Bemoaning the rise of the bar box

rhatten said:
Bar box 'piss in' pool games (TE 9b, APA rules in 8b or 'piss in' 10b) are not good for pool PERIOD. Who wants to win or loose on a 'shit in' pool game? FIX the game structure- standardize the games... ie Stop rewarding 'bad pool' playing... this is what keeps pool going backwards and provides NO incentive for players to try to get better...
Its hard enough to handicap (match up) skill level without adding in a coin toss to every game...This is why people stop coming to pool tournaments *(game structure!!). Its also a real reason why action is DEAD now. That and those horrific 'Valley type' 6 and 7 footers... All of those tables would make good reef structure at the bottom of the ocean imo... they are really bad for pool.
Randy
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Can't those 'horrible Valley type 7 footers' have the pockets shimmed up by a good table mechanic so they're not easy to beat?
I've thought about buying one on the cheap with this idea in mind.
Or is the table just a bad product and beyond hope?
Thank you for a reply.
 
I think that pool would grow if both kind of tables are promoted in a way that it would allow league players to choose what level of pool they want to compete in. By that I mean that if a pool hall has both tables, promote the bar boxes as somewhat of a minor league level and use it to improve your game. And use the 9 footers as the next level in which you know the competition would be harder and you are asked more of your abilities. In the 9 footers case, hopefully they would have the same setup as pros do, which means tighter pockets and same rules.

And if there are no league nights, it only makes it better for the non pool playing crowd who just want to come in and have a beer and shoot around.

But that's just how I would do it. But what I gathered from this topic so far is that there really isn't a governing body who regulates pool in general here in the states.
 
It's probably because I started playing pool 55 years ago.
Pool should be played on 9' and 10' tables like the olden days.

I've always frowned upon playing on small tables and the battle
was meant to be waged on a full size table otherwise it's akin
to shooting hoops in the school yard on the smaller 8 ft. baskets.

A hoop is meant to be 10' & same applies to pool tables and 9' suffices.

Matt B.
 
Maybe they should just go to a 2 1/2 x 5 ft table with 6 inch corner pockets. The pool halls could pack in twice as many tables that way and the bangers would be in heaven. They could make little matching cues as well. That should save pool!
 
I have read through the entire thread and some people have made some good comments and some others, well not so good comments.

Maybe my outlook is different than a lot of people's on here. I've mentioned before I've been playing for a little over 4 months. I must be spoiled. I have only been to one pool hall. They have 14 9' diamonds, 1 3 cushion and 12 7' diamonds.

I enjoy playing on the 9 foot tables. I like the challenge. I play in a Napa league on the 7 ft tables as well. I can see the pros and cons with both tables.

In my opinion, in my pool hall, the 7ft tables seem to bring in the money. The leagues play on these tables, as well as most of the casual people. I've never seen people waiting around for a 9ft table but I have for a 7ft table. A big thing is the casual player, a serious player is will to drive to play on a big table, the casual person is looks for convince cause they are playing for something to do, be it a date or with friends, they are having a good time not trying to prove. By keeping 7ft tables around you can accomplish that.

Two other things I noticed in this thread and want to bring up.

What's with all the negativity on league players? Like I said I'm new and in league so I don't understand. For the pool community the money seems to be in the leagues. League nights bring in a lot of people, these people spend money on food, drinks, and pool related items for sale. It sounds like some leagues have some extremely good players in them as well. I understand about the players who don't want to improve but honestly why do you care? Some people join a league just for the social aspect. They don't care about making it to Vegas or their win loss record. They just want to have fun. What's wrong with that and who is anyone to judge.

The second thing is people talking about the state of pool being quite poor. After reading a lot of responses in this thread, as well the whole forum, a huge problem seems to be negativity. Their are a lot of people on here who just hate on everything. You get new players seeing that and it's a huge turn off. Take sam lambert on here. As far as I am concerned he has never done anything wrong and actually posted some useful stuff but man has that kid been ridiculed.

Pool rooms are already like exclusive clubs to some degree. If you don't know someone, don't play lights out, or willing to give up your money to the better players, you are an outcast. why would the new players coming into the game have any desire to continue after the first encounter in the real pool world, not just a bar with a table. Don't get me wrong their are some great people out there but the bad ones seem to stick out more.

