Been playing a monster

Hey, Gman. I noticed you were a member of OnePocket.org.
Why don't you ask this same question over there. If there's anyone who can give you a good, honest, and correct answer, it's those guys. :)
 
Hey, Gman. I noticed you were a member of OnePocket.org.
Why don't you ask this same question over there. If there's anyone who can give you a good, honest, and correct answer, it's those guys. :)

Thanks for the suggestion. to the best of my knowledge, I've never posted on OnePocket.org. I don't know why, I just haven't.

While I used one pocket in my original discussion, the purpose was not to discuss one pocket specifically. The purpose of this Thread was to discuss, analyze, and evaluate my personal improvement process.

More specifically, whether playing monsters without sufficient spot to have a ligitiment opportunity to win is an effective tool in my improvement process. I could have just as easily talked about playing Chip 9 ball or even 10 ball.

Thanks for your contributions to the Thread.

Steven
 
So, lately I've been playing Chip Compton one pocket. He's giving me 10 to 4 and its embarrassing but I keep coming back for more. I hope I'm improving but dag these guys are unbelievable. A year and a half or 2 years ago I was playing James Walden a lot, and I play Joey Gray now and then but mainly play Chip right now.

I think everyone should play top level players in your area. It's going to cost a little money, but I think you will have an opportunity to experience a level of play most don't understand.

My goal is to become an "A" level player. Don't know if I'll get there but I keep trying. Gabe Owens is around every once in a while. I haven't ever asked him to play but I will in the near future.

So does this make me a sucker?

Steven

seems like you should be able to send all the balls up table and win this game
 
seems like you should be able to send all the balls up table and win this game

Thanks for the contribution.

It's interesting that you say this, because others have suggested that I open the rack up and put a lot of pressure on the monster player.

I can see the validity of both strategies if my primary objective is to win. But, what if my primary objective is to learn? If I deploy one of these strategies, am I loosing an opportunity to learn and experience an improtant part of the game.

I've said this many time and I think it a difficult concept for many because of everyone competitive nature. This is not about winning money, this is about becoming a better player. If I wanted to try and win money, I would put $5K on the light and ask for 18-3. I don't know if I would get 18-3 but I would get much better than 10-4.

Steven
 
Thanks for the contribution.

It's interesting that you say this, because others have suggested that I open the rack up and put a lot of pressure on the monster player.

I can see the validity of both strategies if my primary objective is to win. But, what if my primary objective is to learn? If I deploy one of these strategies, am I loosing an opportunity to learn and experience an improtant part of the game.

I've said this many time and I think it a difficult concept for many because of everyone competitive nature. This is not about winning money, this is about becoming a better player. If I wanted to try and win money, I would put $5K on the light and ask for 18-3. I don't know if I would get 18-3 but I would get much better than 10-4.

Steven



Hi Steven / Gmanpoke I think playing good/great players is a great way to exercise your skills. I have played a wide range of players and know that playing elite players cheap can open up knowledge you do not get back from a DVD.

However I would like to make a comment on your thoughts about sending balls up table (I am not a 1 pocket player myself) I know I have seen some old video of Varner doing this exact thing and grinding a game out when he was way behind. If you are playing Compton and are trying to win the games then you have to note the score and play accordingly.

Good luck to you keep working on your game you will improve.
 
Hi Steven / Gmanpoke I think playing good/great players is a great way to exercise your skills. I have played a wide range of players and know that playing elite players cheap can open up knowledge you do not get back from a DVD.

However I would like to make a comment on your thoughts about sending balls up table (I am not a 1 pocket player myself) I know I have seen some old video of Varner doing this exact thing and grinding a game out when he was way behind. If you are playing Compton and are trying to win the games then you have to note the score and play accordingly.

Good luck to you keep working on your game you will improve.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm certainly not a one pocket expert but I'm trying to gain knowledge about the game. But, I thought you moved the balls up table when you were ahead. To quote JoeyA: "get ahead stay ahead". See Joey, I do listen. I thought when you were behind, you put balls in play.

I didn't really start this thread to talk about specific one pocket strategies. I do try and use the same strategy playing Chip that I would use playing anyone. When I'm ahead, I move balls up table and only want enough balls in play to win the game. When I'm behind, I get more aggressive. I try to set traps and Chip certainly makes sure I get plenty of opportunities to get out of traps. I'll take intentional fouls when I think its the right play.

