Best 14:1 Player Ever-John Schmidt or Willie Mosconi?

[Grumpy]

The best??

Willie's famed high run of 526 balls was on a 4X8 Brunswick with 5 inch pockets, and practically no pocket shelf.

John Schmidt has run a 402 (I think that number's right. John, please correct me if I'm wrong), on a 4 1/2 X 9 Diamond Pro with 4 1/2 inch pockets.

I vote for John Schmidt, as the bigger table and smaller pockets make his accomplishment a lot harder to achieve.

I would almost guarantee that during Willie's run, he wobbled in a few balls that wouldn't have gone on the aforementioned Diamond.

Tight pockets make for a completely different pool game, imo.

Thoughts?

If high run is the benchmark, based on what I read in this thread John Schmidt
may not even be in the top 5.

 

[cueman]

thats cool.

my buddy boo weekley was doing a golf clinic.

someone in the crowd heckled him so he said watch this ,and made a hole in one on his next shot on demand.then he said if you think that was luck he made another for good measure.


.running 11 racks on demand would be about as tough but hey you said you saw it so i guess ill go with it.

think about how silly what you said sounds.


if willie ever ran 11 in his life he would be fortunate.

but to do it on demand to shut up a heckler is ridiculous and shows how people like to remember things.



by the way someone asked me the other day if my high run was 786.


they said someone told them it was my high run and that they watched the last 400 balls of it. you see what i mean.

by the way boo didnt really make the hole in one i made that up. i wouldnt want you to think that really happened .

I don't think it would be as hard as you are thinking. Willie racked his own without anyone inspecting his rack I am sure. He could have racked the corner ball dead and made it and ran the racks.

 

[jay helfert]

ive heard this he gave vach the 5 and the break on a 5x10.

hears the deal with that, the 5x10 would break so bad that willie was getting the first shot everygame because vach never made a ball on the break.

in reality he was damn near spotting willie.

it just shows how little they understood about pool back then.

it would be like someone saying john ill give you the break playing 6ball .

everybody knows you never hardly make a ball on the break at 6ball.

You're one sharp cat John. That's exactly how the game came down. Nicky couldn't make a ball on the break and Willie kept running out. But it isn't that easy to run out on a 5x10, unless you played like Mosconi. Nicky (and his crew) thought they had a lock and Willie outran the nuts.

Trust me my friend, the man could play pool. I know how much you appreciate good pool playing and if you ever saw him in his prime, you would have walked away shaking your head. Think about playing position like Efren and pocketing balls like you. He was close to every ball. A ball making machine someone called him. In long challenge matches, no one had a chance. He was liable to run a 200+ at any moment.

And he never let up until the game was over. Like Sigel, Mosconi rarely missed a ball that he shot at. He was always focused on ever shot. His ability to concentrate was as good as anyone I ever saw.

 

[Rich93]

Anyone reading John's last post would think that the posters on AZ have said a lot of nasty, disrespectful, and critical things about John and his pool game. I have read the whole thread to this point and have seen no comments of this sort. About the harshest thing I have seen are comments to the effect that John's 14.1 game is not as good as Mosconi's was in his prime.

I thought one or two went over the line in attempting to psychoanalyze John, but mainly you're right. Just about all posters who went with Mosconi were careful to point out how great a player John is.

Rich
IQ - somewhere in double digits
bank account - somewhere in double digits
dick size - SlipStic all-in-one bottle
high run - , but it's somewhere in double digits

 

[BillPorter]

I thought one or two went over the line in attempting to psychoanalyze John, but mainly you're right. Just about all posters who went with Mosconi were careful to point out how great a player John is.

