Johnnyt said:
I would think the best money player would NOT be the best player, great gamblers are in their own league, just like great players.
Best Money Player Alive Today
- Thread starter Cannonball55
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I would think the best money player would NOT be the best player, great gamblers are in their own league, just like great players.
CrownCityCorey said:Perhaps I misstated my position. Having been to Chinese Taipei (Taiwan at the time), I also watched many of them: Yang, Kuo, Wu, Chao, Chang, and many others. I have personally played Pei Wei Chang before as well. Fong Pang Chao was the only one of note, IMO. He's interesting (demeanor), but none impressed me. Not even Wu, 'cept he's a yungsta!
Mostly, I meant, I have seen none gamble, except an older guy (looked like it) that Robb Saez played in Vegas. He was outmatched by Robb.
Those guys oughtta get out west more often
It was pretty cool out there at the time - 2004. Lots of pool fans & enthusiasts. Mr. Tu had certainly worked hard to make pocket billiards a respected sport among the people. I saw the possibilities and future while I was there.
The Taiwanese are right about on par with the Phillipines in terms of worldbeaters. Most Filipinos that have competed with them in the asian 9ball tours will probably admit that.
Cool Customer
I may not be old enough or have seen all there is to see, but I know good when I see good. I heard something about Greg Stevens and just about every single person in Tulsa will agree that he was probably the strongest player who ever wielded a cue. I play right next to Buddy Hall every single day and I even play him on occasion, but when it comes to the actual bigtime gamble, I've never seen anyone as intensely focused and as 'machine-like' as James Walden. I watched him beat Danny Harriman while having a cocktail. I also remember 'Fat Randy Wallace'. He was somethin else too. WAS, that is. Anyways, I've seen James play Gabe and if Gabe missed, he might concede with five or six balls on the table. I've also seen a whole lot of other good players from around here who are super good ten speed players who just don't play like themselves when they play him in tournaments.
I've seen the Filipinos play and they got game cause they gamble against each other all day long, everyday. The Palace used to be like that, but those days are gone. When I see someone like Efren, Busti, Dennis, Alex play, I don't see the same table presence as I see when I watch James. David Matlock is also on the top of my list. As far as Filipinos, I have always loved Busti and his style of play. He is just as confident as can be and he plays really smart too. Anymore though, I am liking Gabe more and more especially after watching him destroy Nick Varner at that last One Pocket Tournament.
crawfish said:
I may not be old enough or have seen all there is to see, but I know good when I see good. I heard something about Greg Stevens and just about every single person in Tulsa will agree that he was probably the strongest player who ever wielded a cue. I play right next to Buddy Hall every single day and I even play him on occasion, but when it comes to the actual bigtime gamble, I've never seen anyone as intensely focused and as 'machine-like' as James Walden. I watched him beat Danny Harriman while having a cocktail. I also remember 'Fat Randy Wallace'. He was somethin else too. WAS, that is. Anyways, I've seen James play Gabe and if Gabe missed, he might concede with five or six balls on the table. I've also seen a whole lot of other good players from around here who are super good ten speed players who just don't play like themselves when they play him in tournaments.
I've seen the Filipinos play and they got game cause they gamble against each other all day long, everyday. The Palace used to be like that, but those days are gone. When I see someone like Efren, Busti, Dennis, Alex play, I don't see the same table presence as I see when I watch James. David Matlock is also on the top of my list. As far as Filipinos, I have always loved Busti and his style of play. He is just as confident as can be and he plays really smart too. Anymore though, I am liking Gabe more and more especially after watching him destroy Nick Varner at that last One Pocket Tournament.
Keith McCready.....
I'll second for McCready. At least during my years of pool.:thumbup:JAM said:
JB Cases said:I am going to go with Alex THE LION Pagulayan. He weighs 110 pounds and 109 of it is HEART.
I have never seen or heard of him backing down from anyone at any time. If he is staked he plays his heart out - if he is loser and the backers pull up then he digs in his pocket to keep going.
And no one goes looking for him to play some.
