Bergman vs. Deuel at BCAPL National Championships

I'm not a fan of the 7 foot tables. But i appreciate the return of the US Open One Pocket and revival of the US Open 14.1.

i just hope the market swings in a way to make it feasible to bring 10 ball US Open back to 9 foot tables. The 10/8 ball invitational events are among my favorite tournaments of all time.
 
Mark - I believe the top watched TAR matches all involved SVB. People made a point that SVB was shown too much but Justin quickly pointed out that he was the most watched. I know SVB played Frost on a bar table, but most of his matches were big table matches.

You obviously have the CSI numbers on what people have watched on your recent streams. I do think that you can't compare what people participate it (or not participate in) to what they are gonna watch. I'm not gonna get into an Octagon to fight some steroid juiced guy that eats nails for breakfast and most people wouldn't either. But the UFC just sold for 4 billion so it shows there is a lot of interest in seeing it. Want a more relative comparison -- In golf, Joe Public doesn't want to play on a super tough course and shoot 100. They might once for the thrill of it but aren't going to every weekend. However the most watched golf is the majors, under the toughest conditions.

I love bar table 8 ball so I looking forward to seeing this match live. Again, I hope you have the bleacher seating corrected this year so there can be a big crowd there to enjoy it as well. I also think it would have been nice in CSI would have done a match involving Sky and Oscar, either between themselves or against other opponents.
 
Mark Griffin said:
I'll tell what. If you think 9' pool is such a great attraction, why not do some events?

I've been in the pool industry for a lot of years. I grew up on 9' tables. But facts are facts. The amount of pool played on 7' table is MANY times that played on 9' tables.

You make it sound like I am forcing people to play on 7' tables.
I am reacting to the marketplace. Players (by the numbers of entries) clearly show they prefer 7' tables. So I need to have events on 7' tables.

It gets old listening to keyboard quarterbacks. Do you remember when CSI produced the Qlympics? That was in 2007 in Louisville. It was my attempt to get amateurs to play on 9' tables. Financially it was a big flop. I lost $80,000! (And I paid every player every penny on the spot).

So - I tried. Pool showed they didn't want to play on 9' tables. And there it is. You can argue all you want-but as far as I'm concerned, you don't understand the dynamics of pool players in America.

If you ever want to discuss this, I encourage you to call me. But to insinuate it's all about profit really shows you don't know me.

Mark Griffin
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Best of luck, Mark.

And congratulations in advance to Team Europe.
 
I will always try to support CSI by watching anything they do because

they are at least trying to keep the game alive! If the market calls for 7 ft'ers then

that's what it has to be.I don't know anyone that is just looking for a way to lose

money.

IMO, If you want the average person to pick the game up, a 9 ft table will make

them change their mind real quick.

Most all of us grew up on 9' but we're the old guys now. It's a new day and

time. I have a 9' here at my house that I play on daily. BUT, when I go to play

in a tournament it's all 7's and that's all fine with me if it keeps OUR game

alive.

ROCK ON,Mr. Griffin and most of us wish you the best!! Thanks
 
Yea I wouldn't take any of this negativity to heart especially knowing your organizations are putting on events. Regardless of size of tables I love the fact you guys put on great events with huge entry numbers and also some world class competitors. Forget these jokers that say your after solely profit when obviously profit keeps doors open but any one can see that CSI cares about pool and cares to keep American tournaments going. To me you guys do so much for pool especial on American soil and it's a shame that people like trying to attack you and your efforts but negativity will always be there as long as you ignore it and don't let it consume your thoughts then let the negativity go on, it most likely gives these people a purpose so as pathetic as that may be it is what it is. I just feel the need to counter balance these comments with positivity and support and let you guys know there are absolutely supporters and I am one of them
 
posting

There was a thread about why people post less now than previous years.

I said because of all the negativity. I firmly believe that. There are a few posters that just cant wait to jump on everything I say or do. I don't really care but it does become aggravating.

I post a lot less now:


WORK HARD IN SILENCE,
LET SUCCESS MAKE THE NOISE.

Mark Griffin
 
I understand Mark's reasoning. The facts are the facts.

However, I really prefer watching the pros play on 9 or 10 footers, especially when it comes to 9 and 10 ball. I think some of the pros don't even show up to Vegas for these events because of the disdain for 7 footers- for example, Mika, Johnny Archer, Earl, Biado, and others seem to be missing this year.

