BCA - From The Horse's Mouth

ABR

ABR Public Relations
Silver Member
Was a great TAR podcast tonight - props and thanks to Justin and the crew.

I guess I should probably talk about our show too? :cool:

Tonight's show will feature BCA CEO Rob Johnson, explaining their stance on many of the issues that the pool world is facing. Don't shoot the messenger.

We'll also hear from "The Oracle" - Mark Cantrill and his new travel segment :D

Mary Ann speaks with Steinway Billiards owner Manny Stamatakis

And of course we cant forget NYC Grind's sassy lassy, Alison Fischer along with JT.



I got a little distracted with the TAR podcast, so my apologies for running a little late.
The show should be available for listening at 10pm central, or shortly thereafter.
Mr. Bond is gonna have my head on a platter so I'm gonna make like banana and split.

- Pete
 
Has anyone been able to find this weeks show, as all I'm seeing is the show from
Jan. 9th on their home page?
 
Was a great TAR podcast tonight - props and thanks to Justin and the crew.

I guess I should probably talk about our show too? :cool:

Tonight's show will feature BCA CEO Rob Johnson, explaining their stance on many of the issues that the pool world is facing. Don't shoot the messenger.

We'll also hear from "The Oracle" - Mark Cantrill and his new travel segment :D

Mary Ann speaks with Steinway Billiards owner Manny Stamatakis

And of course we cant forget NYC Grind's sassy lassy, Alison Fischer along with JT.



I got a little distracted with the TAR podcast, so my apologies for running a little late.
The show should be available for listening at 10pm central, or shortly thereafter.
Mr. Bond is gonna have my head on a platter so I'm gonna make like banana and split.

- Pete

First of all "The Oracle" All roads lead to Rome as a wise man once said :) It's growing on me Pete "The Oracle" Sounds way fancy too.
Anyway, Itsfroze here is the link http://www.americanbilliardradio.com/
 
Oh, man, these are EXCELLENT topics. I can't wait to listen to this. I have to get jobs out today, but I wil be listening to this particular ABR broadcast by tonight. Great cast of interviewees. Bravo!
 
Is the BCA obligated to send players to the World Games every four years?

I don't know the answer, but I am hoping the answer is yes.
Only because other wise it doesn't make sense to me.

I thought I followed Pool fairly closely and I for one didn't know the
World Games were every four years until I looked it up.
I had a feeling just from the name that there was no money involved.
I wonder is it just me or did everyone know who won the 2013 version.
I think I would have semi guessed it was Appleton because I sort of
remembered that but I certainly wouldn't have wagered on it.
I also didn't know there were three disciplines, Snooker, Billiards and Pool.

So my obvious question is unless the BCA is obligated to send four players every
four years to the World Games by being the North American arm of the WPA,
Why send struggling Pro Players to a tournament where they can't earn any
money even if they win. That seems even a worst prospect than knowing you
have to finish in the top four to make a few dollars?
 
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Is the BCA obligated to send players to the World Games every four years?

I don't know the answer, but I am hoping the answer is yes.
Only because other wise it doesn't make sense to me.

I thought I followed Pool fairly closely and I for one didn't know the
World Games were every four years until I looked it up.
I had a feeling just from the name that there was no money involved.
I wonder is it just me or did everyone know who won the 2013 version.
I think I would have semi guessed it was Appleton because I sort of
remembered that but I certainly wouldn't have wagered on it.
I also didn't know there were three disciplines, Snooker, Billiards and Pool.

So my obvious question is unless the BCA is obligated to send four players every
four years to the World Games by being the North American arm of the WPA,
Why send struggling Pro Players to a tournament where they can't earn any
money even if they win. That seems even a worst prospect than knowing you
have to finish in the top four to make a few dollars?