Everyone starts somewhere. Like the posted commented in this thread, if they see a pocket chalker and a cue claw they will take advantage. Why? What are so wrong with those item? ( I own neither) but now we are going to hate on the players who have them?

I have really enjoyed the game of pool in my short time and I do not post a ton on this forum. But some people can really be a turn off to this sport.

Sorry for the rant, I didn't shoot very well on my 8ft table tonight.
( best of both worlds haha).
 
Break and One said:
I have read through the entire thread and some people have made some good comments and some others, well not so good comments.

Maybe my outlook is different than a lot of people's on here. I've mentioned before I've been playing for a little over 4 months. I must be spoiled. I have only been to one pool hall. They have 14 9' diamonds, 1 3 cushion and 12 7' diamonds.

I enjoy playing on the 9 foot tables. I like the challenge. I play in a Napa league on the 7 ft tables as well. I can see the pros and cons with both tables.

In my opinion, in my pool hall, the 7ft tables seem to bring in the money. The leagues play on these tables, as well as most of the casual people. I've never seen people waiting around for a 9ft table but I have for a 7ft table. A big thing is the casual player, a serious player is will to drive to play on a big table, the casual person is looks for convince cause they are playing for something to do, be it a date or with friends, they are having a good time not trying to prove. By keeping 7ft tables around you can accomplish that.

Two other things I noticed in this thread and want to bring up.

What's with all the negativity on league players? Like I said I'm new and in league so I don't understand. For the pool community the money seems to be in the leagues. League nights bring in a lot of people, these people spend money on food, drinks, and pool related items for sale. It sounds like some leagues have some extremely good players in them as well. I understand about the players who don't want to improve but honestly why do you care? Some people join a league just for the social aspect. They don't care about making it to Vegas or their win loss record. They just want to have fun. What's wrong with that and who is anyone to judge.

The second thing is people talking about the state of pool being quite poor. After reading a lot of responses in this thread, as well the whole forum, a huge problem seems to be negativity. Their are a lot of people on here who just hate on everything. You get new players seeing that and it's a huge turn off. Take sam lambert on here. As far as I am concerned he has never done anything wrong and actually posted some useful stuff but man has that kid been ridiculed.

Pool rooms are already like exclusive clubs to some degree. If you don't know someone, don't play lights out, or willing to give up your money to the better players, you are an outcast. why would the new players coming into the game have any desire to continue after the first encounter in the real pool world, not just a bar with a table. Don't get me wrong their are some great people out there but the bad ones seem to stick out more.

Everyone starts somewhere. Like the posted commented in this thread, if they see a pocket chalker and a cue claw they will take advantage. Why? What are so wrong with those item? ( I own neither) but now we are going to hate on the players who have them?

I have really enjoyed the game of pool in my short time and I do not post a ton on this forum. But some people can really be a turn off to this sport.

Sorry for the rant, I didn't shoot very well on my 8ft table tonight.
( best of both worlds haha).
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're figuring out the pool scene just fine. :thumbup:
 
There have been many changes in demographics across society in the last several decades. When I was growing up, I looked forward to heading to one of my high school friend's hosting us because he had a nice 8 foot table in his basement. Some of us looked forward to playing on his table more than others. Back then, we had only local channels on the TV, there was no internet, and the homes had a single line of telephone service and possibly an Atari game or a home computer. Today, every person over 12 in a house has a cell phone, hundreds of channels of crap coming in on the TVs in a house (we had one TV when I was growing up), computer/internet/gaming systems...all of this stuff has become competition for various pastimes, be they pool, bowling, cards, golf, basketball, curling, etc. They compete not only for time, but also for money. I think this particular type of competition has resulted in some of the declines seen in society for today as more and more people just sit at home in front of their big screen TVs and computers...this lessens the chance and numbers of people that get bitten by the bug to have the drive to improve themselves by seeking out that 9 foot table standard, etc. There will still be people out there that want to play on that 9 foot table but I do think it is going to be a smaller overall number and a smaller proportion than what was seen in the past. I also think the competing costs of society (be they health care, taxes, cell & internet plans) have had an effect on the growth of bar boxes and the need to fit more tables in smaller spaces. Not to say there cannot be niche places that might be successful with an upscale offering. I think the ultimate success of a place will be its ability to instill the desire in players to come through the doors...whether higher skilled players or those such as myself who might not be very good but do have a desire to improve.
 