Rich
IQ - somewhere in double digits
bank account - somewhere in double digits
dick size - SlipStic all-in-one bottle
high run - , but it's somewhere in double digits

I think John did not give enough consideration to the effects a thread such as this one can have on his image and subsequent sponsorships. In my mind, he would have served himself better by making a sharp distinction between inner and outer dialog. What I mean here is that if Mosconi were magically resurrected and about to play a match with John, John's outer dialog might be, "Mr. Mosconi, I'm honored to meet you, having heard of you all my life." On the other hand, his inner dialog might be, "I can't wait to play this guy cause I know I'm going to shoot his nuts off!" It's fine to be brimming with self-confidence and be convinced that you can go out and beat the world, but it's in your own best interests to be smart about how you present yourself in a public forum such as this one.

 

[pwd72s]

John mentioned playing the bad guy...an old story here, but evidently true.

The then Cassius Clay was about to fight in his first pro bout. He did a guest appearance on a local TV morning talk show. He gave the usual answers about facing a worthy opponent, he would do his best and hoped to win, etc...

Also on the show was Gorgeous George, the "wrassler", who was going to wrestle the same night Clay was fighting. George, in full costume, spoke of blood and mayhem, promising to behead his opponent, etc.

Much later, telling this story, Ali said that there were less than 1,000 ticket buyers for his fight, while Gorgeous George packed the stadium he was in.

Right then, "The Louisville Lip" was created...:grin:

A pro pool player could do worse than being "The Bad Guy"...especially when the cameras are on.

 

[Zagiflyer]

Anyone reading John's last post would think that the posters on AZ have said a lot of nasty, disrespectful, and critical things about John and his pool game. I have read the whole thread to this point and have seen no comments of this sort. About the harshest thing I have seen are comments to the effect that John's 14.1 game is not as good as Mosconi's was in his prime.

That's what I was thinking. I don't think that anybody here has suggested that John is anything less than an incredibly talented player who's SKILL at 14.1 (and other games) puts him among the best in the world today and probably from any other era as well. Whether or not he can translate that outstanding technical ability into enough wins over the years to make him one of the winningest (not sure that's a word) players ever remains to be seen. His ultimate success will depend on determination and will to win but the ability is there, of that there should be no doubt in anyone's mind.

This is a typical pointless (but still fun and intersting) message board thread by people who like pool and have some time to waste, there's nothing wrong with it. The unfortunate part was that John chose to respond at all and the nature of his responses was equally unfortunate. Like it or not when you are a celebrity (and John is in the pool world) you get judged on your character as well as your ability. I hate to say it but if I were a guy who had a business and a lot of money who was looking to sponsor a pool player this thread might make me think twice about JS although I do realize that it's human nature to have pride. A player of John's extreme level of talent who is also (I've heard) a really nice guy shouldn't feel the need to defend himself in a chat room. I have John's hi-run DVD and his responses to this forum don't even sound like they are from the same person, I like the guy on the DVD better. Here's what I would have said if I said anything at all:

"Mosconi was a legendary player with a great record that may never be equalled in 14.1 because the game is just not played that much anymore. I'm honored to be compared with him, his record speaks for itself. I would love to have been able to see him play or actually play him when he was in his prime, obviously that wasn't possible. Having said that I believe that my 14.1 game would stand up against anyone's when I am playing at my best and I know I could give him, or anybody from any era for that matter, a good game. I don't know if I will ever run more than 526 but I'll be gunning for that record in practice."

Concise, classy, respectful, confident and professional, that's how you play it. If this had been John's response this thread would have ended 50 posts ago.The rambling, defensive, sarcastic route doesn't earn respect. Just something to think about for the future. Unfortunately, it's easy to type things in a computer forum or E-mail that you might regret later and I think we've all done it; always take the high road and it will serve you well. You can't win trying to defend yourself in a comparison with a dead legend when you are still early in your career so why beat your head against a wall trying, you can only lose respect. Leave us appleheads to argue about nothing and go kick some butt with your cue. You're a great player to watch and I hope that DCC will just be one of many victories for you going forward.

 

[Celtic]

anyhow you hate me because as you eluded to ealier i beat stan out of money or i beat you out of money and woofed at you to play.

so you clearly you dislike me to begin with and frankly i understand.