Well, I am not sure if those "Struggling Pro Players" realize that the World Games is, regardless, the most prestigious event in non-Olympic sports Worldwide.
And, for instance: anyone who listened to Darren Appleton's interviews must have noticed how exciting he sounded about winning last year's Games in Cali and how important it was on his list - even though there was no money for the win.
Seems that different Pro Players have different "Priorities" :cool: :yikes: :shakehead:

On the occasion:
Next World Games are in 2017 in the City of Wroclaw, Poland.
Here are links to the official Webpage and Facebook, unfortunately not much info in English there :(
http://worldgames2017.pl/english/
https://www.facebook.com/The.World.Games.2017.Wroclaw
 
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I like to listening to your show and I am very glad you are doing this ABR show. I was excited when I saw you were having someone from the BCA on last night.
for me that is where my excitement ended however. In fact I was so annoyed by what I heard or what I didn't hear might be putting it better, that I turned the show
off after that segment.

I wish I had heard at least one tough question or even a tough follow up question when an answer was less than illuminating.
He said they spend a lot of money on rule books and they are about to put out a new one after a rules committee meeting of the WPA that they sit on.

Another question I still don't know the answer to is if the WPA puts out a rule book why can't the BCA just piggy back on that one, do they have to spend a lot money
putting out their own. If the BCA and WPA rules aren't the same them make them the same. I think they should be anyway so there could be consistency throughout
the World.

I see no reason for this big expense why have an actual rule book at all? Everybody has a computer or smart phone these days. Can't they just have
the rules available on line? They even said they have a rule app now.

When asked what he thought was the main problem, he said something like well I don't use the word problem. What word do you use then is he simply
going to keep passing over the word problem until he can jump right to the word catastrophe.

I can only recall him using the word Pro player once in the entire interview, was it just me or did it seem to anyone else like it did to me, that he was
making a concentrated effort to not say Pro player. All I kept hearing was we support play, I've never heard pool referred to as play in all the years I've been around the game.

In all fairness maybe he was using the word play over and over as a way of getting himself ready for the day there won't be any PRO PLAYERS left,
and he figured now was a good time to prepare because it shouldn't be far off!

I wonder how much their new rule app cost? Is that a money maker for the BCA? Or is that a waste of money? I don't know.

He says he doesn't pay much attention to what people say about the BCA because he knows how hard they work for Pool. I find when organization is doing a good job with something good things are said, no? Maybe he should listen. If he listened to what is being said maybe they wouldn't think they are doing such a bang up job. All I ever read on their press releases is what good things they are doing, a lot of back slapping and giving of awards to each other. Frankly the last release that I read they were fawning over some great new idea, and it didn't sound great at all. in fact it was so great that I can't even remember what it was.

I didn't hear one question about selling the BCA pool league that could have helped them raise money to put on a tournament or tournaments per year.
He did however say they don't have the money to put on tournaments right now but they would like to in the future.

Perhaps a good question would have been weren't you making money off of the BCA league and do you think it was a wise decision to sell the league in
the first place. Or how is the BCA planning on making more money if they want to put tournaments on in the future but can't afford to now.

I do remember when pressed a little he finally said not that they would approach the players but if the players want to approach them about forming a players ass.
they would listen. Again it seems to me that they as the BCA should be the ones approaching the players about forming a players association.

He also said he thinks that acting out hurts the players and the sports image. LOL next he said he hadn't really thought about any wording or how the wording
should be, REALLY?

Well I guess now that I think about it that does make sense since you aren't trying to get a players association formed so the Pro players are under under the BCA.
Wait that makes no sense what so ever. Why wouldn't you being trying to reach out to the Pro players and get a players association formed under the BCA and set some standards as to what acting out is or is not acceptable. Especially sense you stated you thought acting out hurt the players and Pools image. Those seem to be two contradicting statements to me.

I just follow and love this sport as I'm sure many of you do also. These are the things that jumped out at me and my opinions.

Again I am glad that ABR show is on and you are trying to do something good for Pool! Just maybe put a segment like this on last, so more people listen the whole show.
This is way to long oh well, not your show, what I wrote.
 
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I like to listening to your show and I am very glad you are doing this ABR show. I was excited when I saw you were having someone from the BCA on last night.
for me that is where my excitement ended however. In fact I was so annoyed by what I heard or what I didn't hear might be putting it better, that I turned the show
off after that segment.

I wish I had heard at least one tough question or even a tough follow up question when an answer was less than illuminating.
He said they spend a lot of money on rule books and they are about to put out a new one after a rules committee meeting of the WPA that they sit on.

