop the cheesy safeties, show some shooting and, on top of it, impress people that would otherwise think a 9b runout isn't all that special.

9 Ball is fine with a Push for the first shot. This sets up a strategic exchange that can be turned into dram and suspense by the commentators.

Push Out is a much more offensive game because you can never win on a safety, so you MUST shoot something in and run out. None of this "ball in hand" a high percentage of the time. That's like watching a bunch of 1 foot putts, or lay ups in basketball. The game needs to be challenging to set up suspense, there's few other ways that are effective with Pros.

 

[Banks]

9 Ball is fine with a Push for the first shot. This sets up a strategic exchange that can be turned into dram and suspense by the commentators.

Push Out is a much more offensive game because you can never win on a safety, so you MUST shoot something in and run out. None of this "ball in hand" a high percentage of the time. That's like watching a bunch of 1 foot putts, or lay ups in basketball. The game needs to be challenging to set up suspense, there's few other ways that are effective with Pros.

Part of the problem is that 9b is just too easy to run racks. Also, I don't think anybody wants to see every game start with a push. That seems to me like it would hurt the breaker more. That's why I suggested a full rack. Even a strong full rack break will leave somebody with work to do.

With 9b push out after the break.. assuming that it's the first shot must be a push.. I'd just soft break, scratch, hand over the break. Why break and risk making something, only to be forced to hand the table over? Isn't that akin to winning the kickoff and having to punt back on your first possession?

 

[Celtic]

Magic rack for 9 ball is no good at the professional level.

9 ball is no good at the professional level.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the best characteristics of one pocket and 9 Ball combined.

Part of the problem is that 9b is just too easy to run racks. Also, I don't think anybody wants to see every game start with a push. That seems to me like it would hurt the breaker more. That's why I suggested a full rack. Even a strong full rack break will leave somebody with work to do.

With 9b push out after the break.. assuming that it's the first shot must be a push.. I'd just soft break, scratch, hand over the break. Why break and risk making something, only to be forced to hand the table over? Isn't that akin to winning the kickoff and having to punt back on your first possession?

A pro wouldn't "soft break," they would try to make as many balls as they could and hang the one ball. Then you would have to make the one, so it spots or roll out, which would be tough. The player controlling the table would always have the option of Rolling Out or making their opponent Roll Out.

This is much more exciting than you can imagine unless you've played it with the "Push Out Rules". It's actually a great way to play, with the best characteristics of one pocket and 9 Ball combined.

 

[Harold Smith]

Why did they not like the Sargo rack. I thought it was a good rack, always tight.---Smitty

 

[CJ Wiley]

. The difference in "shot making" would be mind boggling

You can change all the rules you want, one of svb, dennis, or alex will always walk away with the trophy.

I think you're correct, it's just a matter of bringing out their "A" Game. If you start out with a Push Out you will see how the Game can really be played.

It would be comparable to the US OPEN courses in golf where it's a lot tougher, and you see the most awesome shots, but it doesn't allow the 25 under par tournament scores.

The difference in "shot making" would be mind boggling.:yikes: 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CreeDo]

All magic rack does is freeze the balls. You can get the exact same results with a wood triangle if you labor over it until every single ball touches. But nobody wants to do that.

People are playing up this myth that the mbr creates special breaks that don't normally happen with triangles. It's simply not true. You're just not used to seeing those "too easy" breaks because you've been settling for slightly loose racks for decades.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

 

[BeiberLvr]

Why did they not like the Sargo rack. I thought it was a good rack, always tight.---Smitty

Sardo creates divots in the table.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Many good points made here. I guess it somewhat depends on what defines a pro tournament. The Swanee this past weekend is anything but that. Certainly pros play in it but there are 192 players and I'd bet maybe 20 have a shot at most. One thing the BR does for a tournament like this is get 192 players through the event in 2 days. It really does speed up play and that is a blessing for an event like this.

Now, for a smaller field event with a higher entry fee that is pretty much a full field of pros and shortstops, if they are going to use the Magic Rack fine, but something has to be done about the pattern racking and soft break - Break box, balls past the head string, neutral racker, whatever. Controlling whitey is one thing but watching these guys controlling almost the entire rack off the break is not working for me. Last night was basically like watching Orcollo play the ghost and a player of his caliber is expected to beat Casper (i.e. break and run most of the time).

 

[hang-the-9]

If all of the balls are touching...then it is a matter of pattern racking?

Yes, I think that is the major issue with using the Magic Rack, soft hit, pattern racking (which is technically NOT allowed per official BCA or World rules, as they state "remaining balls placed in a RANDOM order"), leads even lower level players to be able to run racks.

