Best Cue Sport Player of All Time

[bengus]

Filipino here, some food for thought on some of the comments:

Balkline Billiards (according to accounts of people - I don't think it's Straight Rail as one of the Filipino posters here said) was popular from the seventies till the early eighties in the Philippines. Mid-eighties, they all but disappeared. So the people who played it were of that generation - Luat, Reyes. I think you can see much of that in their cue ball control precision, which is what's needed when navigating a Rotation billiards (popular then) spread.

The current crop learn other games by necessity. Marlon Manalo and Andam learned snooker to get better opportunities to be on the National Team during the South East Asian Games.

***********

Other notes on Reyes:

Reyes won a South East Asian Games gold medal in English Billiards in 1988. He first learned the game a week before the competition occured, and then learned the game further on the fly during the competition observing the other players.

Just to give you guys an idea how much raw talent the man has...

 

[cueball1950]

Frank Taberski...who is also known as the father of the shot clock. played so slow that at 1 time his opponent fell asleep in a chair.

Johnny Layton......who also was the catcher for the 1916 chicago white sox along with tinker,evers and chance. he quit playing baseball when he won the 1916 3 cushion billiards championship and i read in the record book that he also won pocket billiard titles. and to think, he quit 3 years before the black sox scandle......well anyway. those are my picks........mike

 

[jay helfert]

In the 70s, Eddie Kelly stated (to me and others)that Harold Worst was the only guy he knew that he couldnt beat playing Nineball. Consider, Kelly had already gone to Elizabeth City, NC with Ronnie and played Wimpy for a week to a draw in Wimpy's home pool room.
In the Spivey proposition, Worst, Squirrel and Taylor were eventually all barred from the game. However to encourage action from the weaker players, Spivey would allow the man shooting to call in anybody he wished to shoot 1 shot in the run as a pinch-hitter. The point total for the average good player was 160. Naturally, everybody used Worst to shoot the impossible straight-in and Eddie Taylor to shoot the impossible bank that would keep the run going. Worst and Taylor made so many ridiculous shots that this practice too was soon discontinued by Spivey.

(Jay, I dont think there were that many pills (1 to 50) in the bottle. I think there were only 21. )

the Beard

I was working at The Cue And Bridge in Dayton, Ohio in the early 60's, where George Rood would come in to practice almost every day. He would set up a break shot and run 100 or more balls and quit. Then he would throw the balls on the table and run rack after rack of Nine Ball.

Most of the good players would only sit and watch him practice, he was so far above anyone else in Dayton. One day a sharply dressed young man came in carrying a custom cue and walked up to the counter and inquired about a game. I told him that there was an older gentleman that comes in every day, that would probably acommodate him.

So I gave him the balls to Table 1 and he began to loosen up. Sure enough, less than an hour later, George came in. George asked me who the fellow on the first table was. And I told him he was looking for a game. George walked over and asked the guy if he wanted a game. Pretty quickly they were playing $10 9-Ball. After a time, George got him stuck five or six games. The fellow asked to raise the bet to $20. George shook his head no.

When George got up maybe $80 or $90, the young fellow asked him again to raise the bet. George looked at him and said, "Son, you're gonna have to win it back the same way you lost it". This seemed to frustrate the young man and he lost a few more games and quit.

Several months later I made my first trek to Johnson City and saw the young man again. That was when I learned he was Eddie Kelly.

 

[bengus]

I've heard this from a lot of people. That is one reason I may go to Sheffield this year for the World Snooker Championships. The best new talent I've seen out there is Dennis Orcullo. He looks like the real deal to me.

The Billiards people in the Philippines consider Dennis to be the best among the Filipinos - period. He isn't called "King of the Money Game" for nothing.

 

[i_maycotte]

Not sure if this name has been mentioned...but Don Wilson from Ohio comes to mind...very strong player at just about any game...on or off the table from what I understand.

 

[TheOne]

You need a new HD television then. Failing that, Holyfield is the bare chested one in the baggy shorts.

Boro Nut

LMAO, one of your funniest in a while boro, for that alone I hope the boro, don't finish bottom, 3rd from bottom would be nice!

Jay, go to the crucible if you can, it might only be there fro a few more years. Its tough to get tickets though and you really need to see the semi or final when they move from a 2 table to single table layout. If the snooker is anything like the way Ronnie and Ding played in the recent tournament I'm sure you'll enjoy it. There won't be any high fives, mexican waves, or punchups but I'm sure you'll enjoy it, hey atleast you won't get askwed to leave!