Another question I still don't know the answer to is if the WPA puts out a rule book why can't the BCA just piggy back on that one, do they have to spend a lot money
putting out their own. If the BCA and WPA rules aren't the same them make them the same. I think they should be anyway so there could be consistency throughout
the World.

I see no reason for this big expense why have an actual rule book at all? Everybody has a computer or smart phone these days. Can't they just have
the rules available on line? They even said they have a rule app now.

When asked what he thought was the main problem, he said something like well I don't use the word problem. What word do you use then is he simply
going to keep passing over the word problem until he can jump right to the word catastrophe.

I can only recall him using the word Pro player once in the entire interview, was it just me or did it seem to anyone else like it did to me, that he was
making a concentrated effort to not say Pro player. All I kept hearing was we support play, I've never heard pool referred to as play in all the years I've been around the game.

In all fairness maybe he was using the word play over and over as a way of getting himself ready for the day there won't be any PRO PLAYERS left,
and he figured now was a good time to prepare because it shouldn't be far off!

I wonder how much their new rule app cost? Is that a money maker for the BCA? Or is that a waste of money? I don't know.

He says he doesn't pay much attention to what people say about the BCA because he knows how hard they work for Pool. I find when organization is doing a good job with something good things are said, no? Maybe he should listen. If he listened to what is being said maybe they wouldn't think they are doing such a bang up job. All I ever read on their press releases is what good things they are doing, a lot of back slapping and giving of awards to each other. Frankly the last release that I read they were fawning over some great new idea, and it didn't sound great at all. in fact it was so great that I can't even remember what it was.

I didn't hear one question about selling the BCA pool league that could have helped them raise money to put on a tournament or tournaments per year.
He did however say they don't have the money to put on tournaments right now but they would like to in the future.

Perhaps a good question would have been weren't you making money off of the BCA league and do you think it was a wise decision to sell the league in
the first place. Or how is the BCA planning on making more money if they want to put tournaments on in the future but can't afford to now.

I do remember when pressed a little he finally said not that they would approach the players but if the players want to approach them about forming a players ass.
they would listen. Again it seems to me that they as the BCA should be the ones approaching the players about forming a players ass.

He also said he thinks that acting out hurts the players and the sports image. LOL next he said he hadn't really thought about any wording or how the wording
should be, REALLY?

Well I guess now that I think about it that does make sense since you aren't trying to get a players ass. formed so the Pro players are under under the BCA.
Wait that makes no sense what so ever. Why wouldn't you being trying to reach out to the Pro players and get a players ass. formed under the BCA and set some standards as to what acting out is or is not acceptable. Especially sense you stated you thought acting out hurt the players and Pools image. Those seem to be two contradicting statements to me.

I just follow and love this sport as I'm sure many of you do also. These are the things that jumped out at me and my opinions.

Again I am glad that ABR show is on and you are trying to do something good for Pool! Just maybe put a segment like this on last, so more people listen the whole show.
This is way to long oh well, not your show, what I wrote.

I agree with you! No questions on joining the U.S. Olympic Committee? no questions on WHERE the money from the sale of the pool league went??? Seems, they wanted the sale and adding two players to the BCA committee would have under mind the sale! The organization clearly lost its way to go from owning a league that generated money and funds to an entity strapped for cash and broke just a few years after the big sale!

KD
 
Coffee Talk!

....I do remember when pressed a little he finally said not that they would approach the players but if the players want to approach them about forming a players ass.
they would listen. Again it seems to me that they as the BCA should be the ones approaching the players about forming a players ass.

....Well I guess now that I think about it that does make sense since you aren't trying to get a players ass. formed so the Pro players are under under the BCA.
Wait that makes no sense what so ever. Why wouldn't you being trying to reach out to the Pro players and get a players ass. formed under the BCA and set some standards as to what acting out is or is not acceptable. Especially sense you stated you thought acting out hurt the players and Pools image. Those seem to be two contradicting statements to me....

well good-morning-to-me! coffee & smut talk!
general concensus @ Mosconi, was that Boyes has the best ass. (in his tight little English tailored stretchy GQ pants) and Dennis has the biggest biceps. (i know, cause i broke my thumbnail off backwards on it)
 
Be sure, I would have loved to ask many more, and much 'harder' questions, but, also keep in mind that he doesn't have to answer anything. Interviews are tricky like that, ask the wrong question and click.......dial tone.

