Best 14:1 Player Ever-John Schmidt or Willie Mosconi?
- Thread starter the420trooper
- Start date
The NWO. Now John will start wearing a sleevless shirts and have 5 o'clock shadow all the time.thebigdog said:Kind of like when Hulk Hogan turned heel, huh?
I think it sucks that John isn't going to post here anymore. I have met him a few different times and really like him as a person and a pool player.
BVal
BVal said:The NWO. Now John will start wearing a sleevless shirts and have 5 o'clock shadow all the time.
I think it sucks that John isn't going to post here anymore. I have met him a few different times and really like him as a person and a pool player.
BVal
I'm with you Brady, he seemed very personable at the DCC, and of course, his game is amazing. Losing imput from him on the forum would be a real loss.
Now, let's find a good villian schtick for him so he can still post. What's the verbal equivalent of sleevless shirts and 5 o'clock shadow??
high run
Michael,
When most people say the same equipment, they are talking about a 4x8 table with the same pockets. If that were done with everything else modern I agree with the chance of John or one of several modern players beating Willie's run in a fairly short time if that was all they focused on with the caveat that someone pointed out; it seems like a miracle that Willie didn't scratch on that table. A modern player has a very real risk of failing to break 37 times in a row without a scratch no matter how good he is. John is a little warm under the collar at the moment so I don't know what he would say but in his video he acknowledges that he can always get unlucky and risks the cue ball kicked in on many of his breaks in mid run.
Give a modern player exactly the same equipment, cloth, cushions, balls, everything right down to cue tip, and they would have a much harder time beating Willie's run. Everything about the equipment today makes it far easier to play finesse pool and that is what is needed for high 14.1 runs. It might actually be easier to match Willie's run on one of today's 4.5x9's than it would be to match it on a four by eight set up to modern standards or the equipment of Willie's day either one.
I will close by saying I vastly respect Willie Mosconi the pool player. He taught a young hotshot that was tearing up the local pool tables a lot about pool and a lot about class in the little time I watched him that first time. However Willie was human just like the rest of us. He got every bit as upset when he felt he was being disrespected as John does. I have even read anecdotes about Mosconi feeling like something was disrespectful of him when that was not the intention. John and Willie are far more alike than John might care to admit to. All champions have egos. It is one of the things required to be a champion in my opinion. Some hide their pride in self better than others but without it a person would not have the mental game to face and vanquish the best.
Sorry your thread went to poop. I figured it would when I saw the title, just the way these threads tend to go. I wasn't paying any attention to who started it or I would have cautioned you by PM to at least be aware this was likely.
Hu
Michael,
When most people say the same equipment, they are talking about a 4x8 table with the same pockets. If that were done with everything else modern I agree with the chance of John or one of several modern players beating Willie's run in a fairly short time if that was all they focused on with the caveat that someone pointed out; it seems like a miracle that Willie didn't scratch on that table. A modern player has a very real risk of failing to break 37 times in a row without a scratch no matter how good he is. John is a little warm under the collar at the moment so I don't know what he would say but in his video he acknowledges that he can always get unlucky and risks the cue ball kicked in on many of his breaks in mid run.
Give a modern player exactly the same equipment, cloth, cushions, balls, everything right down to cue tip, and they would have a much harder time beating Willie's run. Everything about the equipment today makes it far easier to play finesse pool and that is what is needed for high 14.1 runs. It might actually be easier to match Willie's run on one of today's 4.5x9's than it would be to match it on a four by eight set up to modern standards or the equipment of Willie's day either one.
I will close by saying I vastly respect Willie Mosconi the pool player. He taught a young hotshot that was tearing up the local pool tables a lot about pool and a lot about class in the little time I watched him that first time. However Willie was human just like the rest of us. He got every bit as upset when he felt he was being disrespected as John does. I have even read anecdotes about Mosconi feeling like something was disrespectful of him when that was not the intention. John and Willie are far more alike than John might care to admit to. All champions have egos. It is one of the things required to be a champion in my opinion. Some hide their pride in self better than others but without it a person would not have the mental game to face and vanquish the best.
Sorry your thread went to poop. I figured it would when I saw the title, just the way these threads tend to go. I wasn't paying any attention to who started it or I would have cautioned you by PM to at least be aware this was likely.
Hu
the420trooper said:
BVal said:The NWO. Now John will start wearing a sleevless shirts and have 5 o'clock shadow all the time.
I think it sucks that John isn't going to post here anymore. I have met him a few different times and really like him as a person and a pool player.
