Been playing a monster

If you like to see what an A player can do, play him and keep supporting him, If an A player does not get action, he will not be an A player for too long. People got to survive, if you love pool, support it by playing the better players. Hope you learn something from Chip...
 
Steven,
If it helps, I have received 11-5 from top players and similar weight, playing one pocket. Some matches I have won and some I have lost. If playing the better players with big weight makes you a sucker, I guess it makes me one as well.

Gambling is different than practicing competitively, much different. It's not better, it's just different. It's not necessary for everyone but it's important to some of us for various reasons.

You're only a loser if you lose all of the time.

You're only a nit if you win all of the time. :D (OK, a nit is just a smart gambler. :D)
 
Gmanpoke said:
Well,

I have a wife of 28 years, two daughters with one in medical school, and three mortgages (of course two of the houses are rentals). I guess I'm a sucker.

Yes, I can find people who will play one pocket for shits and grins, but most of those people, I run over. There are a few friend who play better than me that will play for free. But, most of the top level players won't play for free. I'm sure you could be at a tourny and one of the top pros would probably play a game or two. That's not what I'm talking about here. I want to play these top players for 3 or 4 hours at each session. Top players won't play like that for free, unless you are really good friends. I want them to show me something. I want to believe they are playing there top game, but I doubt they are.

Steven
Click to expand...

Hey, if you're a bucks up kind of guy, go for it, but paying some guy to beat your brains out on a pool table is no way to learn One Pocket. :)
 
JoeyA said:
Steven,
If it helps, I have received 11-5 from top players and similar weight, playing one pocket. Some matches I have won and some I have lost. If playing the better players with big weight makes you a sucker, I guess it makes me one as well.

Gambling is different than practicing competitively, much different. It's not better, it's just different. It's not necessary for everyone but it's important to some of us for various reasons.

You're only a loser if you lose all of the time.

You're only a nit if you win all of the time. :D (OK, a nit is just a smart gambler. :D)
Click to expand...

Thanks Joey. I really appreciate your comments. There are a couple of responses in this thread about 10-4 being a big spot. It started getting me concerned about the spot, but your validation helps me.

I'm not sure everyone has a true understanding and appreciation of the skills and ability of these top one pocket players. Sylver Ochoa could give a "B" player 12-4 and its not a fair game. Chip is probably a ball or maybe a little more behind Sylver in one pocket, but IMO Chip would rob Sylver playing even rotation.

I want to believe I'm a "B" player right now. So, Chip giving me 10-4 is not a big spot relative to our respective skills. In fact, I think I would rather play Sylver 12-4 than Chip 10-4.

I play some good solid one pocket players that play Chip 10-6 and its hard for them to get there. The good solid one pocket players will give me 10-6 and on a tight table its a tough game for me. On a loose (did I use the correct word here:D) table I think I have the best of it (maybe that's wishful thinking).

I don't want everyone to think I play these monsters everyday all day long. But, I do play them sometimes. These are fine young men who are generous with their time and knowledge.

Joey, one of these days I'll make down there for one of the tournaments (just to watch), and I would really like if you and I could play some one pocket. We don't have to play for anything, but if you want we could play something real cheap or even a set for dinner.

Steven
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Hey, if you're a bucks up kind of guy, go for it, but paying some guy to beat your brains out on a pool table is no way to learn One Pocket. :)
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Ok, so in your vast knowledge of learning and more specifically learning one pocket, how should I change my improvement process be. Before you answer go back and re-read each of my responses. I don't just play people who beat my brains out. I do try to play strong player who usually play better than me, but the weigh makes it an even game.

Now, as I've said, I'm never going to get enough weigh to beat these monsters because we play cheap. If I was willing to put 4 or 5 dimes on the light, I could negotiate a better spot. BUT, AS I'VE SAID REPEATEDLY, ITS NOT ABOUT MAKING MONEY, ITS ABOUT BECOMING A BETTER PLAYER.

I maybe wrong, but I think one big difference between you and me: I'm willing to risk humility and failure in my pursuit. As I have always told my daughters, you have to live life. There are no do overs. Don't be afraid to risk failure.

Remember, one of my daughters is in medical school. She is willing to risk failure and the humility that comes with it to pursuit her dreams.

Respectfully,

Steven
 
Gmanpoke said:
Ok, so in your vast knowledge of learning and more specifically learning one pocket, how should I change my improvement process be. Before you answer go back and re-read each of my responses. I don't just play people who beat my brains out. I do try to play strong player who usually play better than me, but the weigh makes it an even game.