 

[ironman]

Any Bumper Pool tournament would have to favor, Marcus Collier and Woppie.

Dang $Bill, you forgot about Stan Mercer, the one armed guy from Waldo Ark.

 

[ironman]

Right on, Bill. I interpreted Jason's original question as wanting picks of which player was the best player who played several different cue games. Efren reportedly is a decent 3C player, but nowhere near great. Worst excelled and won major tournaments in all disciplines. However, if the proposition is who was the greatest player to pick up a cue in any cue game, then there is no answer.

Doc

You know, Ed Kelly might have something to say about all this too.

 

[ironman]

John Henry the older guy from Chicago? I backed a strong onepocket player against him 15 years ago and fired three barrels at him he broke ran out, combo banked a ball in and ran out, then broke and ran out

He has had some health problems and is getting up there, but, still plays pretty good one pocket. Just mention Rags name and his eyes twinkle like a teenager.

 

[smashmouth]

So Dennis beats Efren for the dough, and the guys over there say he's
the best?

I'm not saying that isn't true but it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[jay helfert]

Not sure if this name has been mentioned...but Don Wilson from Ohio comes to mind...very strong player at just about any game...on or off the table from what I understand.

You mean Don Willis, one of the all time great hustlers. He was right there with Lassiter in his prime. In fact they were even road partners for a time. Both were friendly with George Rood, and when they came thru Dayton would stop and visit with him. Lassiter came thru quite often.

I never saw any of these three play each other, probably because they were old friends and roadies. By the way, when Lassiter was asked who was the best 9-Ball player he ever played, his response was George Rood. George is still alive and was in Derby City this year and played in the Three Cushion at the tender age of 94.

When Lassiter came thru town he never got a game, he was so well known. But Willis could still hustle pool in the 60's, people knew his name but not what he looked like, ala Jack Cooney.

 

[jay helfert]

So Dennis beats Efren for the dough, and the guys over there say he's
the best?

I'm not saying that isn't true but it's a tough pill to swallow.

Better get a big glass of water.

 

[huckster]

You mean Don Willis, one of the all time great hustlers. He was right there with Lassiter in his prime. In fact they were even road partners for a time. Both were friendly with George Rood, and when they came thru Dayton would stop and visit with him. Lassiter came thru quite often.

I never saw any of these three play each other, probably because they were old friends and roadies. By the way, when Lassiter was asked who was the best 9-Ball player he ever played, his response was George Rood. George is still alive and was in Derby City this year and played in the Three Cushion at the tender age of 94.

When Lassiter came thru town he never got a game, he was so well known. But Willis could still hustle pool in the 60's, people knew his name but not what he looked like, ala Jack Cooney.

Jay,
Did you ever meet my garandfather when you were younger?I think his last serious road trip was in the early seventies. His prime was before your time he told me he played his best pool from 1942-1964. He told me some unbelievable stories about guys he beat playing nineball. It was like a who's who of pool. The only guy who he told me he had a losing record against was Harold Worst. He told me Mr. Worst beat him twice (the first time he was down with the flu) and he beat him once. He did tell me that they played to 200 straights and grandpa won after running about 100 and out. He told me that wimpy was the greatest ever in his mind. He did not hold Mr. Mosconi in very high opinon in any game ecept straight pool, and he told me that he would have played Willie for 10,000 straights to a thousand balls if he would have remained anyomous. He told me Willie was the greatest at exhibitions, but he was the greatest at getting the money.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,
Did you ever meet my garandfather when you were younger?I think his last serious road trip was in the early seventies. His prime was before your time he told me he played his best pool from 1942-1964. He told me some unbelievable stories about guys he beat playing nineball. It was like a who's who of pool. The only guy who he told me he had a losing record against was Harold Worst. He told me Mr. Worst beat him twice (the first time he was down with the flu) and he beat him once. He did tell me that they played to 200 straights and grandpa won after running about 100 and out. He told me that wimpy was the greatest ever in his mind. He did not hold Mr. Mosconi in very high opinon in any game ecept straight pool, and he told me that he would have played Willie for 10,000 straights to a thousand balls if he would have remained anyomous. He told me Willie was the greatest at exhibitions, but he was the greatest at getting the money.

Who's your grandfather? I started out in '61 as a teenager.

 

[freddy the beard]

The Cinncinnati Kid, Don Willis

Who's your grandfather? I started out in '61 as a teenager.