BVal
Just to lighten up the party a little bit. "WHATCHA GONNA DOOOO WHEN HOLLYWOOD 400 RUNS WILD ON YOUUUUUU!?!?"
John:
There are over 10k registered accounts on here and probably another 10k who just lurk and never have the heart to post anything because some people are ruthless assholes.
So, if you look at it that way, you're SUPPOSED to get 5-10 asses out of 20k people - it's the law of numbers. You know the 10k who took the time to register are the most opinionated of the lot. Therefore, if 10 people out of 10000 think you can't beat Mosconi dead let alone at his best, that's about par for the course really if you think about it.
Don't let anyone on here irritate you. By not posting, you're punishing the other 19,990 people who really give a shit about what you have to say.
Just drop the big leg on them and move on :grin:
All I know is when you're playing - there's almost no one else I'd rather sweat.
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Hoo-Ray for you spidercam, I like a person that gives credit where its due!!!
I believe John is one of the most talanted people I have ever met in my life and that is why I chose him to represent our new company as our Staff Pro. Once I met him and saw him play I knew my new company was going to become one of his sponsors. Although we had to postpone the 1st John Schmidt Invitational tournament at the DCC, he will have his day.
I am proud to call him my friend and to have him represent us.
Dick Clark
6 Pocket Inc.
I believe John is one of the most talanted people I have ever met in my life and that is why I chose him to represent our new company as our Staff Pro. Once I met him and saw him play I knew my new company was going to become one of his sponsors. Although we had to postpone the 1st John Schmidt Invitational tournament at the DCC, he will have his day.
I am proud to call him my friend and to have him represent us.
Dick Clark
6 Pocket Inc.
[QUOTE="CaliRed".]I'm like you, I have read the entire 12 pages of this thread and come away with exactly your take on it. I think many of us are left scratching our heads.
I saw someone else noticed the reference to that dirt bike forum "where pros are worshiped"
Me thinks that was a Freudian slip.[/QUOTE]
CaliRed,
Doesn't "freudian slip" mean saying something out loud you might never say after giving the subject some thought? It kind of "slipped" out. I was taken back by John's comment. Perhaps John, like Mike the Mouth, expects nothing but adoration from ALL the fans. Johns incredible talent and accomplishments must not be enough.
What if John runs 600 tomorrow? Will that be enough? What will he do next? My guess is John will still be John. One of our generations best all around players. Perhaps of all time. Willie will still be Willie as well. Nothing will change.
Lyn
I saw someone else noticed the reference to that dirt bike forum "where pros are worshiped"
Me thinks that was a Freudian slip.[/QUOTE]
CaliRed,
Doesn't "freudian slip" mean saying something out loud you might never say after giving the subject some thought? It kind of "slipped" out. I was taken back by John's comment. Perhaps John, like Mike the Mouth, expects nothing but adoration from ALL the fans. Johns incredible talent and accomplishments must not be enough.
What if John runs 600 tomorrow? Will that be enough? What will he do next? My guess is John will still be John. One of our generations best all around players. Perhaps of all time. Willie will still be Willie as well. Nothing will change.
Lyn
john schmidt said:
John, I have not spent a lot of time around you, but you seem like a nice guy. Certainly, your talent for the game is amazing.
But your lack of humility is shocking, as is your disdain for those of us here that struggle to run 50 (yes, I'm one of them) and are ardent fans of the game. It's the ardent, knowledgeable fan that supports you through PPV, buying tickets for The US Open, playing in the DCC when they have no chance, buys your DVDs, takes lessons from you, and purchase the products you tout. It's the fans here, that will ultimately decide where your final place in the pantheon of pool champions should be. And, the ardent fans will also be the ones to decide if you were a humble, classy guy... or not. You don't have to be a Willie fan, but you should show a modicum of respect for the one guy that is a certified, 24 carat, solid gold, legend in the game. Think Tiger talking about Jack
As to the original question, I did have a chance to see Mosconi play several times. I've also had a chance to see you play several times. And in my opinion, you have a ways to go. You may get there some day -- or maybe not -- but Mosconi still remains in a class by himself. No one is in his lane. He traveled the country, playing almost every day, on all kinds of different equipment, and almost never failed to run 100. The runs (including the 526) didn't come on his home track, that he always played on where the conditions were perfect. He had to instantaneously adapt to the cloth, the rails, the pockets, lights, crowd, noise, and distractions.
We all love you here, John. But you should be honored to be mentioned in the same sentence as Mosconi, not insulted.