Nonetheless, I'm glad that the Q&A is making you think. And I HIGHLY recommend - that if you have something on your mind, a burning question, by all means either call or email Mr. Johnson, or one of the board members, and ask them.

That is the real point of all this - THINK - and then take action. If everyone who visits this forum spent a fraction of the effort that they do to post here, applying pressure, in the form of asking the right questions, perhaps the BCA or any other person or organization may feel the need to respond in kind with action. Maybe they are out of touch and need a wake up call? Maybe they believe that nobody cares?

Whatever the case, too many times, those who raise hard questions are looked at as troublemakers when in reality, it is they who actually care the most.

:cool:


Oh and by the way - LOL - speaking of coffee talk, someone asked me about this.....
I kinda slurred the words a little on the show - Mike needs to get back on the HORSE, not whores ! LMAO
 
I like to listening to your show and I am very glad you are doing this ABR show. I was excited when I saw you were having someone from the BCA on last night.
for me that is where my excitement ended however. In fact I was so annoyed by what I heard or what I didn't hear might be putting it better, that I turned the show
off after that segment.

I wish I had heard at least one tough question or even a tough follow up question when an answer was less than illuminating.
He said they spend a lot of money on rule books and they are about to put out a new one after a rules committee meeting of the WPA that they sit on.

Another question I still don't know the answer to is if the WPA puts out a rule book why can't the BCA just piggy back on that one, do they have to spend a lot money
putting out their own. If the BCA and WPA rules aren't the same them make them the same. I think they should be anyway so there could be consistency throughout
the World.

I see no reason for this big expense why have an actual rule book at all? Everybody has a computer or smart phone these days. Can't they just have
the rules available on line? They even said they have a rule app now.

When asked what he thought was the main problem, he said something like well I don't use the word problem. What word do you use then is he simply
going to keep passing over the word problem until he can jump right to the word catastrophe.

I can only recall him using the word Pro player once in the entire interview, was it just me or did it seem to anyone else like it did to me, that he was
making a concentrated effort to not say Pro player. All I kept hearing was we support play, I've never heard pool referred to as play in all the years I've been around the game.

In all fairness maybe he was using the word play over and over as a way of getting himself ready for the day there won't be any PRO PLAYERS left,
and he figured now was a good time to prepare because it shouldn't be far off!

I wonder how much their new rule app cost? Is that a money maker for the BCA? Or is that a waste of money? I don't know.

He says he doesn't pay much attention to what people say about the BCA because he knows how hard they work for Pool. I find when organization is doing a good job with something good things are said, no? Maybe he should listen. If he listened to what is being said maybe they wouldn't think they are doing such a bang up job. All I ever read on their press releases is what good things they are doing, a lot of back slapping and giving of awards to each other. Frankly the last release that I read they were fawning over some great new idea, and it didn't sound great at all. in fact it was so great that I can't even remember what it was.

I didn't hear one question about selling the BCA pool league that could have helped them raise money to put on a tournament or tournaments per year.
He did however say they don't have the money to put on tournaments right now but they would like to in the future.

Perhaps a good question would have been weren't you making money off of the BCA league and do you think it was a wise decision to sell the league in
the first place. Or how is the BCA planning on making more money if they want to put tournaments on in the future but can't afford to now.

I do remember when pressed a little he finally said not that they would approach the players but if the players want to approach them about forming a players ass.
they would listen. Again it seems to me that they as the BCA should be the ones approaching the players about forming a players ass.

He also said he thinks that acting out hurts the players and the sports image. LOL next he said he hadn't really thought about any wording or how the wording
should be, REALLY?

Well I guess now that I think about it that does make sense since you aren't trying to get a players ass. formed so the Pro players are under under the BCA.
Wait that makes no sense what so ever. Why wouldn't you being trying to reach out to the Pro players and get a players ass. formed under the BCA and set some standards as to what acting out is or is not acceptable. Especially sense you stated you thought acting out hurt the players and Pools image. Those seem to be two contradicting statements to me.

I just follow and love this sport as I'm sure many of you do also. These are the things that jumped out at me and my opinions.

