Best instructors in pool?

[pooltchr]

Thank you Dave. You have proved what Scott and Randy have been saying. The amount of spin transfer is, at best, extremely slight, nearly to the point of being insignificant. You also show that the condition of the balls (chalk on the ball) can make the amount of transfer quite inconsistant.
The follow causing draw appeared to cause the object ball to change orientation by perhaps 1 or 2 degrees while the skid looked to be about 3 or 4 inches. From a practical standpoint, I don't see where either draw or follow on the cue ball would have any noticable difference in what the object ball will do. They are both going to end the skidding and begin to pick up forward roll at nearly the exact same distance after contact.
Steve

 

[Bob Jewett]

... The amount of spin transfer is, at best, extremely slight, nearly to the point of being insignificant. ...

I would say "slight" rather than "extremely slight." There are two major cases where the spin transfer makes a difference on the object ball to the extent where you might not even come close to the shot you are trying if you don't include the effect:

The front ball of a frozen-ball combo goes "through" the back ball some. It can be helped to go through with draw.

A banked ball can have its banking angle changed by up to five degrees by spin transfer. That's over half a diamond in the length of the table. As pointed out above, this allows you to bank around obstacles.

 

[dr_dave]

frozen object ball draw-to-follow spin transfer

The front ball of a frozen-ball combo goes "through" the back ball some. It can be helped to go through with draw.

FYI, here's a video demo of this:

HSV A.90 - two frozen object balls hit squarely with a 0-degree approach angle draw shot at slow and fast speeds
​

Regards,
Dave

 

[JoeyA]

I think from what I've heard, you have to put Tony Robles up there at the top.

I've also heard Joe Tucker is a task master.

Blackjack has a great reputation from the posts I see hear on AZ.

I'm looking forward to meeting all three of them one day.
I didn't mention the others that have already been mentioned.

JoeyA

 

[Luxury]

Thank you Dave. You have proved what Scott and Randy have been saying. The amount of spin transfer is, at best, extremely slight, nearly to the point of being insignificant. You also show that the condition of the balls (chalk on the ball) can make the amount of transfer quite inconsistant.
The follow causing draw appeared to cause the object ball to change orientation by perhaps 1 or 2 degrees while the skid looked to be about 3 or 4 inches. From a practical standpoint, I don't see where either draw or follow on the cue ball would have any noticable difference in what the object ball will do. They are both going to end the skidding and begin to pick up forward roll at nearly the exact same distance after contact.
Steve

I am not an instructor at all but I am here to tell you that draw and follow on the cue ball will do extremely amazing things to frozen object balls. I'm talking about game winning shots that make all the difference and if you don't have this knowledge you would never make what looks like an impossible shot. Look at page 69 of Phil Capelle's "Play your best pool" under Dead carom shots/throw caroms

Here is something that might surprise you: two balls have both been spotted and are now frozen in a game of one pocket. Cue ball is in the dead center of the table. I sent the ball that was closest to the cue ball straight into the corner on that end of the table.

Using follow will make an object ball bend backwards big time if the object ball has a ball or especially 2 frozen behind it too.

I'm sure someone has some youtube video of all this.

 

[Luxury]

Oh yeah and a big shout out to Gary Helgeson who has been working with me for a few years now. He took a lesson from Paul Portier sp? and suggested I take one as well. Paul's one lesson had a BIG impact on my game.

If you are in Washington and want Paul's # pm me. He has actually played professional pool tournaments.

 

[dr_dave]

spin transfer videos, articles, analysis

FYI, you can find links to many video demonstrations and well-illustrated articles related to spin transfer here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html#spin
​

After viewing these resources, there should be no question whether or not spin transfer exists and is useful.

Just to be clear, it does exist and it is useful!

Regards,
Dave

Scott, no disrespect to you or other instructors but, a lot of you are teaching that
the cue ball has no effect on the object balls. Call me when you can come to Atlanta
and if you prove me wrong, You can bust me. C J Wiley will take some action also.

I'm not an instructor,and don't try to be one.

I just know that after playing pool for 30 yrs. the cue ball transfers english to the
object ball.

How else can you twist bank shots or throw bank shots?

How about very thin cut shots with a ton of spin on the cue ball?
I,m also sure you are very good at what you do.

I will take your action on this, and pay off if i lose!!!!
Mark Gregory 770-548-4292

 

[dr_dave]

one-pocket frozen-ball spin transfer

FYI, here's a classic example:

HSV B.7 - one-pocket frozen-ball spot shot
​

Regards,
Dave

I am not an instructor at all but I am here to tell you that draw and follow on the cue ball will do extremely amazing things to frozen object balls. I'm talking about game winning shots that make all the difference and if you don't have this knowledge you would never make what looks like an impossible shot. Look at page 69 of Phil Capelle's "Play your best pool" under Dead carom shots/throw caroms

Here is something that might surprise you: two balls have both been spotted and are now frozen in a game of one pocket. Cue ball is in the dead center of the table. I sent the ball that was closest to the cue ball straight into the corner on that end of the table.

Using follow will make an object ball bend backwards big time if the object ball has a ball or especially 2 frozen behind it too.

I'm sure someone has some youtube video of all this.

 

[JoeyA]

Here are some videos showing the effects:

HSV A.143 - follow shot showing limited spin transfer and "vertical throw"

HSV A.144 - follow shot with chalk on the object ball to increase throw and spin transfer

HSV A.145 - draw shot showing limited spin transfer and "vertical throw"

HSV A.146 - draw shot with chalk on the object ball to increase throw and spin transfer
​

The effects are small (except for cling shots), but they do exist; although, there aren't many real shots where the effects are useful.