Also, isn't a bit redundant to have the US Open 10 and 8 ball on the bar table and then have bar table championships just one month later?
 
BeiberLvr said:
Best of luck, Mark.

And congratulations in advance to Team Europe.
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:scratchhead: why??????? R U being this way? Do you talk to all those you come across in this manner. Where's it get ya in life....I don't get in. Ever listen to John Lennon????????????
 
Island Drive said:
:scratchhead: why??????? R U being this way? Do you talk to all those you come across in this manner. Where's it get ya in life....I don't get in. Ever listen to John Lennon????????????
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Am I not allowed to voice my opinion, especially when we are talking about the future of American pool?

There are threads each and every year about how Americans can't compete on the global stage, and suggestions on how we can improve.

I assure you, playing on 7' tables is NOT the answer. But if CSI is successful I guess that's all that matters.
 
I live in NYC and you rarely see 7' tables unless you are at an actual bar. I play on 9' always unless I have to go to Vegas for BCA nationals or to prepare myself for the Expo. Straight pool is king where I live and no one would ever play it on a 7' diamond (even though I do like playing on them as a change of pace once in a while). I'm not gonna sit here and b*tch about what should and shouldn't be done but I'm glad that there is people like you Mark that are able to have these great events. Wish you a lot of luck!
 
Mark Griffin said:
But to insinuate it's all about profit really shows you don't know me.
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There is no problem with it even if it was all about profit and only about profit. You are a business, not a charity. It is always so easy for people to try to give other people's money away. If they want some charitable work done then they should go do it themselves instead of trying to tell everybody else that they should be doing it.

For the record I believe Mark tries to have some balance between what is best for pool with what is best for his pocketbook. But if you think he has to do that or even should do that or that he owes any charity to anyone you couldn't be more wrong. And if you think that not only should he be charitable with his business, but that it should be his first consideration ahead of his pocketbook then not only are you wrong, you are out of your mind.

Let's spell it out one more time for the people that don't get it. Businesses are for making money. They are for helping yourself. That is their whole purpose. Charities are for helping others. That is their whole purpose. Mark has a business, not a charity. Now if he chooses to take other things besides his pocketbook into consideration at times then more power to him if it makes him happy. But he has no obligation to do so, and we have no right to expect him to do so.

If you want charity done then go start a charity or go do that charitable work that you would like to see done. But stop expecting a business to be a charity.
 
watchez said:
CSI News -- is the arena going to be better this year? Meaning are the bleachers going to be higher than the pool table?
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I too would like an answer to this question. Last year I watched very little of the Pro matches because standing on the bleachers was the only way to adequately see the play on the table. Really hope this issue has been addressed and corrected for this year. Mark?
 
Poolplaya9 said:
There is no problem with it even if it was all about profit and only about profit. You are a business, not a charity. It is always so easy for people to try to give other people's money away. If they want some charitable work done then they should go do it themselves instead of trying to tell everybody else that they should be doing it.

For the record I believe Mark tries to have some balance between what is best for pool with what is best for his pocketbook. But if you think he has to do that or even should do that or that he owes any charity to anyone you couldn't be more wrong. And if you think that not only should he be charitable with his business, but that it should be his first consideration ahead of his pocketbook then not only are you wrong, you are out of your mind.

Let's spell it out one more time for the people that don't get it. Businesses are for making money. They are for helping yourself. That is their whole purpose. Charities are for helping others. That is their whole purpose. Mark has a business, not a charity. Now if he chooses to take other things besides his pocketbook into consideration at times then more power to him if it makes him happy. But he has no obligation to do so, and we have no right to expect him to do so.

If you want charity done then go start a charity or go do that charitable work that you would like to see done. But stop expecting a business to be a charity.
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I'll respond only because I believe some of this is aimed towards me.

I understand that Mark is running a business. The point I've been trying to drive home is that it doesn't make the American player stronger. If 10 years from now all events are on 7' tables, we won't beat anyone on the international stage.

The other point that Mark (and possibly you) are missing is that you don't need to be charitable to help strengthen the talents of the American pool player. It's totally possibly to run a successful business at the same time. I don't have the answer. Perhaps Mark does, but this isn't it.
 
BeiberLvr said:
I'll respond only because I believe some of this is aimed towards me.



I understand that Mark is running a business. The point I've been trying to drive home is that it doesn't make the American player stronger. If 10 years from now all events are on 7' tables, we won't beat anyone on the international stage.