Lou Figueroa
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Didn't feel like reading the whole thread, but I imagine the tables are much tighter now than they were during Mosconi's time. I'd like to see the results of both players put on the equipment with the tight pockets! :thumbup: Actually, I know I would bet on John.
well
here goes. i look at this forum like a family .
everyone on here likes pool like me so i consider us all to be friends that way and have something in common.
it sickens me that i can control my emotions enough to win major tourneys or run 400 but cannot take the heat when someone disrespects me and my peers.
thing is when other top players and i disagree we settle it by playing for 5000. .
problem is when i get in a disagreement by people i cant see on the net or play it ends up being an insult fest . i got carried away trying to verbally one up people.
some of what i said was in jest and some was to just to iratate.
as anybody that knows me will attest im a competitor and im high strung and
kind of emotional when i start playing etc.its the same when i argue.
im not justifing my actions i think i went overboard defending myself and im truly sorry to all the guys i disrespected back.i was acting like a jerk especially about mosconi ,truth be told i do look up to him bigtime.
im mean i havent event met many of you so im just talking into a computer screen.
you guys all know who i am and when you tell me how inferior me and my peers are its very insulting even if its true.
i understand im a good target for insults as it goes with being a known player etc etc.
i guess what im trying to say is you guys are completely right its an honer to be put in the same sentence as mosconi , and maybe someday this thread will comeout different.
,im a people person and when you guys think im classless that stings more than saying im not that good at pool. i havent slept good for 2 nights thinking about this thread and im ashamed how i reacted and i hope you guys as a group forgive me.
i dont want to go on my dirtbike trip without apologizing first as i think it could affect my concentration and crashing on that cactus might be more likely.
truth is im human i get nervous in matches ,theres players im scared of ,i worry about if im can make a living at pool etc.
its almost a defense mechanism some of us players have when we get told we cant win because pool is the most dog eat dog game ever.
i dont expect alot of you to ever speak good of me again and probably dont deserve it and im not saying all this because i want a new bunch of comments saying im a good guy for apologizing.
i know alot on here are always gonna say i suck and hate me etc but thousands on here are smart nice people and i really enjoy talking to you guys.
im hoping this thread just goes away and from now on im going to make a serious effort to not get insulted when people say things to bring me down.
im human just like everybody else on here and if you guys can bear with me and my crazy self ill appreciate it.
seriosly ive got a good life and career and if the worst thing people say about me is i cant play like mosconi i guess things arent so bad.
again im sorry everbody. im going to be off here for awhile as i think its not productive for me .
i should be practicing more instead of getting in arguments on the web.
after i get back from dirt biking in cali with my dad ill try to chime in and not make a ass out of my self lol.
bye for now john schmidt
mr jack ass 400
p.s. it was hard exposing my feelings and apologizing to everbody but i had too. playing the villian just isnt for me even if it is more exciting.
i feel better now getting all that off my chest.
you guys are like group therapy for me i think you should bill me .lol
here goes. i look at this forum like a family .
everyone on here likes pool like me so i consider us all to be friends that way and have something in common.
it sickens me that i can control my emotions enough to win major tourneys or run 400 but cannot take the heat when someone disrespects me and my peers.
thing is when other top players and i disagree we settle it by playing for 5000. .
problem is when i get in a disagreement by people i cant see on the net or play it ends up being an insult fest . i got carried away trying to verbally one up people.
some of what i said was in jest and some was to just to iratate.
as anybody that knows me will attest im a competitor and im high strung and
kind of emotional when i start playing etc.its the same when i argue.
im not justifing my actions i think i went overboard defending myself and im truly sorry to all the guys i disrespected back.i was acting like a jerk especially about mosconi ,truth be told i do look up to him bigtime.
im mean i havent event met many of you so im just talking into a computer screen.
you guys all know who i am and when you tell me how inferior me and my peers are its very insulting even if its true.
i understand im a good target for insults as it goes with being a known player etc etc.
i guess what im trying to say is you guys are completely right its an honer to be put in the same sentence as mosconi , and maybe someday this thread will comeout different.