Regards,
Dave

HSV A. 145 very clearly shows the object ball with a minute amount of backspin from spin induced by a cue ball using follow.

JoeyA

 

[perfectpocketz]

FYI, you can find links to many video demonstrations and well-illustrated articles related to spin transfer here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html#spin
​

After viewing these resources, there should be no question whether or not spin transfer exists and is useful.

Just to be clear, it does exist and it is useful!

Regards,
Dave

Thank you for your insight and help in proving english has a lot of out come on the shot.
I really don't want to upset anyone about this thread or act as i know everything about playing pool. I just don't agree with people saying english has little effect
or no effect on the object ball.

I hope this can rest now!!!!

Thank-you Mark Gregory

 

[Island Drive]

Thank you for your insight and help in proving english has a lot of out come on the shot.
I really don't want to upset anyone about this thread or act as i know everything about playing pool. I just don't agree with people saying english has little effect
or no effect on the object ball.

I hope this can rest now!!!!

Thank-you Mark Gregory

Other things that greatly increase whities ability to steer the object ball....
Dirt, humidity, correct speed, darker colored balls (more porus, they pick up more dirt and humidity) and especially...striking whitey (outside english) along the "horizontal plane". Too much forward speed on whitey will also diminish the transfer of spin.

 

[jay helfert]

I would say "slight" rather than "extremely slight." There are two major cases where the spin transfer makes a difference on the object ball to the extent where you might not even come close to the shot you are trying if you don't include the effect:

The front ball of a frozen-ball combo goes "through" the back ball some. It can be helped to go through with draw.

A banked ball can have its banking angle changed by up to five degrees by spin transfer. That's over half a diamond in the length of the table. As pointed out above, this allows you to bank around obstacles.

For once, I totally agree with BJ. Drinks are on me!
Another interesting effect of "transfer" is when you cross a ball on a bank shot. The cue ball (and its mass) will actually impart some slight "throw" to the object ball, changing the angle of the bank.

 

[jay helfert]

Oh yeah and a big shout out to Gary Helgeson who has been working with me for a few years now. He took a lesson from Paul Portier sp? and suggested I take one as well. Paul's one lesson had a BIG impact on my game.

If you are in Washington and want Paul's # pm me. He has actually played professional pool tournaments.

Paul is only one of the best tournament players to come out of Canada in the last 20 years.

 

[perfectpocketz]

That's not what I said.
If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. Now you have pissed me off. Get your stories straight.

Ok, now I'm not pissed anymore. Have fun with this...,..SPF=randyg

Randy, no hard feelings but, you told me in Atlanta that the cue ball does
not transfer english to the object ball.
I said I could not believe that you would believe that.

You said that you have the biggest pool school and,your people have
studied the cue ball and, object ball. The english does not transfer.

You also told me I should come and take a lesson. I could learn
how it doesn't happen. I'm not saying your not a good instructor.

You have been around pool a long time. I truly hope this is my
miss understanding.

Looks like I got some blood pressure up on this thread!!!!!!!!

Now the story is straight!!!!

English will and always will transfer to the object ball.

Hope we're still friends!!! (LOL)

Mark Gregory

 

[perfectpocketz]

For once, I totally agree with BJ. Drinks are on me!
Another interesting effect of "transfer" is when you cross a ball on a bank shot. The cue ball (and its mass) will actually impart some slight "throw" to the object ball, changing the angle of the bank.

Again thanks Jay, I'm starting to feel like I know what I'm talking
about. (LOL) Don't ever tell a bank pool player there is no
transfer. Now this is the kind of thread we need more of.

Not to knock any instructors but, maybe give some insight on some-
things that may help People understand the cue ball better.

Jay, we need you to run a tournament in Atlanta for us.
John that owns the Pool Room will be in touch I'm sure.

Good luck
Mark Gregory

 

[softshot]

I am really surprised at how this discussion is progressing.

the spin transfer is minimal??

I have a drill I practice frequently...

cue ball on the head spot, object ball on the center spot

My aim point is dead straight to the center diamond on the foot rail

by varying the english on the cueball and if I am in good stroke I can sink the object ball in ANY of the six pockets.. I shoot them in rotation around the table.

if the transfered spin to the object ball is minimal or non existent my drill is impossible... but I know its possible because I have done it.. twice a week for over a year..


edit: beginners should start by using just the cue ball and spinning it into all six pockets. once you can do that then add the OB

 

[Luxury]

Earlier I was talking about putting draw on an object ball to make a legitimate shot so I decided to film myself shooting it.

The gold 8 ball is WAY above the side pocket and the tangent line would go 5-6 inches above the side pocket without the topspin on the cue ball. The 8 ball immediately gets lots of backspin on it. (The more weight in front of it the better.)

Set this shot up yourself if my video isn't clear and sit back and love pool even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX2OKcbjojU

 

[enzo]

i have to vote for yourself hands down, that's right -- YOU!!

 

[Matt_24]

I've taken lessons with Max Eberle and Jimmy Reid. Both were outstanding.

 

[Paul Mon]

Other things that greatly increase whities ability to steer the object ball....
Dirt, humidity, correct speed, darker colored balls (more porus, they pick up more dirt and humidity) and especially...striking whitey (outside english) along the "horizontal plane". Too much forward speed on whitey will also diminish the transfer of spin.

The room I go to routinely polish the balls. While these balls are clean and shiny the wax is clingy (is that a real word?). These balls throw much more than most people are used to. At this room you will also see the cue ball skid more often, particularly when using follow. It take some getting used to but these balls throw very easy and much more than most people are used to. The standard one pocket shot, 2 balls frozen one the head spot is a good example. At this hall you can almost bank the second ball one rail in to the corner pocket at the foot end.

Paul Mon