Nah, you are not much at reading people. I was not backing Stan and I actually enjoyed watching you beat him. I like Stan, but he was also a player I thought was great and you were the first person I saw to decimate what I thought at the time was a "top" player. After that match I actually went out of my way to watch you play, I even bought some of your accustats videos. Asking me to play is not going to get me to not like you, I enjoy to gamble and I actually take it as a compliment that a pro would figure I might be someone who would play. Scott Frost came up to me and set my up in action one year down there, after meeting the guy to this day he is one of my favorite players to watch.

You might want to think that I dislike you because you asked me to gamble, but in fact I actually became a fan of yours after that. My current dislike for you is 100% your attitude towards the game and lack of respect you show on these forums.

 

[philw]

the truth is i dont idolize willie.

you know why its because he would have treaded me like shit with his pompous arrogant b.s. if i was his peer.


ask any of the guys from his era .

if i asked for his autograph and watched his clinic he might be nice to me.

for now everything ive done in pool and my peers have done in pool is compared to him.

frankly its gotten old to be told constantly how inferior we all are compared to him.
hes not my hero sorry.


the beauty of all this is all you guys out there who are ragging on me are clueless nobodys and will not affect me in the least have a nice day.


if anything this will be good for my career having tons of people hate and disrespect me.


being nice and polite hasnt paid my bills.


the only guy i know who made big money in pool was earl strickland and we all know how he talks to people.

he gets invited to the mosconi cup every year solely because hes even money to tell the crowd to f off.

i think to be famous in pool youve got to be hated and tell the fans off.


from now on i think im going to play the villian i would get more fame and money.

so to kick things off all you guys who are ripping on me about this mosconi thing can take a flying leap.

i appreciate you people pushing my buttons i think a year from now i will be thanking you for turning me into the villian.

it worked for earl.


another thing i think im going to start talking like minnasota fats..


efren cant beat me and never has.

im the best ever

thorston ran 404 so what ive banked that many in a row.

i would have robbed willie.

the whole womans tour needs weight.oh wait a minute you probably already knew that.

and last but not least 50 percent of the guys on az billiards run their mouth like they got a 200 iq,a million dollar bank account, a lysol can size dick, and a high run of 400.



in reality most of them have the iq of a 4ball,barely have enough money to pay their apa dues,and couldnt get laid in a womans prison, furthermore their shoe size is about the same as their high run. lol



in closing im not cool enough to hang out on this site and im not a good enough player apparently either.


but hey you guys shouldnt get mad i mean everybody has a right to their opinion right.thats what you keep telling me.

good by and good riddens im never writing another thing on this piece of shit moron gathering website.


p.s. i was in a good mood but you guys couldnt wait 2 days after i won a tourney to start talking about how bad we all play compared to god i mean willie.

well you can have him see how much he posts around here.

you know if this posts ends my career i swear you guys have done me a favor.


i have never seen a game where the top players are dissed on more and it pays like crap anyway so what the hell who cares it would be more time to ride the dirt bike. lol

John, I hope you're not putting me in the group of people that hate you or have dissed you, I have always enjoyed your game and thought you were a good sport but your response to the initial post just blew me away. I would have thought you would hold former greats in higher regard. It's a shame you won't be posting here again because it's great for a pro to participate in the discussions here.

 

[Celtic]

Anyone reading John's last post would think that the posters on AZ have said a lot of nasty, disrespectful, and critical things about John and his pool game. I have read the whole thread to this point and have seen no comments of this sort. About the harshest thing I have seen are comments to the effect that John's 14.1 game is not as good as Mosconi's was in his prime.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Celtic]

It's a shame you won't be posting here again because it's great for a pro to participate in the discussions here.

Seriously? Not responding and being an idiot like he has on this thread.

Losing Keith was hard, that guy might talk the talk but he is actually a pretty humble and truly great guy who just loves to entertain the crowd much like Alex or a Scott Frost. Keith added meaningful great dialogue to this board.

From the posting on this thread by John I can honestly not see anything at all that we might be losing. People talk of sponsers, if one came here, read what John wrote, and asked "thats a pro?" they would take their sponsership money to some other sport.