Now, as I've said, I'm never going to get enough weigh to beat these monsters because we play cheap. If I was willing to put 4 or 5 dimes on the light, I could negotiate a better spot. BUT, AS I'VE SAID REPEATEDLY, ITS NOT ABOUT MAKING MONEY, ITS ABOUT BECOMING A BETTER PLAYER.

I maybe wrong, but I think one big difference between you and me: I'm willing to risk humility and failure in my pursuit. As I have always told my daughters, you have to live life. There are no do overs. Don't be afraid to risk failure.

Remember, one of my daughters is in medical school. She is willing to risk failure and the humility that comes with it to pursuit her dreams.

Respectfully,

Steven
Click to expand...

Well, I went back and re-read your first post and if Compton is playing you 10 to 4, and still cleaning your clock, I think I'd find somebody to teach me how to get whitey a little safer and pay him.
As to humility and failure, they do not exist in my world. Just ask my three ex-wives.
Good luck. :)
 
Gmanpoke said:
Thanks Joey. I really appreciate your comments. There are a couple of responses in this thread about 10-4 being a big spot. It started getting me concerned about the spot, but your validation helps me.

I'm not sure everyone has a true understanding and appreciation of the skills and ability of these top one pocket players. Sylver Ochoa could give a "B" player 12-4 and its not a fair game. Chip is probably a ball or maybe a little more behind Sylver in one pocket, but IMO Chip would rob Sylver playing even rotation.

I want to believe I'm a "B" player right now. So, Chip giving me 10-4 is not a big spot relative to our respective skills. In fact, I think I would rather play Sylver 12-4 than Chip 10-4.

I play some good solid one pocket players that play Chip 10-6 and its hard for them to get there. The good solid one pocket players will give me 10-6 and on a tight table its a tough game for me. On a loose (did I use the correct word here:D) table I think I have the best of it (maybe that's wishful thinking).

I don't want everyone to think I play these monsters everyday all day long. But, I do play them sometimes. These are fine young men who are generous with their time and knowledge.

Joey, one of these days I'll make down there for one of the tournaments (just to watch), and I would really like if you and I could play some one pocket. We don't have to play for anything, but if you want we could play something real cheap or even a set for dinner.

Steven
Click to expand...

Steven,
10-4 is not that large of a spot. I would say that it would take a TOP B player to beat a TOP one pocket player. When the lesser player goes to 5 the game gets even tougher for the lesser player.

Most people would be surprised at the handicaps that are given out at our local, FREE, EVERY FRIDAY, one pocket tournament. The pros would have to give me 12-5 just to play in this tournament. I'm giving up the world now, due to having a good run of luck for a few months. Now, I am just taking a beating every week.

Who knows, I may get over Texas way in the near future. You are in Texas, correct? I will play anytime, for money, dinner or giggles. You probably won't see my best game for giggles but you will at least pass a good time.
 
"Not the critic."

Gmanpoke said:
I'm willing to risk humility and failure in my pursuit. As I have always told my daughters, you have to live life. There are no do overs. Don't be afraid to risk failure.

Remember, one of my daughters is in medical school. She is willing to risk failure and the humility that comes with it to pursuit her dreams.

Respectfully,

Steven
Click to expand...

You are a very intelligent man. You gave your daughters great advice. You only get one life to live.

You make me think of a famous quote by Teddy Roosevelt:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
 
JoeyA said:
Steven,
10-4 is not that large of a spot. I would say that it would take a TOP B player to beat a TOP one pocket player. When the lesser player goes to 5 the game gets even tougher for the lesser player.

Most people would be surprised at the handicaps that are given out at our local, FREE, EVERY FRIDAY, one pocket tournament. The pros would have to give me 12-5 just to play in this tournament. I'm giving up the world now, due to having a good run of luck for a few months. Now, I am just taking a beating every week.

Who knows, I may get over Texas way in the near future. You are in Texas, correct? I will play anytime, for money, dinner or giggles. You probably won't see my best game for giggles but you will at least pass a good time.
Click to expand...

Actually Joey, I'm in Oklahoma City. What part of Texas will you be in?

Steven
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Well, I went back and re-read your first post and if Compton is playing you 10 to 4, and still cleaning your clock, I think I'd find somebody to teach me how to get whitey a little safer and pay him.
As to humility and failure, they do not exist in my world. Just ask my three ex-wives.
Good luck. :)
Click to expand...

Maybe you're right. Maybe I should find someone else to teach me or maybe I'll never be able to get whitey safe enough.

Good Luck to you.

