Best Cue Sport Player of All Time

sjm said:
My top five of all time are:

1. Efren Reyes
2. Efren Reyes
3. Efren Reyes
4. Efren reyes
5. Raymond Ceulemans

PS Though he was a great player, I don't see how one can rate Harold Worst above his more successful contemporary Luther Lassiter.
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All around Harold Worst would have owned Wimpy.

14.1 Wimpy but harold might just run 200 and out at anytime]

9 ball Toss up wimpy was the best but nobody ever played Worst even one time Wimpy and Worst were supposed to play 200 a game and id didn't happen Wimpy did not want the super hard action Worst thrived on it

onepocket Worst by a slim margin

Billiards Worst was a world champion

Banks Worst was underated in this discipline it took a strong specialist to beat him

Snooker Worst was the best snooker player in the US he beat Cowboy Jimmy Moore after Jimmy won the US championship
 
sjm said:
My top five of all time are:

1. Efren Reyes
2. Efren Reyes
3. Efren Reyes
4. Efren reyes
5. Raymond Ceulemans

PS Though he was a great player, I don't see how one can rate Harold Worst above his more successful contemporary Luther Lassiter.
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Unfortunately, Harold died at age 37. He had already won major events in 9-Ball and Snooker and a Three cushion World Championship. No telling what he could have accomplished. Lassiter and Worst were equals in my opinion.
 
All Time Best Cueist

I've seen many great ones in my day, and I was most impressed with Harold Worst and his willingness to play anyone at any game. Lassiter was simply amazing at 9-Ball and 14.1, but only average at One Hole. He was quite the gambler also, but a little reluctant to tangle with this relative newcomer to pool named Worst.

Sigel was a great, great tournament player, but a little tight when it came to gambling. Earl is the single most amazing 9-Ball tournament player I ever saw. Meanwhile Parica robbed all of them when it came to getting down for the cash. He may have been the best for the money I've seen in my lifetime.

Like Worst, Efren is remarkable in his ability to learn and excell at all games. His reputation hinges somewhat on his great One Pocket game, which may be the toughest test on a pool table. That and the fact that he somehow finds a way to win in the biggest matches against the best players, at any game.

But for my money, the most impressive individual I ever saw with a cue in his hand was Raymond Ceulemans. He owned the balls when he played (and continues to play). To me, Three Cushion is a more difficult discipline than any pocket game. And Mr. C. did things with those three big balls that I didn't think were possible. And then he did it again and again.

I can't speak for Lindrum, didn't see him play. Or Chenier or Steve or Joe Davis for that matter. Same goes for Greenleaf, who the oldtimers worshipped over Mosconi.

But I have seen Ceulemans, Worst and Lassiter. And they are my top three picks. With Efren, Parica, Mizerak and Buddy next in line. Mizerak had a better stroke than anyone ever, and was unquestionably the best pool player on the planet for a number of years. He wasn't much for gambling though. Buddy, on the other hand could play all games and would gamble with anyone at 9-Ball, Banks or One Pocket.

I don't think Efren or Jose would have liked gambling with Buddy if they had to play all three games in the 70's, 80's or 90's. Same goes for Mizerak (circa 70's and 80's) if the games were 9-Ball, 14.1 and One Pocket, and it was a set match rather than gambling per se. And during the 60's and early 70's the mighty Miz would not have matched up well gambling (or match play) with Eddie Kelly at these three games. He is in the mix too.

IMHO
 
gulfportdoc said:
Apart from your reverence of Efren, what are you basing your opinion on? Efren's pool-playing prowess is legendary, and understood by everyone; but which 3C, carom, or snooker titles has he won?

Doc
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I never saw Worst play, Doc. I know a lot of the old heads and many of them believe he would be the top all around player ever. I can't say. But, as you know, I went down fighting believeing Ronnie Allen was the greatest one pocket player ever until Efren convinced me Ronnie was second. I am sure you will agree, Efren is getting better the older he gets, at one pocket. No one can deny his 9 ball ability and he also just won the IPT 8 ball against the best in the world. As much as I respect the, older than me even, guys I find it impossible to believe anyone ever a better cuest than Efren. BTW, the Professor's No Tournament Weekend is still going strong. He is DA MAN.
 
Great comments everyone...I forgot one very, very important game...

Bumper Pool!

;)
 
I have always heard that 3 cushion is Efren's best game, so all around I would have to say Efren. I have never seen him play snooker though....wonder if Allison would give him a run for the money on the 6x12?

Southpaw
 
I believe Joe Davis was the world champion at both 3c and snooker simultaneously. If so, then he would have few, if any, peers in that category.
 
You heard wrong about 3C and Efren.

Southpaw said:
I have always heard that 3 cushion is Efren's best game, so all around I would have to say Efren. I have never seen him play snooker though....wonder if Allison would give him a run for the money on the 6x12?

Southpaw
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Ceulemans, Hoppe, Mosconi, Greenleaf and Reyes

sjm said:
My top five of all time are:

1. Efren Reyes
2. Efren Reyes
3. Efren Reyes
4. Efren reyes
5. Raymond Ceulemans

PS Though he was a great player, I don't see how one can rate Harold Worst above his more successful contemporary Luther Lassiter.
Click to expand...
On Worst vs. Lassiter, I think you underestimate the tremendous accomplishment of a world champion at 3-C billiards transforming himself into an all-around pool world champion (Johnston City, Stardust). Champion at both, not champion at one and good at the other. It's like Babe Ruth being both a great pitcher and hitter - not quite that extraordinary, perhaps. So I easily vote for Worst against Lassiter.