Again I am glad that ABR show is on and you are trying to do something good for Pool! Just maybe put a segment like this on last, so more people listen the whole show.
This is way to long oh well, not your show, what I wrote.

Come on, don't sit on the fence say what you mean :)
 
I found the talk about the rule book interesting. They spend money on putting one out. That's fine, but it begs a couple of questions. Who uses their rules or rule books? The BCA Pool Leagues have their own book of rules and decisions. The WPA puts their rules online (Which should be redundant to BCA rules anyway). Every tournament plays by a different rule set that is given out before the tournament is played. What is the point? Why bother?
 
well good-morning-to-me! coffee & smut talk!
general concensus @ Mosconi, was that Boyes has the best ass. (in his tight little English tailored stretchy GQ pants) and Dennis has the biggest biceps. (i know, cause i broke my thumbnail off backwards on it)

Do you ever add anything to a thread? Never seen someone who posted on a forum as much as you, purely for the attention.

I found the talk about the rule book interesting. They spend money on putting one out. That's fine, but it begs a couple of questions. Who uses their rules or rule books? The BCA Pool Leagues have their own book of rules and decisions. The WPA puts their rules online (Which should be redundant to BCA rules anyway). Every tournament plays by a different rule set that is given out before the tournament is played. What is the point? Why bother?

I think the point is to try to standardize the rules. Unfortunately, there's no enforcement of this standardization, and tournament directors just do what they want.

I use the book myself for my tournaments, though I do modify the 8-ball rules a little to make them more familiar to the local players. It also helps to have a real definition when explaining standard called shot.
 
I think the point is to try to standardize the rules. Unfortunately, there's no enforcement of this standardization, and tournament directors just do what they want.

I use the book myself for my tournaments, though I do modify the 8-ball rules a little to make them more familiar to the local players. It also helps to have a real definition when explaining standard called shot.

Of course you're right. The lack of standardization is the problem, but if standardization is the endgame what are they doing to achieve it other than putting out another rule set? Truthfully the lack of enforcement of standardization in rules ultimately comes from their lack of legitimacy as a rule making body. Rule making/governing bodies in other sports don't double as trade organizations. They actually stick to their original mission of protecting and growing the game. This is will remain the case until something else takes up that mantle.
 
Of course you're right. The lack of standardization is the problem, but if standardization is the endgame what are they doing to achieve it other than putting out another rule set? Truthfully the lack of enforcement of standardization in rules ultimately comes from their lack of legitimacy as a rule making body. Rule making/governing bodies in other sports don't double as trade organizations. They actually stick to their original mission of protecting and growing the game. This is will remain the case until something else takes up that mantle.

You're right. Either a new organization needs to be formed (and that takes a lot of cheddar, and how to get that goes beyond the scope of this post), or a house cleaning of the BCA board needs to be done.
 
Of course you're right. The lack of standardization is the problem, but if standardization is the endgame what are they doing to achieve it other than putting out another rule set? Truthfully the lack of enforcement of standardization in rules ultimately comes from their lack of legitimacy as a rule making body. Rule making/governing bodies in other sports don't double as trade organizations. They actually stick to their original mission of protecting and growing the game. This is will remain the case until something else takes up that mantle.

I think it would be fine if they did both ( trade and "play" ) if they could do both effectively, because at least at one point they did do both effectively. But, as Rob mentioned, several unfortunate elements all came together at once, rendering them more or less helpless when it comes to certain functions.

As an example, the professional pool activities and support have all but ceased, not because they wanted it to, but because they had no choice. No money, no support for pro pool. And to make matters worse, the pro players have all but abandoned the BCA as well, because they also had no choice but to fend for themselves, so to speak.

But that situation, which is completely reversible, believe it or not, was actually made worse, with the players attempting, via Charlie Williams' half-baked idea of creating their "own" player association and creating a new pseudo- points system. It has done nothing but drive the players further into the ditch and fragment the existing system.

And, to add insult to injury, the BCA (Ivan Lee specifically) was consulted when this new players association was formed, and (probably against his better judgement) Ivan graciously gave them a ton of good advice about how to properly execute their plan, which they expeditiously and thoroughly ignored, obviously to their own detriment, and where did it get them?

Here. Which is nowhere.

I guess the male pros needed to learn their lesson the hard way. But at the end of the day, also as Rob and Ivan have both stated, they (BCA) are perfectly willing to work with them if they chose to do so. And at this point I don't see why they don't. Are there hurdles? Hell yes. But both parties have everything to gain and nothing much left to lose.

Working with the BCA or not, the men should take a few lessons from the WPBA and start over, with their own source of income, instead of waiting for the world to feed them, or standing on the corner with a lemonade stand, or marching around with protest signs wondering why "nobody loves them" anymore.

Then of course you have the rogues; who "don't need no stinking badges" and would rather sit in their own feces than stand up and do something about their own future..

Blame the BCA? It sure seems to be popular, but are they really the cause, or the victim? Blame the players? It sure seems to be popular, but are they the cause or the victim?

Ask the BCA what they are doing in the pool world and at least they have an answer, albeit a short one. Ask the players what they are doing in the pool world and what will their answer be?
 
Of course you're right. The lack of standardization is the problem, but if standardization is the endgame what are they doing to achieve it other than putting out another rule set? Truthfully the lack of enforcement of standardization in rules ultimately comes from their lack of legitimacy as a rule making body. Rule making/governing bodies in other sports don't double as trade organizations. They actually stick to their original mission of protecting and growing the game. This is will remain the case until something else takes up that mantle.

Although am not a player and maybe my opinion means zero, I am in favor of standardizing. Rules are one thing equipment is another. It is so hard to standardize equipment. Pocket size, cloth?
 
Although am not a player and maybe my opinion means zero, I am in favor of standardizing. Rules are one thing equipment is another. It is so hard to standardize equipment. Pocket size, cloth?

I'm absolutely in favor of standardizing rules. It would absolutely make it easier for everyone. Players. Tournament Directors. Fans. One of the things that always puzzled me about pool is why every tournament has different rules. I've never understood it. I would think tournaments would want to eliminate confusion over the rules as much as possible as a practical matter. Largely I believe it's due to the fact that I stated previously. There is no organization in pool with enough legitimacy or gravitas to make rules that everyone accepts prima facie. Equipment standards are different. Some standards could be set by rule makers i.e. what is legal and not legal equipment, but other standards and setups would probably have to come from a Tour organization. For example the USGA and R&A set the rules of golf and deem equipment legal. The PGA Tour sets up the courses in regards to length, rough height, green speed, etc.
 
I'm absolutely in favor of standardizing rules. It would absolutely make it easier for everyone. Players. Tournament Directors. Fans. One of the things that always puzzled me about pool is why every tournament has different rules. I've never understood it. I would think tournaments would want to eliminate confusion over the rules as much as possible as a practical matter. Largely I believe it's due to the fact that I stated previously. There is no organization in pool with enough legitimacy or gravitas to make rules that everyone accepts prima facie. Equipment standards are different. Some standards could be set by rule makers i.e. what is legal and not legal equipment, but other standards and setups would probably have to come from a Tour organization. For example the USGA and R&A set the rules of golf and deem equipment legal. The PGA Tour sets up the courses in regards to length, rough height, green speed, etc.

Again, although in favor of standardizing I think at this point only rules could be done. equipment would maybe lose events. Example, Lets say I have 25k to add to tourney but that's all. I have to hold it at a pool room and that room has Larger pockets than the rules allow. We can't expect pool rooms to change their pocket size at their cost. So what do you do? Not have the event? I may be wrong but it is not easy to get everyone to pay to have equipment comply.
 
Again, although in favor of standardizing I think at this point only rules could be done. equipment would maybe lose events. Example, Lets say I have 25k to add to tourney but that's all. I have to hold it at a pool room and that room has Larger pockets than the rules allow. We can't expect pool rooms to change their pocket size at their cost. So what do you do? Not have the event? I may be wrong but it is not easy to get everyone to pay to have equipment comply.

I agree that more than simple table standards (length, width, height etc) opens a big can of worms. "Oh, the only location currently available to you has 4 1/2" pockets instead of pro 4 1/4" pockets? Sorry, we can't sanction your event." Man, that would be instNt money lost.
 
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