John, hate to burst your bubble but Earl is Earl, you cannot be another Earl because love him or hate him he is 100% original.

 

[metallicane]

John, I hope you're not putting me in the group of people that hate you or have dissed you, I have always enjoyed your game and thought you were a good sport but your response to the initial post just blew me away. I would have thought you would hold former greats in higher regard. It's a shame you won't be posting here again because it's great for a pro to participate in the discussions here.

It is funny. John likes the dirt bike message board because they treat their stars like Gods, but John treats Willie Mosconi like he is garbage, and Willie isn't even here to defend himself. John, go ahead and be the bad guy, see what it gets you.

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Out of curiousity, why did Keith leave?

 

["CaliRed".]

Anyone reading John's last post would think that the posters on AZ have said a lot of nasty, disrespectful, and critical things about John and his pool game. I have read the whole thread to this point and have seen no comments of this sort. About the harshest thing I have seen are comments to the effect that John's 14.1 game is not as good as Mosconi's was in his prime.

I'm like you, I have read the entire 12 pages of this thread and come away with exactly your take on it. I think many of us are left scratching our heads.

I saw someone else noticed the reference to that dirt bike forum "where pros are worshiped"

Me thinks that was a Freudian slip.

 

[cincyman]

you have a right to your opinion.

all im saying is todays best are great and he would have to play perfect to beat us all. oh thats right he only played one guy each year to determine who was world champ.

your probably one of those people who think minnesota fats was a great player too.


try not too be a jealous hater type person it doesnt look good on you.

i havent even seen you yet but ive got a pretty good picture in my head.


middle aged ,plays like crap and hates anybody whos great at anything.

you should have no trouble though because millions are just like you . good luck in life youll need it.

CLASS!!!!!!!!

 

[cincyman]

i feel you and i am being defensive and shouldnt.

thing is i just won a massive tourney with 350 players .

even though i havent played a tourney in 3 months and spent most of my time on my dirt bike.

point is when someone starts a thread and says congrats john on winning the tourney like 3 people chime in a say good shooting.


when someone compares me to willie 25 people chime in and say im not even in the same caliber,and go on for 2 pages talking how inferior i am.


why im looking for approval from people who are very ignorant and have trouble running 50 shows what a moron i can be sometimes.most of them like sjm mean well but have no clue sometimes.

like many have said im not in mosconis league.

well diliberto says i am .

well sjm for example is a nice guy but i dont put his opinion lightyears near dilibertos. sorry stu.

anyway threads like this remind me why i leave this site alone and hang out on thumpertalk.its a dirtbike forum where the pros are worshiped and not bashed constantly.

im going dirtbiking this whole next week and am not going to be on here thank god.


you guys can bash away as im going to be flying through the desert going 50-70 miles an hour trying not to die , nowhere near a computer.actually living life instead of talking about it.

i swear if i wreck and land on a cactus doing 60 it would be less aggravating than reading some of the insulting crap on here.


from now on i have a new rule i will only reply to people who use a real name.

that limits it to about 4 guys .

thats great as i hate to type.

im not telling everybody off ,just the haters . you know who you are.

everybody else on here is great but im done being the target on here.

have fun bash away

CLASS!!! maybe no congratulates said to you because of EXHIBIT A B C D E F . . .

more to come i am sure lol

 

[cincyman]

your missing what im saying.

it really is not about whether im as good as him or not.
its the way people say it .
with bold letters like hes not even in the same league so matter of a fact etc etc.

these are the same people i give free advice too.
dvds ,hang out with and go out of my way to be friendly with and encourage when they post their 30 ball runs on video etc.

what irks me is instead of saying i think mosconi would have edged john out because he played 30 years of 14.1 only.
maybe even something like john would have gave him a battle for sure but i would have to give the nod to willie.

instead these people who act like my best friend as soon as they get a chance talk like im a ****ing joke and im sick of it.