Steven
 
I guess my point was you only need 4 balls so you are ahead already. The more balls down table the more complicated and more possibilities thus favoring the better player. If more balls are up table then he will have more issues running a big number and out. I am not saying to not try to move balls to your side or whatever all I was saying is perhaps balls up at the head end of table are not in anyone's favor conditions on the table not withstanding of course. Gives him less to trap and work with he will bring them down table the superior player leading the big number will need those balls downtable before you do at least in my opinion.

Good luck in your journey, I am on the same road with a different game (14.1) being lucky enough to play some of the greats myself.
 
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That all sounds wonderful and I would have agreed with you for the first 15 years I played and gambled with champions, the first $90,000 lost gambling with better players, because "that's the way to get better". But all that "improvement" he's getting from watching a great player making moves on him can be done by watching as a bystander or on dvd. You take a guy playing with a 10-4 spot against a monster player for two years and put him up against a guy who's spent that time practicing the shots he's seen on video and moving up through the ranks against slightly better players and he'll destroy the guy who's been playing the champion. I doubt many people would agree with me, including myself a couple years ago, but it's scientifically proven....in my new book "God?why do I feel like a sucker even though everyone keeps telling me this is the way to improve??" $19.99 paperback

Well said! Totally agree. Do drills, practice, practice, practice. Play players just a little better than you. Maybe take on that Monster once a month to gage your gauge your improvement.
 
You can do drills all day and never get much better. You'll just do drills really well. If you have never done a particular shot, than yes, it's OK to drill it. But, if you really want to learn how to compete, you have to get into the box and execute shots you won't execute in drills. During execution, all your body parts are working really hard, and against it's natural range of motion. It falls apart with any kind of mental pressure. John smidt mentioned something in his recent post about stroke shots vs actual game strokes. It's a lengthy post that I found very useful because it made a lot of sense. A lot of learning the game is being able to finesse balls, because most other strokes are useless under pressure unless you are extremely solid in your mechanics. If I had to line up a few balls and make them, then set them up over and over for a few hours, I'll end up chewing something un-edible, like a napkin.
 
You can do drills all day and never get much better. You'll just do drills really well. If you have never done a particular shot, than yes, it's OK to drill it. But, if you really want to learn how to compete, you have to get into the box and execute shots you won't execute in drills. During execution, all your body parts are working really hard, and against it's natural range of motion. It falls apart with any kind of mental pressure. John smidt mentioned something in his recent post about stroke shots vs actual game strokes. It's a lengthy post that I found very useful because it made a lot of sense. A lot of learning the game is being able to finesse balls, because most other strokes are useless under pressure unless you are extremely solid in your mechanics. If I had to line up a few balls and make them, then set them up over and over for a few hours, I'll end up chewing something un-edible, like a napkin.

This is a very good post, C. When was the last time anyone ever saw a drill come up in a game of One Pocket, or anywhere else for that matter. If you're gonna practice, practive shots that were giving you trouble the last time you played.
In Gman's case, I think he would be better served if he were to play with those nearer his own skill level. :)
 
This is a very good post, C. When was the last time anyone ever saw a drill come up in a game of One Pocket, or anywhere else for that matter. If you're gonna practice, practive shots that were giving you trouble the last time you played.
In Gman's case, I think he would be better served if he were to play with those nearer his own skill level. :)

Ty sir. Can't really hurt,, but I imagine that you will see things you won't see, if you play better players.
 
Ty sir. Can't really hurt,, but I imagine that you will see things you won't see, if you play better players.

Not as much as you think. If you see something that is dogging your game you really can't stop and jot it down on a note pad so you can work on it the next day.
My argument is not against playing better players, I do it myself. My feelings are, however, that playing someone who's skills are so markedly superior to your own, and losing money to him in the process, is a poor way to improve. :)
 
Yeah, you're right. Some people can't get much better if they aren't mechanically sound. If that's the case then he needs to work on that part of his game, and playing a slightly better player will give him an opportunity to tighten up. Playing a really advance player one pocket will teach you moves that will keep shooters wondering why all the balls on the other side.
 
There are some really good posts in this thread!
If you are playing to get better maybe isolate one strategy-and
try and emphasize it in a session. Perhaps trying to sticky whitey
on the stack. Perhaps sending balls up table.Perhaps not opening
the stack......
I think you have the right attitude and desire.
It is good to practice your shortcomings which will show up
playing a monster!
In the end do a HONEST evaluation of your abillaties,or lack there of,
and you will at least be a more knowledgeable player .
Jack
 
You can do drills all day and never get much better. You'll just do drills really well. If you have never done a particular shot, than yes, it's OK to drill it. But, if you really want to learn how to compete, you have to get into the box and execute shots you won't execute in drills. During execution, all your body parts are working really hard, and against it's natural range of motion. It falls apart with any kind of mental pressure. John smidt mentioned something in his recent post about stroke shots vs actual game strokes. It's a lengthy post that I found very useful because it made a lot of sense. A lot of learning the game is being able to finesse balls, because most other strokes are useless under pressure unless you are extremely solid in your mechanics. If I had to line up a few balls and make them, then set them up over and over for a few hours, I'll end up chewing something un-edible, like a napkin.