I heard that the Taiwanese guy is the money king and all but he doesn't have to like it playing Alex. Have they ever matched up? What's the record between them?
(dammit Mike, you're ahead of me)
I happened to be in Canada some years ago and went looking for him...I found him, and he found my wallet. It was a great time and the room was packed when the locals found out he had out of town action.
Live long and play strong,
-Chicagomike
deadgearplyr said:
No disrespect....But are you surprized that a young gun with old vet seasoning "destroyed" Nick Varner? C'mon, no doubt Nick was a champion in his day and is a highly respected player, but he isn't the Nick of old.
I just think it's kinda out of line to base Gabe's one hole game on a match with Nick Varner.
Live long and play strong,
-Chicagomike
In 1994 Nick went to the phillipines with Hal Mix and played Efren until Efren quit. When asked why, Efren said "He never miss."chicagomike said:
A very interesting evaluation of American pool. When you see world beaters playing in Fast Eddies tournaments, you have to wonder how the hell anyone makes a living at it. If you go to the Phillipines for a year just to see how good you can be, you've got the nads of a rhino.john schmidt said:
Iam going to go out on a limb, but i watched scott frost and when money was on the light he zoned and was un shaken!! older days i watched cornbred red spank mccready for a very large sum! and of course Me!!!! lol the only running i do when money is on the line is my mouth LOL Bill
john schmidt said:
Not trying to get on your good side John but this is exactly the same thing I posted years ago and it's true. American players are too separated geographically and I want to add that we seem to have much more of a hustling mentality that makes us try to get the nuts when we match up.
I have rarely been in a pool room where the players aren't spending more time woofing and trying to get the nuts instead of just matching up and playing. It seems as if our pool culture thrives on getting the best of it before a ball is struck.
If you or any other American pro had a steady sponsorship that allowed you to travel to the big events and paid you enough to live on then I would say that Manilla is the way to go.
You're right, the Americans are tough to beat even as it is. It's not as if the Filipinos or the Taiwanese are superhuman. It's the fact that they have a high concentration of world beaters who are in constant competition with each other and thus push each other to stay in stroke.
hi
good observation i totally agree. and also im trying to get on your good side all this woofing with people on here has worn me out. i need friends too ya know.take careJB Cases said:
Alive today?
Probably Alex. Who else would chase down someone playing as damn strong as Shane was playing recently and end up taking him down?
Wu and Yang may be the best players in Asia and brutal to beat on their home turf, but they need to prove themselves here before I give them full credit.
In the last 50 years the biggest scores I've heard about are Keith's 375,000 win at $25k a game, Freddies big hustle where he won low six figures, Kid Delicious winning over 300 grand on the road. Robert Byrne has a story where Allen Hopkins beats a guy out of 90 grand and then the guy takes him out to dinner.
Whoever took down the whale in Detroit at the rack in its heyday is probably the overall leader. I have no idea who that might be. I know Cornbread and Searcy did well, but didn't some millionaire dump tens of millions in that hall?
Probably Alex. Who else would chase down someone playing as damn strong as Shane was playing recently and end up taking him down?
Wu and Yang may be the best players in Asia and brutal to beat on their home turf, but they need to prove themselves here before I give them full credit.
In the last 50 years the biggest scores I've heard about are Keith's 375,000 win at $25k a game, Freddies big hustle where he won low six figures, Kid Delicious winning over 300 grand on the road. Robert Byrne has a story where Allen Hopkins beats a guy out of 90 grand and then the guy takes him out to dinner.
Whoever took down the whale in Detroit at the rack in its heyday is probably the overall leader. I have no idea who that might be. I know Cornbread and Searcy did well, but didn't some millionaire dump tens of millions in that hall?
Very good observation
I think you're right on the money here. the atmosphere of American pool/gambling is very different now. I also agree constant action hones your skills as much (maybe more) than BIG action. How much of a role do you think playing on your "own" as opposed to being staked has on a players game. Do you think the pretty much non existent "road" trips have changed American pool? do you think locking horns with an unknown in some dark seedy poolroom as opposed to a 20k race to 100 where everyone knows the players,the line and is streamed around the world, has to have some effect on a players stones?
just wondering...