you know i walk into a poolroom screw my cue together and run ,157,234,191, in like 5 innings.
the next day 289,167,187. in 6 innings

thats everyday when i play 14.1 which is hardly ever.

anyway my point is i know what im capable of the people at home dont because they see me 4 times a year.and when i do play its on a table way harder then back in the day.so do me a favor and get a clue.thorston and the other top players of today are as good as anybody ever and anybody who dont understand that just come on down and play us for a month,trust me.


in closing im tired of people acting like a buddy and then every chance they get to belittle me ,and my game they take it. ive had enough of this piece of shit forum ,.and understand why none of the other pros deal with some of the idiots on here.

you know the saying say something nice or shut the hell up.well that applies here.

Stay CLASSY:thumbup:

 

[cincyman]

Wow, just wow.




something i want to put in perspective was mosconi was sponsored ,played several exibitions a year etc.

his peers had jobs ,crane sold cars,balsis the butcher, cranfield rca records.etc

the guys i play today have no jobs and their is 200 of them who never miss a ball.

then you compare guys liuke me by saying oh you havent won a million times.

give me a break

anyhow you hate me because as you eluded to ealier i beat stan out of money or i beat you out of money and woofed at you to play.

so you clearly you dislike me to begin with and frankly i understand.

that explains your hostility and why you talk about mosconi like he was your dad.

well its not my job to walk around and say mosconi was the greatest blah blah.

actually several guys tried to gamble with him and lassiter i heard wanted to play him nineball.

anyway willie was awesome but to say the guys today arent in the same league shows your clueless is all.

CLASS? for you to decide

 

[cincyman]

the truth is i dont idolize willie.

you know why its because he would have treaded me like shit with his pompous arrogant b.s. if i was his peer.


ask any of the guys from his era .

if i asked for his autograph and watched his clinic he might be nice to me.

for now everything ive done in pool and my peers have done in pool is compared to him.

frankly its gotten old to be told constantly how inferior we all are compared to him.
hes not my hero sorry.


the beauty of all this is all you guys out there who are ragging on me are clueless nobodys and will not affect me in the least have a nice day.


if anything this will be good for my career having tons of people hate and disrespect me.


being nice and polite hasnt paid my bills.


the only guy i know who made big money in pool was earl strickland and we all know how he talks to people.

he gets invited to the mosconi cup every year solely because hes even money to tell the crowd to f off.

i think to be famous in pool youve got to be hated and tell the fans off.


from now on i think im going to play the villian i would get more fame and money.

so to kick things off all you guys who are ripping on me about this mosconi thing can take a flying leap.

i appreciate you people pushing my buttons i think a year from now i will be thanking you for turning me into the villian.

it worked for earl.


another thing i think im going to start talking like minnasota fats..


efren cant beat me and never has.

im the best ever

thorston ran 404 so what ive banked that many in a row.

i would have robbed willie.

the whole womans tour needs weight.oh wait a minute you probably already knew that.

and last but not least 50 percent of the guys on az billiards run their mouth like they got a 200 iq,a million dollar bank account, a lysol can size dick, and a high run of 400.



in reality most of them have the iq of a 4ball,barely have enough money to pay their apa dues,and couldnt get laid in a womans prison, furthermore their shoe size is about the same as their high run. lol



in closing im not cool enough to hang out on this site and im not a good enough player apparently either.


but hey you guys shouldnt get mad i mean everybody has a right to their opinion right.thats what you keep telling me.

good by and good riddens im never writing another thing on this piece of shit moron gathering website.


p.s. i was in a good mood but you guys couldnt wait 2 days after i won a tourney to start talking about how bad we all play compared to god i mean willie.

well you can have him see how much he posts around here.

you know if this posts ends my career i swear you guys have done me a favor.


i have never seen a game where the top players are dissed on more and it pays like crap anyway so what the hell who cares it would be more time to ride the dirt bike. lol

CLASSSSSSSS!!

 

[Seneca Steve]

Willie

They don`t compare !!!!!!!