,im a people person and when you guys think im classless that stings more than saying im not that good at pool. i havent slept good for 2 nights thinking about this thread and im ashamed how i reacted and i hope you guys as a group forgive me.
i dont want to go on my dirtbike trip without apologizing first as i think it could affect my concentration and crashing on that cactus might be more likely.
truth is im human i get nervous in matches ,theres players im scared of ,i worry about if im can make a living at pool etc.
its almost a defense mechanism some of us players have when we get told we cant win because pool is the most dog eat dog game ever.
i dont expect alot of you to ever speak good of me again and probably dont deserve it and im not saying all this because i want a new bunch of comments saying im a good guy for apologizing.
i know alot on here are always gonna say i suck and hate me etc but thousands on here are smart nice people and i really enjoy talking to you guys.
im hoping this thread just goes away and from now on im going to make a serious effort to not get insulted when people say things to bring me down.
im human just like everybody else on here and if you guys can bear with me and my crazy self ill appreciate it.
seriosly ive got a good life and career and if the worst thing people say about me is i cant play like mosconi i guess things arent so bad.
again im sorry everbody. im going to be off here for awhile as i think its not productive for me .
i should be practicing more instead of getting in arguments on the web.
after i get back from dirt biking in cali with my dad ill try to chime in and not make a ass out of my self lol.
bye for now john schmidt
mr jack ass 400
p.s. it was hard exposing my feelings and apologizing to everbody but i had too. playing the villian just isnt for me even if it is more exciting.
i feel better now getting all that off my chest.
you guys are like group therapy for me i think you should bill me .lol
John, I must say I was also kind of taken back by your comments. I am glad you made the above post to let us know where you are coming from.
Something like this below would have served you much better and is probably more truth about who you really are inside.
------------------------------------------
"Thank you for comparing me to one of our most respected 14.1 players of all time! Its truely an honor even to be compared to Willie, argueably the best ever. Who would have won? Truely who cares? I would have loved to live in his era and had the chance to try for sure. His record speaks for itself what kind of discipline and drive the great Mosconi had within, something we all strive for. His legend propels those of us who love this game to give it our all and treat this game with respect it deserves.
John Schmidt"
-------------------------------------
I would have loved to see a statement like that come from you instead of the reaction you had. Because in reality, I really think thats what you think.
Kevin Vidal
14and1.com
Something like this below would have served you much better and is probably more truth about who you really are inside.
------------------------------------------
"Thank you for comparing me to one of our most respected 14.1 players of all time! Its truely an honor even to be compared to Willie, argueably the best ever. Who would have won? Truely who cares? I would have loved to live in his era and had the chance to try for sure. His record speaks for itself what kind of discipline and drive the great Mosconi had within, something we all strive for. His legend propels those of us who love this game to give it our all and treat this game with respect it deserves.
John Schmidt"
-------------------------------------
I would have loved to see a statement like that come from you instead of the reaction you had. Because in reality, I really think thats what you think.
Kevin Vidal
14and1.com
I think that was commendable for you to say those things. Personally, for me, I dont think you have to apologize at all.
It's amazing to me how some people slip into a morality/classy super-suit with a big "MC" on their chests dogging you for conveying your opinion when some of the same people will be a classless a-hole in other threads, defending their views to the living death. And what's important is... that's not really a bad thing. We're pool players. We're emotional. We're egotistical..... and we're all classless a-holes when emotional and on-tilt.
John, if you started to comb your hair to the side and started to wear brown shoes and belts and walked around with a perma-smile trying to make everyone happy by being fake like Jim Bakker or John Edwards, I'd never watch you play again!!
I love all the class in football when players punch other players when in a pile or tearing someone to the ground by their face mask. I REALLY love all the love and classiness in hockey...the punches, the brawling, calling ex's pigs, etc. UFC has a ton of class...."I'm gonna knock this guy out and strut around like a peacock." Golf has its classy moments. Daly has had a number of moments-- but he was shit-faced, so that doesn't count lmao. Mickelson's dogged Tiger's sponsors, Tiger's caddy's dogged Mickelson. Oh... how's about Fuzzy and the collard-greens comment after Tiger snapped his first Masters?? Think he wants that one back?
My point is... if you don't like Mosconi... say it and say it with conviction... the guy wasn't necessarily an "angel" for those who knew him well. If someone doesn't like it, they'll get over it. If someone thinks you're classless, they're prob not a priest, minister, rabbi or motivational speaker themselves... I GUARANTEE IT.
It's amazing to me how some people slip into a morality/classy super-suit with a big "MC" on their chests dogging you for conveying your opinion when some of the same people will be a classless a-hole in other threads, defending their views to the living death. And what's important is... that's not really a bad thing. We're pool players. We're emotional. We're egotistical..... and we're all classless a-holes when emotional and on-tilt.
John, if you started to comb your hair to the side and started to wear brown shoes and belts and walked around with a perma-smile trying to make everyone happy by being fake like Jim Bakker or John Edwards, I'd never watch you play again!!