Steven
 
Gmanpoke said:
Maybe you're right. Maybe I should find someone else to teach me or maybe I'll never be able to get whitey safe enough.

Good Luck to you.

Steven
Click to expand...

Hey, it ain't nothing to be ashamed of. I have a hard time with old whitey myself.
I play the local shortstop every now and then, even up. If I'm having an ordinary day I'll beat him two out of five times.
So my goal is to (1) figure out how to get whitey safer because this guy is a good shot maker, and (2) how to put him into a position to make a mistake.
Here's a tip: Don't take a flyer unless you're sure you can pocket the ball and get position, either for another shot, or for a saftey.
I don't know who this Compton fellow is, but if he is pro level, you will never be as good as he is. That's just the way life works, I'm afraid. You can, however, become good enough to hold your head high when you walk into the poolroom, and enjoy the game. Isn't that's what it's really all about anyway. :)
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Hey, it ain't nothing to be ashamed of. I have a hard time with old whitey myself.
I play the local shortstop every now and then, even up. If I'm having an ordinary day I'll beat him two out of five times.
So my goal is to (1) figure out how to get whitey safer because this guy is a good shot maker, and (2) how to put him into a position to make a mistake.
Here's a tip: Don't take a flyer unless you're sure you can pocket the ball and get position, either for another shot, or for a saftey.
I don't know who this Compton fellow is, but if he is pro level, you will never be as good as he is. That's just the way life works, I'm afraid. You can, however, become good enough to hold your head high when you walk into the poolroom, and enjoy the game. Isn't that's what it's really all about anyway. :)
Click to expand...

Who said I was ashamed. Who said I didn't hold my head high when I walked into a pool room. And, by the way, I hold my head high walking into pool rooms all over the country. From Boston to San Francisco. From Hard Times in LA to Classic Billiards in Conyers, GA. I've walked into each of these places over the last 2 years and played people I didn't know. Sometimes I've won and sometimes I've gotten beaten badly. But, one thing is for sure, I'm not afraid to risk humility or failure.

One thing is for certain though, you sir, will always be able to stand at the rail and heckle me, make fun of me, call me sucker or idiot as I pursuit my dream.

Good luck to you and keep playing it safe.

Steven
 
Gmanpoke said:
I appreciate everyone's response and feedback. Remember, my goal is to become an "A" player. And, I believe evaluation and analysis of my game and my approach to improving is a healthy part of the improvement process.

I really like the open and candid comments from Jess and CaliRed and the encouragement from Scott Lee and many others.

To give a little more detail about who I play and how I play. I've played James Walden about 5 or 6 times, but I haven't played him in quiet a while, he's just not around. I've played Joey a couple of times and I've played Chip maybe half a dozen times (we were not always gambling). So, over the last 2 years, I've probably averaged playing one of these monsters about once a month. Also, we play cheap. So, I'm never going to get a spot where I can win. Chip and Joey help analyze my strategy usually after I execute a shot. But, if they put me in a bad trap, I'll usually stop and tell them what I'm thinking of doing. They will tell me if my thinking is bad and even provide suggestions at times.

Now, as far as the spot not changing; believe me, I want nothing more than one of these monster to say "I can't give you that spot anymore".

Jesse, by you saying "the spot has not changed" assumes these guys haven't improved too. I've been playing Chip the most so I will use him in this discussion. I understand you may not be able to see Chip's game, but just look at look at what he is winning today versus what he was winning 2 year ago and tell me this young man is not improving. I'm not trying to start an argument, because I think you have some very good points, especially about confidence.

The last time Chip and I played, we played a total of 12 games and I finished down 4 games. I have a predetermined amount I'm willing to lose and when I hit it, I quite. If it take an hour to hit my limit then so be it, if it takes 4 hours better for me, I think.

I play many different levels of players. Some, I run over, some I get a little spot from and some I play even. As far as gambling goes, I would be perfectly happy never gambling again in my life, but the reality is the strong players will not play for free. I'm not going through this process to win a bunch of money at some point in the future. I'm going through this process because I love the game and I want to be the best I can possible be within the limitations of time.

As far as getting instructions and watching DVDs: in January 2010 I sought out and received instructions from (in my opinion) one of the best instructor in the world. I have to make a confession here. Scott, I've fallen down on my Mother Drills the last few months. I need to stay disciplined.

I do watch one pocket and rotation matches, but Jesse, would you agree that there are many methods of learning. Some people are visual while other can just read. While I can learn from these methods, the best way for me to gain an understanding and really learn is to roll up my sleeves and get after it.