I think you're right on the money here. the atmosphere of American pool/gambling is very different now. I also agree constant action hones your skills as much (maybe more) than BIG action. How much of a role do you think playing on your "own" as opposed to being staked has on a players game. Do you think the pretty much non existent "road" trips have changed American pool? do you think locking horns with an unknown in some dark seedy poolroom as opposed to a 20k race to 100 where everyone knows the players,the line and is streamed around the world, has to have some effect on a players stones?
just wondering...
john schmidt said:
bud green said:
thats true, but i dont think they have any incentive to even come over to play. the travelling expenses are too much and theres more prize money where they are anyways. there's also more sponsorship too. cuz if the us open cant get them to come over then i dont think anything but the wpc will..and since that doesnt look like it'll be hosted in the US any time soon, the only way they'll get matched up is if someone goes over there to play him. i know alex chased shane all over the US but he does live in north america so its easier for him. plus he speaks the language and knows all of the places to play. it'd be hard for wu or yang to come over here since they dont speak english and dont know where to play.
btw...to your point, the phillippines is in asia too so if they're the best in asia then based on that quote, they would be better than alex.
$40,000 for first place at the US Open is a healthy chunk of change and if the Filipinos and Japanese can come to compete for it then so can the Taiwanese.
As far as matching up goes no one is really out there hunting other top players down to match up. So even if the top Taiwanese showed up here to gamble then they would find very few takers - not because the Americans can't win - but because very few backers in the USA like to really gamble and it's a tough game. I am sure they could play cheap sets but no one is going to put up $10,000 to try what's 50/50 at best.
BUT I bet TAR could arrange it!
I really wonder if with enough time to prepare could TAR get 1000 people from around the world to pony up $25 in advance to prebuy the PayPerView?
I am in right now for Schmidt/Harriman or Alex vs. ANYONE or Wu Chia Ching or Yang vs. Anyone.
As far as matching up goes no one is really out there hunting other top players down to match up. So even if the top Taiwanese showed up here to gamble then they would find very few takers - not because the Americans can't win - but because very few backers in the USA like to really gamble and it's a tough game. I am sure they could play cheap sets but no one is going to put up $10,000 to try what's 50/50 at best.
BUT I bet TAR could arrange it!
I really wonder if with enough time to prepare could TAR get 1000 people from around the world to pony up $25 in advance to prebuy the PayPerView?
I am in right now for Schmidt/Harriman or Alex vs. ANYONE or Wu Chia Ching or Yang vs. Anyone.
androd said:
It is gone forever Rodney. To me it is incredibly sad.
I remember when a top player would make his way ito the pool room and the place would get deathly quiet. Everyone wanted to hear what he had to say or see who he was aiming at. More often than not, 75% of the room didn't even know who he was. Word got around quickly and when he matched up, everybody wanted to see and that really stirred action up, for a while.
The first time I got a glance at this was in the old Strawberry Billiards in Pasadena Tx. Kieth Thompson had won the 9 ball in Johnson City and I had seen pictures of him, but that was it. I heard guystalking and he was supposed to play old Kansas City Charlie, that night.
Rumor was Kieth hadn't played in a couple of months and then wondered in to practice. I was in a trance.
They played that night and it was no contest as Kieth went through him in no time at all. A dream was born that night.
I'll through in my vote for Kieth also
Having lived here all my life and talked to Denny Searcy and his lifelong backer many times I'll fully agree with Kieth being the top dog for many years. And I just finished watching Kiefer drill Parica in the 2003 US Open thanks to accu-stats with Jam watching and handing him a beer bottle between games and he was hillarous. Go Kieth and Jam-start playing again Kieth.--Leonard
JAM said:
Having lived here all my life and talked to Denny Searcy and his lifelong backer many times I'll fully agree with Kieth being the top dog for many years. And I just finished watching Kiefer drill Parica in the 2003 US Open thanks to accu-stats with Jam watching and handing him a beer bottle between games and he was hillarous. Go Kieth and Jam-start playing again Kieth.--Leonard