Now, about Efren, I would not argue against the proposition that he is the best "all-around" pool player ever, since he plays all games at a top level. But let's not dismiss Mosconi and Greenleaf so readily. We can't very well vote for them as "all-around" champs because in their prime they paid little or no attention to 9-ball or 1P. They were tournament players and the tournaments were straight pool. What put money in their pockets was being the best straight pool players they could be, not the best "all-around". They dominated their eras. If Efren were playing today in a similar straight pool era and focused exclusively on that game, maybe he would dominate similarly. If Mosconi or Greenleaf were playing in today's era, maybe they would equal or even exceed Efren's achievements. It's all hypothetical. My point is, let's not forget how good Mosconi and Greenleaf were.

Finally, if dominance during an era is a criteria for "greatest cueist of all time", and it should be, then Ceulemans belongs on your list as you have him, but higher than 5th. He should probably be first, with Willie Hoppe somewhere on there also. So here's my list: Ceulemans, Hoppe, and, tied for 3rd - Greenleaf, Mosconi, and Reyes. Special mention with an asterisk for Harold Worst, who simply died too young to make the list. I wish I could put Mizerak in there too, but he was not quite as dominant as the others.
Rich
 
Talking from a Snooker perspective, Quinten Hann, although I do not have much time for him, has done well in Snooker, English 8-Ball and 9-Ball.

For me, it is probably Efren.

Ronnie could be up there, but as Snooker has been the main cuesport in the UK, you just do not get many Snooker players competing in Pool.


One thing I will say is, our UK 8-Ball players could cope well in other American Pool disciplines, I am looking forward to seeing how Mick Hill, Darren Appleton, Karl Boyes etc do on the IPT.
 
Aaron_S said:
I believe Joe Davis was the world champion at both 3c and snooker simultaneously. If so, then he would have few, if any, peers in that category.
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Not 3c, he played English Billiards. I don't know if he was a simultaneous champion though. I have heard that he couldn't beat Walter Lindrum in English Billiards.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Not 3c, he played English Billiards. I don't know if he was a simultaneous champion though. I have heard that he couldn't beat Walter Lindrum in English Billiards.
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Ahh, thanks for the clarification on that. I knew he was dominant at snooker for a while, and I thought there was something else in there, just couldn't remember what.

Good luck!
 
Southpaw said:
Any kind of facts to back this up, or is it opinion?

Southpaw
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Efren has won major championships including full compliments of elite pro opponents in 8-ball, 9-ball, and 1-pocket, and possibly other games, too. He is a favorite to win any of these three games no matter who he's playing, in the opinion of many credible experts, including some of the pros themselves that post here.

He's never won a 3C tournament that included a full compliment of top pros, according to posters here who follow the 3C scene closely, including Bob Jewett, to name one very reputable source. He could get a substantial spot from second-tier pros. He's an extremely good 3C player, but he's not a top-tier 3C player.

I would say based on that information, none of which is quantitative or statistical, but all of which I consider to be very reliable, that 3C is his fourth-best game after the three I've mentioned, if not 5th or 6th (since I know he's one of the best at rotation, and I've heard he's very good at straight rail, 14.1, and even snooker).

-Andrew
 
I think we should petition to have a world bumper pool tournament at Derby City this year! Any takers?
 
gulfportdoc said:
Apart from your reverence of Efren, what are you basing your opinion on? Efren's pool-playing prowess is legendary, and understood by everyone; but which 3C, carom, or snooker titles has he won?

Doc
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Admittedly so, by Efren, his "best game" is Balkline 18.2(?).
 
Southpaw said:
Any kind of facts to back this up, or is it opinion?

Southpaw
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ditto to andrew manning's reply. any 3c player who HAS played or watched efren will tell you the same. efren is great,,,,,,for a pool player, but he plays 3c like a pool player, not a 3c player. he is a second tier 3c player with a 1 handicap. i'm not impuning his all-around skills, but to say 3c is his best game is ridiculous. someone also posted he plays balkline at a 40 average, which is again ridiculous.
 
1 and 2 cushion billiards

bruin70 said:
ditto to andrew manning's reply. any 3c player who HAS played or watched efren will tell you the same. efren is great,,,,,,for a pool player, but he plays 3c like a pool player, not a 3c player. he is a second tier 3c player with a 1 handicap. i'm not impuning his all-around skills, but to say 3c is his best game is ridiculous. someone also posted he plays balkline at a 40 average, which is again ridiculous.
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If you think Effy was not a great all-around billiard player, consider this: The great champion, Sang Lee could only beat Efren playing 3 cushion! He couldnt win playing straight rail, balkline, or 1 cushion or 2 cushion billiards. Sang Lee, a man with a lot of gamble, tried Efren these games unsuccessfully at Chris's Billiards in Chicago when they were both living there. My dream game is Efren playing 1pocket with Harold Worst.

the Beard
 
jason said:
I think we should petition to have a world bumper pool tournament at Derby City this year! Any takers?
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Any Bumper Pool tournament would have to favor, Marcus Collier and Woppie.
 
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