I love all the class in football when players punch other players when in a pile or tearing someone to the ground by their face mask. I REALLY love all the love and classiness in hockey...the punches, the brawling, calling ex's pigs, etc. UFC has a ton of class...."I'm gonna knock this guy out and strut around like a peacock." Golf has its classy moments. Daly has had a number of moments-- but he was shit-faced, so that doesn't count lmao. Mickelson's dogged Tiger's sponsors, Tiger's caddy's dogged Mickelson. Oh... how's about Fuzzy and the collard-greens comment after Tiger snapped his first Masters?? Think he wants that one back?
My point is... if you don't like Mosconi... say it and say it with conviction... the guy wasn't necessarily an "angel" for those who knew him well. If someone doesn't like it, they'll get over it. If someone thinks you're classless, they're prob not a priest, minister, rabbi or motivational speaker themselves... I GUARANTEE IT.
Just type in John Schmidt into Wikipedia and then type in Willie Masconi, I think Mr. Schmidt has a ways to go to even be mentioned in the same sentence. Also I just don't even know what to say about the worship comment except I hope he wasn't serious, or just used poor judgement in his choice of words. If anyone believes they would of robbed Willie at any game on a pool table without a spot then they are just delusional. John should show some respect for the past greats of the game and could certainly represent himself much better in a public forum and not be so sensitive to other peoples opinions. I have seen posts where everyone on here is saying how classy John is, but imho someone who is classy is always classy and it comes natural to them they don't have to act or keep their real feelings to themselves or watch what they post, in other words that is just the way they feel and don't have to put on an act.
I would love to see someone break the high run record and wish John the best in doing it.
Michael Bremer.............< real name
I would love to see someone break the high run record and wish John the best in doing it.
Michael Bremer.............< real name
John
We all have used poor judgment at times. I think I do it on a daily basis. I appreciate your courage in posting that apology and I believe that it squares things with those who were upset with your earlier posts in this thread. It certainly does with me. Best of luck in your future endeavors, dirt bike or otherwise!
BTW, my real name is Bill Porter.
We all have used poor judgment at times. I think I do it on a daily basis. I appreciate your courage in posting that apology and I believe that it squares things with those who were upset with your earlier posts in this thread. It certainly does with me. Best of luck in your future endeavors, dirt bike or otherwise!
BTW, my real name is Bill Porter.
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John,
I agree with Spidey. There is NO reason for an apology. What makes you the great player you are is what drives you every day to be the best at everything you do. You are a class guy. Thank you for allowing us railbirds a deeper view into your thought trane. Although it may not have seemed that way over the past couple of days, my guess is every one of us posters on this thread would be honored to play with you! Perhaps rack for you would be more accurate.
Lyn
I agree with Spidey. There is NO reason for an apology. What makes you the great player you are is what drives you every day to be the best at everything you do. You are a class guy. Thank you for allowing us railbirds a deeper view into your thought trane. Although it may not have seemed that way over the past couple of days, my guess is every one of us posters on this thread would be honored to play with you! Perhaps rack for you would be more accurate.
Lyn
john schmidt said:
Apology accepted. I, as a fan, appreciate your heartfelt apology. This is the guy that I met and admired. You are not a villain. That is a tough way to go through life. I tried it and was not happy. As I said before, I really hope you break the 526 and truly believe you can. Stay safe on the dirt bike, we want to see you at Valley Forge.
I don't think anyone would say Willie's achivements could not be beat. Or that John could not do it. Just we can't compare someone still young in their career (as compared) to what Willie achieved in his life. It would be an insult to him, and it would also be an insult to the person who eventually may beat Willie's achivements. Because eventually that person will be compared to the new guy still not up to their achivements in the game.
Thus, if a person is playing "hot" can they play "hot" for as long as Willie did. Thats the question, and what others should be judged on, not being the best at something for a passing day...
Thus, if a person is playing "hot" can they play "hot" for as long as Willie did. Thats the question, and what others should be judged on, not being the best at something for a passing day...
hit the nail on the head
I have seen posts where everyone on here is saying how classy John is, but imho someone who is classy is always classy and it comes natural to them they don't have to act or keep their real feelings to themselves or watch what they post, in other words that is just the way they feel and don't have to put on an act. said by klink
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I have seen posts where everyone on here is saying how classy John is, but imho someone who is classy is always classy and it comes natural to them they don't have to act or keep their real feelings to themselves or watch what they post, in other words that is just the way they feel and don't have to put on an act. said by klink
tap tap tap