Magic Rack + 10 ball or 8 Ball is a great combination. 9 ball not quite as much as it's a lot easier to make a ball, but it's a lot better option than having gaps in the rack that send the 9 ball to hand up in the corner pocket for an easy combo.

 

[hang-the-9]

I think you're correct, it's just a matter of bringing out their "A" Game. If you start out with a Push Out you will see how the Game can really be played.

It would be comparable to the US OPEN courses in golf where it's a lot tougher, and you see the most awesome shots, but it doesn't allow the 25 under par tournament scores.

The difference in "shot making" would be mind boggling.:yikes: 'The Game is the Teacher'

I think I would rather play (and watch) alternate breaks rather than push-out after the break, or as I posted before, a rotating break every 2-3 breaks like in Tennis.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The better the break, the worse the quality of pool as a rule.

I think I would rather play (and watch) alternate breaks rather than push-out after the break, or as I posted before, a rotating break every 2-3 breaks like in Tennis.

A lot of people "think" that. If just depends on if you want to see the intricacies of the game or not. The better the break, the worse the quality of pool as a rule.

Just listen to the feedback from this last tournament, there's no "head to head" competition if someone just breaks and runs out. I know this is what players want to do (break and run out), however, at the highest levels it's not that interesting to not have to "earn" the run out.

The races could be shorter and still more interesting. A lot of these games in a race to 11 are wasted by easy run outs with ball in hand or after making 3 or 4 balls on the break. In 10 Ball there are 6 "wired" balls{with a magic rack}off the break if you hit hit the break at 24mph. Is this really pool, or a trick shot?

 

[bigshooter]

Let's go back to Sudden Death 7-Ball, that should fix everything.

 

[tank69]

The issues with the MR don't just reside with PRO tourneys...You should hear people ***** and whine at our weekly tournaments! It's crazy, nobody is ever satisfied...with ANYTHING when it comes to pool players. For a sport that so poplular, you would think those that play it actually hate it!

 

[BarneyCalip]

I Have Seen The Light

Dennis at the Swanee killed Pattern Racking.

He was amazing, the 6 and 9 were in the same location after he hit the One.
I can't wait to see the re-run of the final.
To see if every ball is going to the same location.

I break like a girl.
So after a few of Dennis's breaks, I went to my table.
Wow the Eight went in corner pocket, 2 and 3 up table.
Now I know which shots to work on for the run.
I'm going to be Pattern Racking like Dennis.
Maybe I'll be able to run out, LOL. :frown:

Is this in Joe Tuckers Secrets to Racking.
Hymm, may have to buy Joe's book and both DVD's.
I always thought Pool was a Game not a War.

 

[poolwizard]

All magic rack does is freeze the balls. You can get the exact same results with a wood triangle if you labor over it until every single ball touches. But nobody wants to do that.

People are playing up this myth that the mbr creates special breaks that don't normally happen with triangles. It's simply not true. You're just not used to seeing those "too easy" breaks because you've been settling for slightly loose racks for decades.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

I agree! I don't understand why would you want to use a regular rack when the magic rack makes all the balls touch. Isn't that we are wanting in the first place? Isn't that what all these players argue about when they are racking? Just use the magic rack.

I don't agree with this whole first shot is a roll out no matter what. Just play the game. If you don't like it then play 10 ball or 15 ball rotation.

What the magic rack does is shows how easily you can make balls on a 9 ball rack. It's not a question about the rack but the game.

 

[hang-the-9]

A lot of people "think" that. If just depends on if you want to see the intricacies of the game or not. The better the break, the worse the quality of pool as a rule.

Just listen to the feedback from this last tournament, there's no "head to head" competition if someone just breaks and runs out. I know this is what players want to do (break and run out), however, at the highest levels it's not that interesting to not have to "earn" the run out.

The races could be shorter and still more interesting. A lot of these games in a race to 11 are wasted by easy run outs with ball in hand or after making 3 or 4 balls on the break. In 10 Ball there are 6 "wired" balls{with a magic rack}off the break if you hit hit the break at 24mph. Is this really pool, or a trick shot?

Didn't they invent one pocket for players that did not want to make balls and have long runs? LOL :wink:

 

[CJ Wiley]

in another year they will be giving away stuffed animals for first prize

Didn't they invent one pocket for players that did not want to make balls and have long runs? LOL :wink:

9 Ball is still the best game, the rules are just hokey. Taking strategy and movement out of the game of pool is the issue. It's not the same game as it was in the earlier years and it's all due to the Rack and Break.

In golf, they make the courses longer and more difficult, in pool they make it into "putt putt" with the magic rack and jump sticks. Then most tournaments you don't have to call any pockets so there's 6 targets on each shot. I predict in another year they will be giving away stuffed animals for first prize. :groucho: