Beat or Match Mosconi's 526 at the BCAPL Nationals Win Cash!

[lfigueroa]

It doesn't matter if Bobby is a billionaire or sleeping in his car. It is still his choice to do what he wants to do. How many other people on this forum video all of their practice sessions and make them available to the public?
We also don't know if the room owner would even want the video equipment in his room.
I'm just saying that the decision is not up to any one on this forum other than Bobby. It is really none of our business and I stand behind whatever Bobby decides.

His choice indeed.

To answer your question: I'll guess that not too many people on this forum video all their practice sessions. Perhaps some, but certainly not all. However, very, very, very few people on this forum are claiming the kind of numbers Bobby is claiming either. And frankly, given your basic pool hall, what with all the drunks and loud music and general mayhem described, I doubt a little ol' video camera is going to set anyone off, so that should not be much of an issue.

So I'm just saying that, as you say, the decision is not up to anyone on this forum. Never was, never will be. It's up to Bobby. Perhaps it's only our business because he's touting a lot of big numbers without a shred of evidence. And in the era of YouTube... that don't fly very far. Like you said -- it's up to him.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Perk]

1.) It is always a bar atmospher and his table is stuck in a corner with two tables kitty whompus to it.

2.) I do hope that someday I get to see a 200 put up against me and if I got out more I would think that would happen. I would bet I see that before I put up 75 against him.
QUOTE]



1.) What does kitty whompus mean?

2.) Ok, bet $500. I trust you. Just let me know when I win or lose..

As to the wager its interesting however I do not wish to bet against my own progression as a pool player.

Urban dictionary can explain kitty whompus. Looks like I used the term properly.

kittywampus 68 up, 44 down
crazy word from south-western wisconsin meaning-off-balenced, uncentered, or a general state of confusion.
(south western wisconsinite)o man that picture is all kittywampus
(normal person)wtf?

 

[strtshtr]

perk,
i grew up nowhere near wisconsin, but i knew precisely what you meant. our expression, in pennsylvania dutch country, was catty whompus (i had never seen it in print before) and it means "sideways" or "askew". in fact, i use the expression to this day. "she parked the car all catty whompus"

so you know, there are abnormal people elsewhere

regards


As to the wager its interesting however I do not wish to bet against my own progression as a pool player.

Urban dictionary can explain kitty whompus. Looks like I used the term properly.

kittywampus 68 up, 44 down
crazy word from south-western wisconsin meaning-off-balenced, uncentered, or a general state of confusion.
(south western wisconsinite)o man that picture is all kittywampus
(normal person)wtf?[/QUOTE]

 

[elvicash]

Lets all get back on track cause this thread has went a little bit kitty wampus for a while. We are almost off kilter.

The original thread is about the BCA, 14.1 and Mosconi's great 526 run. I hope some one runs a huge number and posts up a 526 or more in the next few years. If and when it happens I think it will have to be a player who works pretty quick. Noting the earlier reference to Mosconi who said he ran balls on a 15 second pace. I think that quick pace is a major plus to run that big number. I think it will be very doubtful if and when the Mosconi run is surpassed that the shooter will be a grinder who agonizes constantly and drags it out. Working quicker is more likely to keep the energy and consistent not such an ebb and flow. I have seen many runs in the last few years and most any run of a hundred plus would wind down and end as the player got slower and put doubt in their mind. It seemed like the pace brings them back to reality and then the miss would come. I play a little slow and I think that affects my efforts to break into the 40's. What do you think of pace as it affects a high run. I know I prefer watching a quick paced run vs a slow run the slow run is boring to watch.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lets all get back on track cause this thread has went a little bit kitty wampus for a while. We are almost off kilter.

The original thread is about the BCA, 14.1 and Mosconi's great 526 run. I hope some one runs a huge number and posts up a 526 or more in the next few years. If and when it happens I think it will have to be a player who works pretty quick. Noting the earlier reference to Mosconi who said he ran balls on a 15 second pace. I think that quick pace is a major plus to run that big number. I think it will be very doubtful if and when the Mosconi run is surpassed that the shooter will be a grinder who agonizes constantly and drags it out. Working quicker is more likely to keep the energy and consistent not such an ebb and flow. I have seen many runs in the last few years and most any run of a hundred plus would wind down and end as the player got slower and put doubt in their mind. It seemed like the pace brings them back to reality and then the miss would come. I play a little slow and I think that affects my efforts to break into the 40's. What do you think of pace as it affects a high run. I know I prefer watching a quick paced run vs a slow run the slow run is boring to watch.

Also consider that his four ball a minute pace included racking balls, so Mosconi was actually faster than 15 seconds a ball. Every time I saw him, once he "got the bit between his teeth" so to speak, he'd practically run to the next shot, sometimes, gracefully backing up around one side of the table, or getting in a pattern where he could shoot several shots, barely moving his feet a few inches one way or another. He also did not fret over his break shots, getting down and firing them in with barely a glance.

As to your question, I don't know. Some guys start off and kinda grind through a run at the same speed from start to finish. But a lot of others, (meself included) tend to shoot "fast and loose" the first few racks and then start to slow up and ponder more as the number starts to get more significant.

Who knows, maybe the the biggest issue for a long run approaching the record would be the battery in the video camera

Lou Figueroa

 

[elvicash]

I would like to hear from some of our members who have ran +100 what they think of pace and high runs. i think Mosconi running balls at 15 sec/ball including racking is tremendous. I think his pace had a lot to do with him staying successful for so many balls, if someone did that at like 30 sec/ball pace they would have to be dead in punch for nearly 5 hours. Mosconi was tremendous for running the 526 but his mind/focus was needed for less than 2 1/2 hours. I think that helped him commit the run. Number of balls not with standing who has had a high run that lasted more than 3 hours of continuous shooting with out taking a break and how long was the run. What about guys like Eufemia and Cranfield what was there pace like for those high runs.

When I run a high 30+ run (my high is 37) it seems to be over in a blink of the eye and I am usually having thing go my way for the first couple of racks and doubt is not in my mind and when it rears its head, I slow down and invariably I miss within a couple of shots.

 

[nashville14:1]

eufemia's pace

i never had the pleasure of seeing eufemia play, but i heard he played slow. someone who actually saw him please comment.

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Steady Pace

I would like to hear from some of our members who have ran +100 what they think of pace and high runs. i think Mosconi running balls at 15 sec/ball including racking is tremendous. I think his pace had a lot to do with him staying successful for so many balls, if someone did that at like 30 sec/ball pace they would have to be dead in punch for nearly 5 hours. Mosconi was tremendous for running the 526 but his mind/focus was needed for less than 2 1/2 hours. I think that helped him commit the run. Number of balls not with standing who has had a high run that lasted more than 3 hours of continuous shooting with out taking a break and how long was the run. What about guys like Eufemia and Cranfield what was there pace like for those high runs.

When I run a high 30+ run (my high is 37) it seems to be over in a blink of the eye and I am usually having thing go my way for the first couple of racks and doubt is not in my mind and when it rears its head, I slow down and invariably I miss within a couple of shots.

I do believe that 14.1 matches should have a reasonable time limit shot clock. Slow players can destroy any type of pool game. Now, I am no where near the level as the players mention above but here is a video that I made of a 82 ball run that I made in 15 mins & 10 secs.
I have not seen anyone come near the time since i have been here on the Forum. To me it was a good steady pace.
http://vimeo.com/13748698

 

[elvicash]

JS plays at a real nice quick pace 3-4 minutes per rack so his hundreds are 30 min or so.

Some other great players take a while such as Alex P. He can run a lot of balls but there is not really the feeling of pace and flow he does it on sheer will and grind and seems to have more work doing it.

I am going to try to work faster especially when inspecting the table and choosing a shot

Evaluate decide commit execute sub 20.

I am getting off AZ and heading to pool room to run some balls.

 

[sfleinen]

I do believe that 14.1 matches should have a reasonable time limit shot clock. Slow players can destroy any type of pool game. Now, I am no where near the level as the players mention above but here is a video that I made of a 82 ball run that I made in 15 mins & 10 secs.
I have not seen anyone come near the time since i have been here on the Forum. To me it was a good steady pace.
http://vimeo.com/13748698

Mike:

That's a-l-m-o-s-t the pace of Dave Daya -- the "Tony Drago" of 14.1.

I would say of modern-day players, Dave Daya has the quickest and most-enjoyable-to-watch pace of any 14.1 player.

For yesteryear? Lou Butera, most definitely. In fact, it is one of Lou's records that still stands in this regard -- in 1973, Lou ran 150-and-out against Allen Hopkins in 21 minutes.

I'm not nearly the pace of these guys, but even with my lowly 112, I pride myself in that run *not* being a deliberate pace by any stretch of the imagination. Although I was so in the zone (shooting from subconscious, and not aware of time), I was told (by the room owner) that I did it in about 30 minutes.

-Sean

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Interesting

Mike:

That's a-l-m-o-s-t the pace of Dave Daya -- the "Tony Drago" of 14.1.

I would say of modern-day players, Dave Daya has the quickest and most-enjoyable-to-watch pace of any 14.1 player.

For yesteryear? Lou Butera, most definitely. In fact, it is one of Lou's records that still stands in this regard -- in 1973, Lou ran 150-and-out against Allen Hopkins in 21 minutes.

I'm not nearly the pace of these guys, but even with my lowly 112, I pride myself in that run *not* being a deliberate pace by any stretch of the imagination. Although I was so in the zone (shooting from subconscious, and not aware of time), I was told (by the room owner) that I did it in about 30 minutes.

-Sean

I watched Tony Drago play on TV many times. I think that is just way too fast but if that works for him (and it does) great.
I was pretty much in a zone while running those balls. I was 18 balls away from 100. I went back and watched the time of the first 18 balls pocketed (2 mins 45 secs.) Add another minute 15 secs. (for the heck of it). I would of easily had 100 in 19 mins. (can't believe I missed the shot that I did) I had a whole open table. (82 balls in 15m/10s=11 secs per shot).
PS: I wish that I could of seen you run that 112. I would totally enjoy watching & shooting some pool with you.

 

[nashville14:1]

a modest proposal to reach the magic number

Establish a long running, low intensity, low budget, hopefully profitable event along these lines:
Set up a loose pocket 4x8, about the same difficulty as the Mosconi 526 record table, with continuous video recording. Open to all with some entry fee. Time frame could be daily, weekly or monthly to suit the needs of the vednue/sponsors, until 527 is reached. Offer some prize for a verified 527 or greater run and maybe an intermediate prize for the longest run on video. Part of the reward could be a big portion of profits from CD sales of videos, both with and without commentary, maybe several versions with different commentators, maybe a german language edition (isn't germany the last stronghold of 14.1?) Winner would have some good publicity and maybe some work doing exhibitions. Press releases with teaser footage could be sent to news organizations around the world. The winner would get more attractive manufactures endorsement offers. Or even to get appearance money at tournaments for the first time in quite a while.
Note that are now some affordable cameras that record god hi frame rate HD in pretty low light, so not as much lighting might be needed. but those camera cost a whopping $1000-$1500 or so (Panasonic Lumix gh2, what the indie film makers are using today). A 1950s Brunswick sportking 4x8 would also cost another $600 or more plus transport, professional setup, cloth, rubber, maybe not much over $2000 for the table ready to go. Of course a similar spec modern table might be provided by a current maker of top quality tables This could happen almost anywhere ideally independent of some big event, so it could run long enough to get the desired result. Maybe at some poolroom that wanted to increase traffic, or a grand opening of a new pool room, if there ever is another new pool room. Such a venue and setup, even with a very small audience would have more credibility and publicity value than a run recorded on video in a private home. Also lots of good publicity for the player/poolroom and/or promoters.
I feel sure that given enough incentive to attract the worlds top players and enough time, one of those great players would top Willie's easy table run of 526, especially if done on a table just as easy. Of course a few would scoff at the idea of the easy table but the average player would be impressed with a 527, I sure would be. Maybe some of forum members here would pledge a few bucks toward prize money to in the event of an over 526 run, just to sweeten the pot. The currrent 4.5x9 hi run challenges limited to the 10 days of so of the overall event are not yielding the magic number and the accompanying publicity benefits and increased enthusiasm for the game that they might.
In snooker the first 147 was a big deal. then the first televised 147 was a big deal and over half a century later any 147 is still a pretty big deal even though it is 36 balls and takes 5 to 15 minutes.
Just my 2 cents worth. I am just an enthusiast with a hi run of only 43 balls. Someone who knows much more than me please weigh in with an opinion on why this would or would not work.
Jr

 

[lfigueroa]

Establish a long running, low intensity, low budget, hopefully profitable event along these lines:
Set up a loose pocket 4x8, about the same difficulty as the Mosconi 526 record table, with continuous video recording. Open to all with some entry fee. Time frame could be daily, weekly or monthly to suit the needs of the vednue/sponsors, until 527 is reached. Offer some prize for a verified 527 or greater run and maybe an intermediate prize for the longest run on video. Part of the reward could be a big portion of profits from CD sales of videos, both with and without commentary, maybe several versions with different commentators, maybe a german language edition (isn't germany the last stronghold of 14.1?) Winner would have some good publicity and maybe some work doing exhibitions. Press releases with teaser footage could be sent to news organizations around the world. The winner would get more attractive manufactures endorsement offers. Or even to get appearance money at tournaments for the first time in quite a while.
Note that are now some affordable cameras that record god hi frame rate HD in pretty low light, so not as much lighting might be needed. but those camera cost a whopping $1000-$1500 or so (Panasonic Lumix gh2, what the indie film makers are using today). A 1950s Brunswick sportking 4x8 would also cost another $600 or more plus transport, professional setup, cloth, rubber, maybe not much over $2000 for the table ready to go. Of course a similar spec modern table might be provided by a current maker of top quality tables This could happen almost anywhere ideally independent of some big event, so it could run long enough to get the desired result. Maybe at some poolroom that wanted to increase traffic, or a grand opening of a new pool room, if there ever is another new pool room. Such a venue and setup, even with a very small audience would have more credibility and publicity value than a run recorded on video in a private home. Also lots of good publicity for the player/poolroom and/or promoters.
I feel sure that given enough incentive to attract the worlds top players and enough time, one of those great players would top Willie's easy table run of 526, especially if done on a table just as easy. Of course a few would scoff at the idea of the easy table but the average player would be impressed with a 527, I sure would be. Maybe some of forum members here would pledge a few bucks toward prize money to in the event of an over 526 run, just to sweeten the pot. The currrent 4.5x9 hi run challenges limited to the 10 days of so of the overall event are not yielding the magic number and the accompanying publicity benefits and increased enthusiasm for the game that they might.
In snooker the first 147 was a big deal. then the first televised 147 was a big deal and over half a century later any 147 is still a pretty big deal even though it is 36 balls and takes 5 to 15 minutes.
Just my 2 cents worth. I am just an enthusiast with a hi run of only 43 balls. Someone who knows much more than me please weigh in with an opinion on why this would or would not work.
Jr

Great idea... with one caveat: anyone trying gets the same number of innings it took Willie.

That would be: one

Lou Figueroa

 

[nashville14:1]

one inning for 526

i guess the record shows Mosconi made the 526 on his first shot after the break. so one inning on that day. Mosconi was, as we all know on exhibition tours, perhaps from end of WWII for many years going forward . he played Nashville in 1962 and again around 1964. the '62 was a morning show and an afternoon show. Each time he had several shots before making his usual 100+ run. so from about 1945 until he was past his prime he had lots of chances and no doubt made lots of big exhibition runs that were pretty routine for one of the greatest at or near the peak of his game. i don't think we should worry about how many tries it takes one of todays champions to get there. i bet after 300 or 400 balls, statistics and the law of averages starts to make it very tough even for those best ever players on their best day.
526 is over 37 racks. of course there have been quite a few 20 to 30+ rack runs in 14.1 over the years, on various size tables.
how many racks run in other games 9-ball,10-ball, 8-ball, winner breaks? all these games have in common the need to get on a ball to continue after the break. not easy to do for more than an hour.
jr

 

[lfigueroa]

i guess the record shows Mosconi made the 526 on his first shot after the break. so one inning on that day. Mosconi was, as we all know on exhibition tours, perhaps from end of WWII for many years going forward . he played Nashville in 1962 and again around 1964. the '62 was a morning show and an afternoon show. Each time he had several shots before making his usual 100+ run. so from about 1945 until he was past his prime he had lots of chances and no doubt made lots of big exhibition runs that were pretty routine for one of the greatest at or near the peak of his game. i don't think we should worry about how many tries it takes one of todays champions to get there. i bet after 300 or 400 balls, statistics and the law of averages starts to make it very tough even for those best ever players on their best day.
526 is over 37 racks. of course there have been quite a few 20 to 30+ rack runs in 14.1 over the years, on various size tables.
how many racks run in other games 9-ball,10-ball, 8-ball, winner breaks? all these games have in common the need to get on a ball to continue after the break. not easy to do for more than an hour.
jr

No, he did not have or take multiple shots at a high run.

In all the times I saw him, he'd run 100 (in at most two innings, usually one) and then stop and do trick shots. IOW, he didn't reach 100 and keep going at every show he did. For unknown reasons he did that night in Springfield, Ohio.

If I had to guess I'd take a stab and say that the reason he did it was because he always ran 100 at his exhibitions, or if he ran out and hadn't yet run 100 he'd ask the crowd if they wanted to see a 100 ball run and then he'd just keep going and then stop. I'm thinking that on that particular night, Mosconi got to 100 and then probably said something like, "It's only a 4'x8' so I'll run 200 instead of just 100" and then was urged to keep going by the crowd. But that's just a guess.

Lou Figueroa

 

[dmgwalsh]

Mike:

That's a-l-m-o-s-t the pace of Dave Daya -- the "Tony Drago" of 14.1.

I would say of modern-day players, Dave Daya has the quickest and most-enjoyable-to-watch pace of any 14.1 player.

For yesteryear? Lou Butera, most definitely. In fact, it is one of Lou's records that still stands in this regard -- in 1973, Lou ran 150-and-out against Allen Hopkins in 21 minutes.

I'm not nearly the pace of these guys, but even with my lowly 112, I pride myself in that run *not* being a deliberate pace by any stretch of the imagination. Although I was so in the zone (shooting from subconscious, and not aware of time), I was told (by the room owner) that I did it in about 30 minutes.

-Sean

This thread has been everywhere. I kind of liked when it zigged back to fast runs.

JS usually does 100 in 22 or 23 minutes.

Here is a flyer from the past that celebrates Lou Butera's speed.

 

[sjm]

In truth, I think that the pace of play is ridiculously slow today, and each year it seems that it gets slower.

No, this is not a generation of notoriously slow players like Dick Lane or Frank Taberski, but I've been to 15 different events since 1976 that were either PPPA World 14.1 championships, US Open 14.1 championships , or Dragon 14.1 championships, and there are more slow players today than ever before.

The sad result in 2011 was that practically nobody witnessed the final, which didn't begin until close to midnight on the final day and lasted until about 3:00 AM.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I love watching great players, and I especially love 14.1. When guys play so slow that you're losing my my interest it's a huge problem. Unfortunately that's a rather frequent occurance.

 

[Dan Harriman]

You definitely would get a chuckle, I'm terrible.lol You're a great player, even Schmidt has said that many times.
Not sure what the rest of your post means but on the way home from the shrink maybe you should stop somewhere and get spelling lessons. It's swagger with two g's bud. Maybe we should post up ten grand against who scores higher on an I.Q. test.
But in the meantime, let's get back to what the post was about before you're usual schmidt rant derailed us (obsess much Dan?)- straight pool, runs on video for people like me who have never run a hundred, normal folks like Bobby and John, etc.
Thanks for the comic relief though..

You probably are more intelligent than me, I would guess that I am more aware when I am in the midst of right winged piggies who are afraid of any other opinion other than their own. People who brag about being smart are usually not real wise - you probably feel right at home in the group of piggies to which I am referring to. I don't think you can teach me much, but feel free to spread your wordly oinker knowledge . Is oinker an adjective or personal pro noun - I figured you would be the authority on it as you do seem to not sweat about your swinery. What is the difference between a hog and a pig - are they one in the same? Your knowledge that would pertain to the game of pocket billiards would be as useful as two tits on a boar. Comprenda?

 

[cbaumann212]

In the years I was in law enforcement, I had to discharge my weapon in two situations. One of those people lost their life. Not a day goes by, in fact not an hour goes by when that doesn't enter my heart or my mind. I had no other choice in either situation. The person that lost their life would have taken mine and my partner's life if I hadn't pulled my trigger first. I guess the fact that I saved my life, my partner's life, and the lives of everybody else at that scene makes me a real assshole.

Oh... and before you accuse me or group me into some other stupid crap - I could have cared less about weed when I was a cop. I became a cop because one of my closest friends was murdered by an ex-boyfriend. My thing was helping people, not killing them. I helped start many domestic abuse programs while I was in law enforcement - many of those programs are still in effect. I tried to make the most of my time - and I did everything in my power to assist people in need. I did that tirelessly and I did that from my heart, not my wallet.

At the time that I was a police officer, I had my own business, and my home and cars were paid for. Trust me, I didn't do it for the paycheck.

From the two situations where I shot someone - I was sued a total of 8 times for 2 bullets. In the situation where the person did not die - he was lunging at another officer and his own mother with a knife in one hand and a broken beer bottle in the other. after saving his mother's life, she turned around and sued me civilly - and she also sued the City.

I must be a real asshole for taking the actions that I did, but she should have thanked me for having the life in her body the day she signed the court papers to sue me. That's what the judge said to her when he tossed out her lawsuit.

I do regret discharging my weapon and injuring her son. The stress from her civil suit alone destroyed my private business, my personal savings, my family, and eventually my motivation to work in law enforcement. All because I made split second decision to save the life of someone that I didn't even know.

It's real easy to sit back and point fingers and group people together and second guess people that have been in situations that require split second judgement calls where they have other lives (not only their own) to take into consideration.

It takes a very weak-minded person to accuse me of selling out freedom for a paycheck, when you have no basis for making such a statement - you have no idea how I conducted myself as a police officer - you have no idea why I chose to become one in the first place - and you have no idea why I left law enforcement. Yet you sit there and say idiotic things such as that - grouping myself and Mike into some stereotype that is designed to make you feel better about what you are saying.

Oh... and BTW, the idiot that I shot a split second before he sliced his mother's chest open with a Michelob bottle... he committed suicide two years after the law suit was tossed out. I had been out of law enforcement for about 4 years by then, but it didn't stop the guy's mother from trying to hold me and the City responsible for his suicide.

IMO, people like that are shitt. I also think I'm right about that.

You don't know me, nor do you know anything about me - and I will guarantee you that don't have half the balls that it took to do 1/1000th of the work I did as a soldier or as a law enforcement officer. It's easier for you to sit back there and toss BS out there and hold myself (and everybody else in law enforcement) responsible for situations we had nothing to do with. That is because you are ignorant. I have been on the front lines. I have put my ass on the line night after night and day after day. I have knowledge of law enforcement - both positive and negative. You don't - and you don't have a clue about me or anybody else that wears a badge. For that reason, I have no problem telling you to STFU.

Congratulations. You are the first person I have had to say that to in over 15 years of being online - and you deserve it.

Quite possibly the post of the year! Thanks for your service! Green-a-comin!