The other point that Mark (and possibly you) are missing is that you don't need to be charitable to help strengthen the talents of the American pool player. It's totally possibly to run a successful business at the same time. I don't have the answer. Perhaps Mark does, but this isn't it.
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Did it ever cross your mind that Mark's goals isn't to make American pool stronger on the International stage?

If you want that then invest your money into coaches, player development, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
robsnotes4u said:
Did it ever cross your mind that Mark's goals isn't to make American pool stronger on the International stage?

If you want that then invest your money into coaches, player development, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Why do you think I've made the comment(s) that Mark only cares about what's best for CSI?

Like I said in my previous post, he can care about CSI and help make the American players stronger.

If Mark thinks the masses aren't capable of watching anything other than run out pool, then he has every right to give them what they want. For me, I prefer something with a little more substance. Something that will actually help keep pool around in this country long term. I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. I'm just the most vocal about it right now.
 
Let's be honest -- in today's environment, watching pros play anything other than 8 ball on a bar table is a complete joke. There was a time when bar table 9 ball was exciting to watch if even just for the change of pace it provided. But now, with the template racks it's a snooze fest.

It's such a strange thing though because most of the really large tournaments are being played on bar tables and the pros keep showing up for them.

Another weird thing is as a viewer I would much rather watch old school bar table 9 ball on a Valley table with a house rack than today's game on Diamond bar tables with templates.

I've wondered if bar table 9 ball with templates could be given one last shot in the arm by racking with the 9 on the spot AND breaking from behind the FIRST diamond.

Amateurs playing on bar tables makes sense but pros playing on them doesn't. It's one thing to say the marketplace is dictating that we have amateur events on bar tables since that's obviously true. But it's a leap to say that the marketplace is also dictating that we have professional exhibition matches on them. I don't buy that.
 
Lol basement, while you are stuck in the basement Marks putting together events and streams. This is what he does everyday, but you dont buy it?

Why would he lie?

He has nothing to gain by doing so.
 
BeiberLvr said:
[...] If 10 years from now all events are on 7' tables, we won't beat anyone on the international stage.

[...]
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The equipment we play on is one thing that impacts how USA does on international stage 10 years from now (hereafter IS10), yes. But we have to put it in perspective with other factors that impact IS10.

Consider two hypothetical worlds designed to separate some of these factors

(world 1) We immediately switch all 7-foot tables with 9-foot tables in the USA. So bar leagues, weekly tournaments, regional tournaments, and national tournaments are all played on 9-foot tables. But we don't change who plays league, how many people practice and how much, who shows up for the weekly tournaments and so forth. So we change nothing about the people, only the equipment they play on.

How would world 1 affect IS10?

Oh I suspect it would improve it a little

(world 2) We stay on the equipment we play on now, but somehow we increase everything about participation and energy by 20%. Number of new league players increases 20%. Entries to weekly, regional, and national tournaments increases by 20%, number of hungry players putting in the hours increases by 20%. Number of league players taking the next step to enter a first tournament increases by 20%

How would world 2 affect IS10?

The impact would be huge. the pressure on the shortstops from below would step up their games. The pressure on the pros from the energized shortstops would be big. the pressure from below on the Mosconi Cup hopefuls from other energized pros would be big too. And more of this latter crowd would find a way to compete internationally as a result.

This is what Mark understands.

When participation increases, that rising tide raises all boats providing there are seamless connections between the levels of interest. If you have a large league system that is disconnected from higher-level pool this will not be the case. But if you have a large league system that is seamlessly connected, it will. CSI has been steadfastly doggedly building that ladder--so that players at every level of interest/skill/commitment feel that connection to the next level up should they have an inkling to do a little more. The fact the pros are all heading out to Vegas to play alongside many thousands of amateurs on the same equipment next week is a big deal. The fact the league players will walk past the pros in the hall, ride up the elevator with them, be next to them at the bar and at starbucks --and then you seem them play --on the same equipment you play on... That is huge.

I believe the impact of the size of the table on high-level pool in the USA is small compared to this bigger picture.
 
I wouldn't say that he's lying. My guess would be that he's looking at some sort of correlation and assuming there's some sort of causal relationship involved. If you really think those that buy PPV's would rather watch bar table action over big table maybe we should encourage Pat Fleming to make the change too. Just think how many more buys he could get for Accustats if they made the change.
 
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