One of the best one-pocket players, Toby Fleharty, who owns the cue club in Vegas would line up a row of one-pocket banks as a drill and I would sit and watch him shoot them all day. This was after he won a million dollars giving a guy 12-4 for $50,000 a game. If a guy who has already been a top one-pocket player for years is still doing drills that tells me how important they are.

The same with me, after years of playing pros one-pocket and steadily improving I stopped gambling for 6 months and did one drill to fix all my mechanical issues several hours a day. Lining up the balls between the side pockets and starting with stop shots, video taping from different angles and having a coach hold my elbow...etc. I did nothing but that one stop shot line up drill for six months, no matches, no playing actual games. Then at night I would practice the stroke for 30 minutes in front of a mirror until I couldn't move my arm,

The first month back playing I won $7,000 and have been winning ever since. You may not like doing drills and think they are only good for learning a shot here and there but in my experience they're the most important thing I've ever done and without that break from playing to perfect my stroke I would still be a mediocre player. As far as your stroke falling apart under pressure and being different from when you're doing drills. I put pressure into my drills by not being able to quit the drill until I've made a hundred in a row perfectly. That puts pressure on you like you wouldn't believe.
 
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Not as much as you think. If you see something that is dogging your game you really can't stop and jot it down on a note pad so you can work on it the next day.
My argument is not against playing better players, I do it myself. My feelings are, however, that playing someone who's skills are so markedly superior to your own, and losing money to him in the process, is a poor way to improve. :)

What rule says that you can't jot it down? When I'm gambling with Ronnie Allen a hundred a game and I see a shot I ask him to excuse me and I write down the shot I just saw so I can do a drill for it later. I also spent a year recording every shot during tournaments so I could make charts on my weaknesses and try to make some sense of the differences between an A player and a C player. Once everyone in the pool room knows you're the guy who jots something down after each inning it's no problem.
 
What rule says that you can't jot it down? When I'm gambling with Ronnie Allen a hundred a game and I see a shot I ask him to excuse me and I write down the shot I just saw so I can do a drill for it later. I also spent a year recording every shot during tournaments so I could make charts on my weaknesses and try to make some sense of the differences between an A player and a C player. Once everyone in the pool room knows you're the guy who jots something down after each inning it's no problem.

Well, Jesse, out of the whole wide world of pool playing you're the first to admit to that one, that I know of. What do they call you, Jesse the Jotter? :)
 
What rule says that you can't jot it down? When I'm gambling with Ronnie Allen a hundred a game and I see a shot I ask him to excuse me and I write down the shot I just saw so I can do a drill for it later. I also spent a year recording every shot during tournaments so I could make charts on my weaknesses and try to make some sense of the differences between an A player and a C player. Once everyone in the pool room knows you're the guy who jots something down after each inning it's no problem.

I think its a great idea Jesse. I'm putting a little note pad and pencil in my case tonight when I get home. Did you typically just use words to discribe the shot or use diagrams?

I'm getting more and more take aways from this thread. Thanks all.

Steven
 
I think its a great idea Jesse. I'm putting a little note pad and pencil in my case tonight when I get home. Did you typically just use words to discribe the shot or use diagrams?

I'm getting more and more take aways from this thread. Thanks all.

Steven

There's a neat pool product made for just that which you can see by clicking here.
 
I think its a great idea Jesse. I'm putting a little note pad and pencil in my case tonight when I get home. Did you typically just use words to discribe the shot or use diagrams?

I'm getting more and more take aways from this thread. Thanks all.

Steven

I mentioned this back in post #27 of this thread. A cheap flip-up type memo pad and one of those bowling-/golf-scoring pencils (you know, they look like they were "cut" from a real pencil and are only 3 inches long), and a method of attaching that pencil to the inside of the memo pad (e.g. a pocketclip swiped from a Bic pen) was my scribble pad of choice for many years.

And there are plenty of pros that will try to document something new they saw. Tony Robles is a good example, and if I'm not mistaken, it was even one of his topics in a Billiards Digest column sometime back.

There's a neat pool product made for just that which you can see by clicking here.

Gosh, I wish this existed back in the early 1980s! Definitely beats drawing "blank" pool table layouts by hand in that memo pad in advance.

-Sean
 
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