The evidence mounts up

King T said:
Your got it right Sir! There are more Pool halls in Houston then any city in this country and most have 8ft table and bar tables because they pay the bills.

There are only 4 real Pool halls left in Houston and they also cater in large part to the league players and bangers because they have to, yes they keep the equipment up, yes they have some 9ft tables to play One Pocket on and yes they know who the players are, but leagues and drunks keep them alive.
Click to expand...

rhatten said:
Bar box 'piss in' pool games (TE 9b, APA rules in 8b or 'piss in' 10b) are not good for pool PERIOD. Who wants to win or loose on a 'shit in' pool game? FIX the game structure- standardize the games... ie Stop rewarding 'bad pool' playing... this is what keeps pool going backwards and provides NO incentive for players to try to get better...

Its hard enough to handicap (match up) skill level without adding in a coin toss to every game...This is why people stop coming to pool tournaments *(game structure!!). Its also a real reason why action is DEAD now. That and those horrific 'Valley type' 6 and 7 footers... All of those tables would make good reef structure at the bottom of the ocean imo... they are really bad for pool.

Randy
Click to expand...

macguy said:
The problem with your thinking is it's narrow scope. 90% maybe more of the people who play and support the game don't care one bit if they win or lose, it is just a pass time. They however make it possable for you to have the game you love and want to dedicate yourself to. They are the engine behind it that makes it run.
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Due to the recruitment part of the Pool League System. Macguys comment shows who is supporting pool. Its the lower level player. We all see less and less good players in the rooms. These are recreational players and thank God for them. I remember when I played at that level. I was practicing, going new places to play and working on my game. The game was never about money, it was about fun and enjoyment. As it turns out the 7ft table is the home of the recreational player and the 9ft table is the area he would love to be able to play in but just cant quite yet.

The numbers of the recreational players have overtaken the numbers of good players to the point that its very lopsided to compare the two numbers.

One good tournament within 50 miles of a room will draw the majority of the good players out if they are active and care to play. In that same area there might be 100 or more pool teams at 8 people to a team.

Its not quality vs. quantity....when its quantity is basically the only game in town. There isn't enough quality players to go around so its time to instruct these new players into the upper echelon.
 
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Mark Griffin was Right

Like it or not:

Mark Griffin was right. The 9 footer loses the numbers war.
 
voiceofreason said:
With the rise of the 7 footer, all you have to do now is go to a napped cloth and swap to the more interesting smaller balls (yellows and reds) and you will finally have caught up with us in the rest of the world.



http://ipapool.com/store/index.php?id_product=73&controller=product
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Well, the truth is I have little interest in what the rest of the world is doing & even less interest in bar boxes.

As it is I drive 85 miles 1 way to play on properly maintained 9' tables. Sound crazy? Yeah maybe, but what sounds crazier to me is pool on the miniature tables, it just holds no interest for me.
 
Bar box tables

Bank it said:
Well, the truth is I have little interest in what the rest of the world is doing & even less interest in bar boxes.

As it is I drive 85 miles 1 way to play on properly maintained 9' tables. Sound crazy? Yeah maybe, but what sounds crazier to me is pool on the miniature tables, it just holds no interest for me.
Click to expand...

165 miles one way to the closest pool room..........................................
 
9ft pool and Golf

Bank it said:
Well, the truth is I have little interest in what the rest of the world is doing & even less interest in bar boxes.

As it is I drive 85 miles 1 way to play on properly maintained 9' tables. Sound crazy? Yeah maybe, but what sounds crazier to me is pool on the miniature tables, it just holds no interest for me.
Click to expand...

mortuarymike-nv said:
165 miles one way to the closest pool room..........................................
Click to expand...

9ft Pool and golf seem to be headed the same direction. If you want to take a day and make a Golf or a Pool Day. Traveling is what you are going to have to do.
 
Blimey is it that bad?

I can get to American tables in loads of different clubs within a ten mile radius of where I live here in England.

Twenty mile radius and its tons - mind you, I live on the outskirts of London.
 
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