He was called the Cinncinnati Kid, Don Willis, but he was really from Canton, Ohio. I met him a few times. Super nice guy. I would have given anything to have hung out with him when he was on the road. Amazingly, he lost about 100$ playing nineball with Eddie Robin (Yes, the 1 pkt book writer) in Chicago. He was playing on the old Harold Worst brand, 4x8 tables. They didnt even have real slate. Super freak equipment. They were like toy tables and Robin could run hundreds on them. Willis started out stalling, and Robin, being from New York, once he got winner would not raise the bet. I talked to Willis about it when he stopped in Bensingers later that day. He said he well aware of the "7/11, Ames" gamble and knew he could never get even and he would have to show too much speed to even come close, so he quit and took the small loss. Robin lives in Vegas today and is now helpless playing pool. Eddie has to treat me very well because I am one of the few humans, if only human, who can verify that he beat Don Willis.

the Beard

 

[Big Bad Bern]

I have heard alot about Johnny Irish, just wondering where Freddie, Jay or anybody else might rank him.

I heard that he really didn't like to gamble, but if you got him to, you were just dead.

Thanks

Bern

 

[jay helfert]

He was called the Cinncinnati Kid, Don Willis, but he was really from Canton, Ohio. I met him a few times. Super nice guy. I would have given anything to have hung out with him when he was on the road. Amazingly, he lost about 100$ playing nineball with Eddie Robin (Yes, the 1 pkt book writer) in Chicago. He was playing on the old Harold Worst brand, 4x8 tables. They didnt even have real slate. Super freak equipment. They were like toy tables and Robin could run hundreds on them. Willis started out stalling, and Robin, being from New York, once he got winner would not raise the bet. I talked to Willis about it when he stopped in Bensingers later that day. He said he well aware of the "7/11, Ames" gamble and knew he could never get even and he would have to show too much speed to even come close, so he quit and took the small loss. Robin lives in Vegas today and is now helpless playing pool. Eddie has to treat me very well because I am one of the few humans, if only human, who can verify that he beat Don Willis.

the Beard

I saw Eddie chase Fats around the Michigan State Fairgrounds in 1963, trying to get him into a Three Cushion game. That was Eddie's best game by far, as you know. Well Eddie finally trapped Fats in a 50 point game for $500. Eddie led all the way, until Fats ran nine and out from being down 46-41. To this day, Eddie denies it happened. I was an eye witness!

There was a bigger crowd watching this game than Cornbread and Worst who were playing in the tournament.

 

[freddy the beard]

Johnny Lineen

I have heard alot about Johnny Irish, just wondering where Freddie, Jay or anybody else might rank him.

I heard that he really didn't like to gamble, but if you got him to, you were just dead.

Thanks

Bern

His name was Johnny "Irish" Lineen. He was as good with the bottle as he was with the cue. With the cue he was one of the greatest that ever lived. He also played all games, save bank pool, including 3 cushion. I never got to see him play. He used to go to Miami every winter but he died the winter I got down there (61 or 62). He had to spot just about everybody playing everything all up and down the East Coast. He wasnt a very good hustler, however, as he was usually broke.

the Beard

 

[jay helfert]

His name was Johnny "Irish" Lineen. He was as good with the bottle as he was with the cue. With the cue he was one of the greatest that ever lived. He also played all games, save bank pool, including 3 cushion. I never got to see him play. He used to go to Miami every winter but he died the winter I got down there (61 or 62). He had to spot just about everybody playing everything all up and down the East Coast. He wasnt a very good hustler, however, as he was usually broke.

the Beard

I first went into 7-11 in 1964 and got hustled by everybody. Brooklyn Butch was there and told me later Irish was one of the guys that hustled me. Maybe he is mistaken. Butch liked me because I would get up and play anyone. Only one small problem. They ALL beat me.

 

[jay helfert]

I first went into 7-11 in 1964 and got hustled by everybody. Brooklyn Butch was there and told me later Irish was one of the guys that hustled me. Maybe he is mistaken. Butch liked me because I would get up and play anyone. Only one small problem. They ALL beat me.

I heard the same thing, that Irish was the best player in 7-11 and in New York. Some claim he is the all time best. He is right there with Greenleaf, Hayden Van Lingo, Rags, Efren and Worst for the best player of all time. And maybe James Evans too.

Mosconi just doen't cut it with this crowd. Sorry. I'd like to hear more about Youngblood Washington. and you knew him Freddie. I never saw him play. At least not that I know of.