Jesse, again, thank you for your candid comments. One of the main take away I have from this conversation is confidence. It's hard to play good without it. While there are many improvements needed in the fundamentals of my game, I wonder if its time to start incorporating the mental side of the game into my improvement process. Well, that's a discussion I'll need to have with my primary instructor at some point.

Good luck everyone.

Steven
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're a smart guy and you can see the value in always questioning your methods during the learning process. Your first post got the response from me it did because I assumed you were playing with that spot every day and losing nonstop, like I did when I first started learning to play one-pocket. But now that you've elaborated on your situation I can see that what your doing is great and will work fine. As long as you avoid losing your confidence playing with that spot I'm sure you'll be an A player soon.

When I first started learning to play one-pocket I would gamble with Ronnie Allen and other top one-pocket players even for a hundred a game or a thousand a set because I thought that was the best way to learn and although it eventually did turn me into an A player I get aggravated when I think someone is choosing a similarly expensive route that I did to learn the game.

I see now that I was speaking from the experience of a unique situation and when someone says they are gambling to learn it's probably no where near the insane level I took it to, so I should choose my advice more carefully. You're right, people learn optimally in different fashions and I'll try to remember that. Good luck with your game, maybe one day we'll get to play some one-pocket and thanks for the lesson.
 
RULE #1: You should NEVER lose more than 4 games of 1-hole in a row without asking to adjust. I actually think the number is 3 but I am somewhat of a NIT in the current economy atm. If you have been losing at 10-4 for 2 years I think you can answer the question better than I can after referring to rule number 1.
 
JesseAllred said:
It sounds like you're a smart guy and you can see the value in always questioning your methods during the learning process. Your first post got the response from me it did because I assumed you were playing with that spot every day and losing nonstop, like I did when I first started learning to play one-pocket. But now that you've elaborated on your situation I can see that what your doing is great and will work fine. As long as you avoid losing your confidence playing with that spot I'm sure you'll be an A player soon.

When I first started learning to play one-pocket I would gamble with Ronnie Allen and other top one-pocket players even for a hundred a game or a thousand a set because I thought that was the best way to learn and although it eventually did turn me into an A player I get aggravated when I think someone is choosing a similarly expensive route that I did to learn the game.

I see now that I was speaking from the experience of a unique situation and when someone says they are gambling to learn it's probably no where near the insane level I took it to, so I should choose my advice more carefully. You're right, people learn optimally in different fashions and I'll try to remember that. Good luck with your game, maybe one day we'll get to play some one-pocket and thanks for the lesson.
Click to expand...

Jesse, I would really like to play one pocket with you. From your responses in this Thread, its clear you have a passion for this game and true willingness to help other players who want to learn. I think you could help me a lot if we ever get an opportunity to play.

Good luck sir

Steven
 
playin champions

I use to love playing champions and semi champs when I had my pool hall. I played Chip 10-4, I played Chip and Joey rotating with the 5,7 and the break, played JJ 12-5, and lots of others that came thru. I lost them all but it was an awesome experience. If I was loaded like DD I would be playing champs 18-4 every chance I got just for the fun.

I play with a couple of pretty good players now at 11-5, and 9-6 my fouls don't count which I found out I had no chance at. I watched at Derby City trying to learn from them but all I found out is I don't play good enough for the shots they choose to be the correct shots for me to shoot if I want to win now. But I go home and practice my stance, stroke, and gain confidence to build up to shooting those when I have them.
 
Gmanpoke said:
To give a little more detail about who I play and how I play. I've played James Walden about 5 or 6 times, but I haven't played him in quiet a while, he's just not around. I've played Joey a couple of times and I've played Chip maybe half a dozen times (we were not always gambling). So, over the last 2 years, I've probably averaged playing one of these monsters about once a month. Also, we play cheap. So, I'm never going to get a spot where I can win. Chip and Joey help analyze my strategy usually after I execute a shot. But, if they put me in a bad trap, I'll usually stop and tell them what I'm thinking of doing. They will tell me if my thinking is bad and even provide suggestions at times.
Click to expand...

If you're getting this level of coaching for, say, $20/rack, and winning 1/4 or 1/3 of the games, I'd call that a bargain. If you play 10 games in four hours, win 3 of them, then you're down $80. That's $20/hour, or less than many pool lessons.

Cory
 
If you have the skills to someday be a very good to great player you're not a sucker. If you lack those skills and fantasize some day of being a great player, "I personally would have to change my mind sight. You're not facing reality."
 
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